.22 Mag or .17 HMR semi?

[Browning]

I'm interested in getting either a semi-auto .22 Mag or a semi-auto .17 HMR.

For whatever reason ammunition for the .17 HMR is both more available and a little bit less expensive per rd than the .22 Mag/WMR. On the various ammunition search engines (gunbot, ammoseek and wikiarms) .22 mag is 0.24 cents at its least expensive and .17 HMR is 0.19 cents a rd at its least expensive.

Getting a semi-auto .17 HMR pretty much means buying a Savage A17. There are a couple other semi .17's around, but those pretty much require buying a .22 Mag rifle and getting it greatly customized or buying a custom Volquartsen semi from the beginning which is $1,100.

https://www.volquartsen.com/tags/8-volquartsen-rimfire-rifles,15-complete-firearms,18-17-hmr

Screw all that.

Here's a comparison of the CZ 512 vs the Savage A22 (the Savage in .22 Mag vs the .17, still pretty much the same gun).





I wish that they had the CZ 512 in .17 HMR, but they don't. Hell, if I'm going to be making wishes in regards to rim fire mags (and not a billion dollar winning lottery ticket) I'd wish that they still made the CZ Brno ZKM-611 and that they offered that in .17 HMR ... but they don't. When I worked at AZ Sportsman in the late 90's they had one of those and I fondled it just about every day. Wish I'd bought it. If I remember right it was like $279 bucks. Now they're $1k to $1,100 bucks ... But I digress.

As far as the actual rifle I don't like the way the Savage A17 looks or feels, but it does seem to be both reliable and accurate.



Other .22 Mag rifles are the Magnum Research .22 Mag. It's basically a copy of the Ruger .22 Mag (which is no longer in production) and some of their models have a carbon fiber bull barrel. I've heard varying things about the reliability on those though. Plus you're limited to >40 grain bullets. Other YouTube videos have shown some examples of Magnum Research rimfire model rifles as having extractor problems. So not so sure about those.

So if I get a .22 Mag it'll probably be a CZ 512 and it'll just be the wood stock model since with the Tactical model you have to take off the rail to get to the barrel and action each and every time you clean it.

Skip to 4:40 of this video to see the disassembly of the CZ 512 Tactical



Another option for a .22 Mag rifle would be the Kel-Tec CMR-30. Advantages of that would be that it has a collapsible stock and a 30 rd mag.



The use of either one of these rifles would be some high powered plinking. Sort of like how I used to use the M1 Carbine that I had. Something with more pop than a .22LR, but less than a .223 Rem or 7.62x39.

Probably wouldn't ever hunt with it.

So looking to nail the caliber down. Which one do you think? .22 Mag or the .17 HMR?

 

[Olympus]

For the simple fact of ammo availability, I would go with the 17HMR. 22WMR is rare as hens teeth from a dealer perspective.

 

[chicharrones]

I don't see .22WMR locally, but I can find it online. So, I'd be getting the wood stocked CZ. That's a nod to the rifle more than a nod to .22WMR.

I think th KelTec would be really cool, but I know I'd blow through tons more ammo with the KelTec's magazine capacity compared to the CZ. If blowing through ammo is the goal, I'd have to step up to something in 5.56 considering the price parity to .22WMR.

 

[Browning]

Yeah, that's the thing ... I'm not seeing much .22 mag on the shelves locally either. Went online and it's there, but a bit more expensive.

.17 HMR however IS on the shelves. Don't like the Savage as much as the CZ though. Might come down to simple ammunition availability.

Another AR is a no go, got enough already.

 

[chicharrones]

Another AR is a no go, got enough already.

Understood.

I'm partial to .22WMR as I already have two guns chambered for it. A revolver and a bolt gun.

The CZ 512 is the auto loader that gets me interested. What would be more interesting to me would be the CZ512 Carbine with the shorter barrel and higher stock comb for optics use, but it's only built for .22LR, I believe.

 

[mshootnit]

ive been a fan of 17 hmr since a friend let me shoot 200yd gongs with a scoped pistol.

