22 cheetah

[Stu R]

Anybody know any thing about this wildcat

 

[RodII]

Here is the short skinny, I have no experience with it. I remember reading about it years ago.
To me my 22-250 is enough.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_CHeetah

 

[GW Staar]

It's one of several .22 wildcats based on the .308 or .243. Actually it was based on the .308 BR......just a little different.

More popular was the .22-243 win. and the .22-243 Middlestead.

I "found" a rifle abandoned in a mini-storage I bought......I at first thought it was an FN Mauser chambered in .243 Winchester, but when I tried to load a round, found that it wouldn't chamber.......then I found 3 or 4 rounds in a pocket of the rifle's case. They were .22 caliber! formed from 243 with the same shoulder angle of the .243. So that's what I thought I had. .22-243 Win. So I decided to make it a project to finish......it obviously wasn't finished.....pretty rough stock. So I did.....and in doing so found that the rounds I found with it didn't fit the chamber either......so I did a chamber cast of it, and found I had a .22-243 Middlestead.....differing from the Win version by a steeper angled shoulder.

I've rebuilt the rifle, but I haven't shot it yet....maybe soon, if I survive the current health problem.

I think, judging from the appearance of a short neck Snap cap below is the Win. version:

Comparison between the .22-243 Win, the .243Win, and the .308. below:

My chamber cast showing the Middlestead shoulder compared to the Win. shoulder.


The FN Mauser's stock was really rounded....unusual but pleasing to me....and so very light. I'll stick a picture in this post (most purists won't like the round...but I'd have to buy a new stock to rebuild that....not going to happen:


Yeah! a set trigger....and a hair trigger.!

 

[FROGO207]

And I thought my 22-250 was GTG. Now I need to do some more research on this. GW Star cool rifle. And I thought buying a firearm because of finding a bunch of brass at the range so I could use it was out there.

 

[GW Staar]

And I thought my 22-250 was GTG. Now I need to do some more research on this. GW Star cool rifle. And I thought buying a firearm because of finding a bunch of brass at the range so I could use it was out there.

Yes, I did the research after the discovery, yes it's "out there" at more than 4000 fps possible.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.22-243.html

The Cheetah version has an interesting caseforming video out there:


If I just wanted to build one today, I would just have it chambered to .22-243 Win, with the 28 degree shoulder. Then you don't have to fireform....just get a set of dies and load. Why? Fireforming wastes barrels.....and these are barrel burners anyway, like the Swift and the .22-250. Why waste barrel life, when the performance difference isn't enough to spit on, except maybe to support a longer heavier bullet? Which IMO defeats the purpose. If you load a bigger bullet, just load a .243. ANY version of this wildcat with a small 55 to 60 grain bullet is a laser......and damned fun according to every owner I've come across.

Both Redding and RCBS make die sets for Cheetahs, .22-243's in each version last I looked. My Middlestead sized leaves a slight roundness in the bottom shoulder edge (reminds me of Weatherby brass), but not enough that I want to fire form with cream of wheat. I'll just load it and the first pass through at the target will finish forming and hit the target in a very fun way at the same time....no plastering the air with a newspaper wad for me.

Picture below is a round loaded by Huntinfool for his Middlestead .22-243..... shoots okay.....

 

[Stu R]

I have dies and about 75 loaded rounds

 

[GW Staar]

On pins and needles!.....Tell us about your rifle, your experience loading and shooting it, accuracy, load data you use......pictures.....etc. Sounds fun!

 

[DocRock]

If you are "burning barrels" fireforming, you're doing it wrong.

12 grains shotgun powder, fill to neck base with cornmeal, fill neck with Black Powder lube. Shoot. Done. No perceivable impact on barrel life.

 

[Jim Watson]

Looks like a light barrel. Maybe for the High Velocity Hunter, the sort who used to hunt Scottish stag with a .220 Swift and tiger with a .280 Ross.

 

[Offfhand]

The .22 CHeetah is one of my favorite wildcats and I've been shooting and loading it for a bunch of years. There are at least two versions of the CHeetah: Mk I and Mk II, I've tried them both and prefer the Mk I with the sharper shoulder, but both run like a laser. The CHeetah was developed around the Remington .308 BR case with small primer. Remington no longer offers that configuration but Lapua does. Which I will use when my supply of Remington brass is exhausted. RCBS and Redding offer dies sets for necking down the .30 cal neck to .22. I use the RCBS dies which work fine. The CH-eetah, stands for the two guys who did the developing. I fire-form new cases with full power loads, which get about .220 Swift velocity and thus excellent for crows. woodchucks and similar targets. After which, the formed cases are ready to be loaded more spectacular performance. When Ed Shilen was alive and running his operation he supplied finished .22 CHeetah rifles with Shilen actions, barrels and stocks that performed with benchrest level accuracy, like the one shown here. I've also tinkered with rifles in .6mm and 6.5mm CHeetah chamberings. Attached pics are CHeetah Mk I & Mk II, RCBS case forming set and Shilen .22 CHeetah rifle....

 

[mljdeckard]

If your pleasure is to just get pure Ricky-Bobby more speed...do what you want. It's just a barrel.

I grew up with some guys whose dad was a Mauser tinkerer, and he built each of them a CHetah. They took them up to the mountain meadows and zapped pot-gut squirrels with them. I thought it was the coolest idea until I heard of a 22-250. Someone pointedly asked me, what is it a CHetah can do that a 22-250 can't do? I had no idea. I still don't. I inherited a 22-250 from my dad when he died, and I just gave it to my brother when I built a .243 AR-10.