 

[Dog Soldier]

I have never used a .17 Rimfire. I have a friend that shoots the "Big" Wyoming Antelope Jack Rabbits with the .17. He keeps his shots under 100 yards. I have had my Bruno ZKM 611 TD Semi Auto .22 Mag for the past 20 years.
I just like the the ZKM 611 and the .22 Mag. round. The magazines for the 611 are going for $300 bucks each on Gun Broker. I paid $350 for my rifle with 4 magazines and 250 rounds of ammo. Even a blind sow finds an acorn some times.

 

[Varminterror]

At $400 for the base model and $550 for the thumbhole A17, you're not out much if you don't like it and resell it later. I'd personally opt for the laminate stock, or the thumbhole laminate model. OR if Boyd's is making a Pro-Varmint stock for the A17, I'd buy the base model and upgrade to that, as it's one of my favorite stock profiles (like a poor man's wannabe Mac A5).

I'm very tempted to buy the A17 myself. I have a bunch of 17HMR's, don't really need another one, had one of the Volquartsen 17's when they were really cranking them out (before we realized you'd blow cases like firecrackers), but the A17 is really tempting. I'm holding out for a stainless steel version - when that happens, I know I'll own one!

 

[Bartojc]

FWIW about 10 or so years ago I was faced with the decision of .22 WMR or .17 HMR. I had my mind set on the .17 and then at the last minute bought the .22. I've since bought another .22 WMR. I guess I'm old school, the .22 WMR just seems right. I'd still like a .17 in a bolt action some day.

-Jeff

 

[Browning]

The CZ 512 is the auto loader that gets me interested. What would be more interesting to me would be the CZ512 Carbine with the shorter barrel and higher stock comb for optics use, but it's only built for .22LR, I believe.

Yeah, I do like the CZ 512 a great deal better. And I mean a great deal. Always been a big fan of CZ guns as well. They're pretty much my favorite foreign manufacturer. Everyone can keep their Sigs and H&K pistols, I'll take CZ. I like their rifles as well, just slightly less experience. Only ever owned two of their rifles.

If it was just about the rifles and ammunition availability and price between the two calibers was exactly the same this thing would be a done deal, would have already bought the CZ 512. It's not though. A rifle is kind of useless if you can't find ammo.

I mean it is available online, but I've done the whole 'ammo for this caliber is only available online' thing before with a couple calibers and then end result was that the gun got shot less.

Just wondering why such a drought still for the .22 Mag, mean it's not the .22LR where literally everyone has one. That would also kind of suck if I bought the Savage and within a couple months ammo for the CZ became widely available again.

ive been a fan of 17 hmr since a friend let me shoot 200yd gongs with a scoped pistol.

Beside ammo availability and price that is another thing that I definitely appreciate about the .17 HMR over the .22 Mag. Was looking at the drop at 200 yards and the .17 has exactly half the drop that the .22 mag does. At 200y most of the .22 Mag loads have roughly 20" inches of drop while the three .17 HMR loads listed are roughly at 10" inches of drop at the same distance.

http://www.mcarbo.com/22-wmr-ballistics-chart.aspx

http://www.mcarbo.com/17-hmr-ballistics-chart.aspx

I have never used a .17 Rimfire. I have a friend that shoots the "Big" Wyoming Antelope Jack Rabbits with the .17. He keeps his shots under 100 yards. I have had my Bruno ZKM 611 TD Semi Auto .22 Mag for the past 20 years.
I just like the the ZKM 611 and the .22 Mag. round. The magazines for the 611 are going for $300 bucks each on Gun Broker. I paid $350 for my rifle with 4 magazines and 250 rounds of ammo. Even a blind sow finds an acorn some times.

Jeeze, just gotta rub salt in my wounds and show yours off.

Very nice rifle, wish I bought one (as well as 10 mags) when I had the chance.

At $400 for the base model and $550 for the thumbhole A17, you're not out much if you don't like it and resell it later. I'd personally opt for the laminate stock, or the thumbhole laminate model. OR if Boyd's is making a Pro-Varmint stock for the A17, I'd buy the base model and upgrade to that, as it's one of my favorite stock profiles (like a poor man's wannabe Mac A5).

I'm very tempted to buy the A17 myself. I have a bunch of 17HMR's, don't really need another one, had one of the Volquartsen 17's when they were really cranking them out (before we realized you'd blow cases like firecrackers), but the A17 is really tempting. I'm holding out for a stainless steel version - when that happens, I know I'll own one!

It does seem like an accurate and reliable rifle. The stock was the main thing that I don't much like about the rifle though. Felt cheap.

Also saw that Boyd's was making a few different stocks for them. That both helps and hurts it in my mind. It helps in that at least there are other options for it, but it hurts in that the stock is so cheaply made and feels crappy enough that I'd have to spend extra and replace it right when I got it. Apparently I'm not alone in that regard, that seems to be a theme with many who buy the Savage A17.

FWIW about 10 or so years ago I was faced with the decision of .22 WMR or .17 HMR. I had my mind set on the .17 and then at the last minute bought the .22. I've since bought another .22 WMR. I guess I'm old school, the .22 WMR just seems right. I'd still like a .17 in a bolt action some day.

Yeah. I'll probably end up with both eventually, but it's either one or the other for at least a couple years.

If I did buy the Savage for the caliber and ammunition availability I wonder if by then that CZ would still be making the 512 or if they'd phase that out like they did with the ZKM-611. That would suck skipping out on two CZ .22 Mag rifles that were then both phased out.

This does kinda suck. As far as the actual rifle goes I like the CZ 512 much better, but as far as the caliber goes I like the 17 HMR better.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[chicharrones]

Personally, I'm betting on .22WMR to become common on shelves again. 2017? 2018?

I believe this because it used to be common on shelves before and I believe manufacturers will get caught up at some point. It has happened with other cartridges in the past that are considered common. .22LR had this problem fairly recently and .380 ACP had this problem several years ago.

I also like the ammo weight availability in the .22WMR. You can go down to the speedier 30 grain ammo or go up to 45 grain. Zero the gun accordingly. I pretty much zero my .22 WMR rifle for 100 yards with the faster ammo, and keep the slower .22 WMR for my revolver.

I noticed those links provided show zeros of 50 yards for the .17 and the .22 mags. Even though a 100 yard zero won't make up for 200 yard bullet drops, it does make the .22WMR easier to shoot from the "muzzle" all the way to 125 yards or so. Especially with the speedy 30 grain ammo.

 

[Olympus]

The trend seems to be 22LR and 22WMR ammo comes and goes in waves. It's here, then it disappears. And at the while, the 17HMR is always here. I own a 22WMR and I like it, but I don't want to get caught in a position to need ammo and be in a trend where it's not available and everyone and their brother is fighting for it online only. And I don't like having to pay more than I should for something.

The 22WMR hits harder and would be a better choice for hunting, but the 17HMR will be more accurate and cheaper.

One other thing to consider is that when I buy a new rimfire rifle, I like to buy one or two boxes of several brands of ammo to see which one shoots the best in my gun.
That's going to be near impossible for the 22WMR for a long time. You'll be stuck with only one, maybe two brands for a while. Whereas the 17HMR has pretty much every brand available to try out. Just some food for thought.

 

[Varminterror]

Also saw that Boyd's was making a few different stocks for them. That both helps and hurts it in my mind. It helps in that at least there are other options for it, but it hurts in that the stock is so cheaply made and feels crappy enough that I'd have to spend extra and replace it right when I got it. Apparently I'm not alone in that regard, that seems to be a theme with many who buy the Savage A17.

I actually kind of appreciate Savage offers low cost rifles with crappy stocks. Only way it would be better is if they offered the barreled action with no stock at all for even lower cost. Whether Boyd's, Microfit, Mcree, McMillan, JAE, or Macon, very few of my rifles actually wear the stock they came with from factory. When they put a $30-50 stock on it, it's kinda like having the option to have no stock, but at least with the option to test drive while I wait for the new stock to get delivered. In that light, I don't really care what the factory one feels like - as long as the action and hardware aren't cheaply made, the stock is going away anyway, so it doesn't bother me.