So, I regard it as a fun exercise in building a rifle and forming brass. But there's nothing I would use one for that I wouldn't use a more conventional cartridge for.

 

[Nature Boy]

The .22 CHeetah is one of my favorite wildcats and I've been shooting and loading it for a bunch of years. There are at least two versions of the CHeetah: Mk I and Mk II, I've tried them both and prefer the Mk I with the sharper shoulder, but both run like a laser. The CHeetah was developed around the Remington .308 BR case with small primer. Remington no longer offers that configuration but Lapua does. Which I will use when my supply of Remington brass is exhausted. RCBS and Redding offer dies sets for necking down the .30 cal neck to .22. I use the RCBS dies which work fine. The CH-eetah, stands for the two guys who did the developing. I fire-form new cases with full power loads, which get about .220 Swift velocity and thus excellent for crows. woodchucks and similar targets. After which, the formed cases are ready to be loaded more spectacular performance. When Ed Shilen was alive and running his operation he supplied finished .22 CHeetah rifles with Shilen actions, barrels and stocks that performed with benchrest level accuracy, like the one shown here. I've also tinkered with rifles in .6mm and 6.5mm CHeetah chamberings. Attached pics are CHeetah Mk I & Mk II, RCBS case forming set and Shilen .22 CHeetah rifle....View attachment 867978 View attachment 867979 View attachment 867980

Couple of questions

What’s the difference between the .308BR and .308 Palma brass?

Do you need to have your gunsmith on speed dial for barrel replacements?

And note to THR administrators. We need a special section dedicated to @Offfhand ’s toy collection

 

[Blue68f100]

I had some 308BR brass years ago and what I remember is the brass was lighter/thinner and had small primer pockets. The thin brass allowed for more powder....

Not for simi-auto so I gifted it to a friend starting out that had a bolt gun.

 

[GW Staar]

Wonder why the CHeeta boys made the Mk II. Maybe some complaints about the need for fire forming.....or maybe case longevity. The MK II's shoulder angle looks close to the original .308/.243......certainly similar to the .22-243Win wildcat, excepting the CHeeta's small primers. Wonder if the primer size limits powder choices .....especially the MK I?

Couple of questions
Do you need to have your gunsmith on speed dial for barrel replacements?

I think all of these 22 wildcats are lasers and burn barrels fast..... but that Mk I....geeze, straight as a stove pipe...no tapering at all. It must be tops in the barrel burning category....maybe that's why they made the MK II.

When I was trying to make loads for the .22-243 Middlestead, I found load data as rare as hens teeth. For any of them.

 

[Nature Boy]

I had some 308BR brass years ago and what I remember is the brass was lighter/thinner and had small primer pockets. The thin brass allowed for more powder....

Not for simi-auto so I gifted it to a friend starting out that had a bolt gun.

The thinner brass is interesting. You never hear of anyone shooting .308 BR. I wonder if you can even buy it anymore.

 

[Blue68f100]

The stuff I had was made by Federal, I think it was a special run and no longer available. Have not checked though.

Google " 308BR Brass" and see what shows up.

 

[xphunter]

Used to have one.
Now a days, I would just go with a 22 Creed, and not have to worry about all of the case forming, etc...

 

[Offfhand]

What’s the difference between the .308BR and .308 Palma brass?

They are both .308 Win cases with a small primer pocket. Otherwise the difference is what it says on the base. Remington introduced their .308BR back in the '70's when small primers in larger cases was coming into vogue (Think 6PPC and you get the idea. At that time the .308 Win. was the "standard" caliber in high power rifle competition and Remington responded to requests from many competitors, (including myself) for small primer .308 brass. A lot of us used it for a few years, and it was mainly successful but of no particular advantage over large primer ammo was ever proven. Plus the fact that the small primer had ignition problems with some powders, especially spherical, in cold weather. Remington also offered experimental brass with no flash holes to the few of us who wanted to experiment with different(smaller) flash holes. Back then gun and ammo makers tended to be more in tune with shooters, and more cooperative, than now. Remington followed up on the small primer concept with their 7mmBR and 6mmBR brass and ammo, which is another story. And as the Remington .308BR brass being "thinner" this AM I weighed some of it, and compared with standard Winchester .308 brass. The Remington BR brass averaged 156 grs and the Win was 161 grs. Obviously, the 5gr difference is insignificant, and can even occur in lot differences of same caliber and brand..
And as to difference in CHeetah MkI and MkII, I heard that a rifle maker (Ruger) was once considering offering rifles in .22 CHeetah, and Remington may have intended to make ammo, with the MkII presumably being easier to manufacture. I always get a chuckle about "barrel burners", but it's simply a relative comparison: A .30/06 is a barrel burner compared to .30/30, and so is a .22-250 compared to a .223 Rem. Same with .22 CHeetah, so how many rounds before it begins missing a prairie dog's head at 300 yards? I'm tired of typing, but here's a photo of some of my remaining supply of .308BR Rem. brass...

 

[Nature Boy]

Thank you sir!!

 

[Legionnaire]

I looked briefly at the CHeetah before deciding on 22-250 Ackley.

All these cool toys! I really need a range day. Work and weather seem to have conspired against me lately!

 

[Nature Boy]

I looked briefly at the CHeetah before deciding on 22-250 Ackley.

All these cool toys! I really need a range day. Work and weather seem to have conspired against me lately!

Your 22-250 AI build is cool enough

 

[Legionnaire]

Your 22-250 AI build is cool enough

Thanks. Just need time to shoot the durn thing!