 

[Browning]

Personally, I'm betting on .22WMR to become common on shelves again. 2017? 2018?

I believe this because it used to be common on shelves before and I believe manufacturers will get caught up at some point. It has happened with other cartridges in the past that are considered common. .22LR had this problem fairly recently and .380 ACP had this problem several years ago.

That'd be pretty sweet. Just kind of wondering when it's actually going to happen. I thought the same thing about .22LR ammo and it took 3 years+ before it came back with some sort of regularity. Even now I can't go to every store and expect that they'll always have some. Now that I've been keeping an eye out for .22 mag it appears that it's same story.

That'd be a long time to wait in order to shoot a rifle that I bought because of a lack of ammunition availability.

I also like the ammo weight availability in the .22WMR. You can go down to the speedier 30 grain ammo or go up to 45 grain. Zero the gun accordingly. I pretty much zero my .22 WMR rifle for 100 yards with the faster ammo, and keep the slower .22 WMR for my revolver.

Yeah, noticed that.

If I did use this for small game hunting I guess that might make a difference.

I noticed those links provided show zeros of 50 yards for the .17 and the .22 mags. Even though a 100 yard zero won't make up for 200 yard bullet drops, it does make the .22WMR easier to shoot from the "muzzle" all the way to 125 yards or so. Especially with the speedy 30 grain ammo.

A standard shot for this rifle would be somewhere between 25 yards and 150. Probably wouldn't see much use at 200.

Flatter shooting at 200 yards with a rim fire is just sort of nice to have, but so long as it'll reach that far accurately and I have my drops taped to the stock or glued inside the lens cap or I know what they are I'm good.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

FWIW: This is purely a fun gun in my view, so get the cheaper/available ammo gun. All the other arguments re the individual rounds are superfluous to that one fact. Now, it you really want a deadly accurate gun, get yourself a Hornet bolt gun with a great scope and forget this other stuff...but that's not what you're asking for here, so get the .17HMR.

YMMV,
Greg

 

[Browning]

One other thing to consider is that when I buy a new rimfire rifle, I like to buy one or two boxes of several brands of ammo to see which one shoots the best in my gun.
That's going to be near impossible for the 22WMR for a long time. You'll be stuck with only one, maybe two brands for a while. Whereas the 17HMR has pretty much every brand available to try out. Just some food for thought.

Well, judging from what's available online on those 3 search engines I mentioned earlier it looks like it would be kind of a pain in the ass and I might have to order it from several stores. Looks doable though.

Got any ammo and grain weight recommendations on .22 Mag?

 

[Browning]

I actually kind of appreciate Savage offers low cost rifles with crappy stocks. Only way it would be better is if they offered the barreled action with no stock at all for even lower cost. Whether Boyd's, Microfit, Mcree, McMillan, JAE, or Macon, very few of my rifles actually wear the stock they came with from factory. When they put a $30-50 stock on it, it's kinda like having the option to have no stock, but at least with the option to test drive while I wait for the new stock to get delivered. In that light, I don't really care what the factory one feels like - as long as the action and hardware aren't cheaply made, the stock is going away anyway, so it doesn't bother me.

I totally get what you're saying and I also appreciate when a good selection of aftermarket stocks are available for it. Sometimes I replace the stock on a rifle and sometimes I don't.

It does bug me a bit when the OEM/initial stock is that cheaply made. Just a slight difference of opinion I guess. In some cases even if I buy the rifle from the get go with the intention of replacing the stock I still shoot it as is to get a feel for it and to see if I'm correct in wanting to replace the stock until I recoup from the cost. I mean damn, at least fill the inside of the stock with some sort of foam so that it doesn't have that flex and that tinny plasticky sound to it.

That hollow stock just kinda bugs me.

 

[Browning]

FWIW: This is purely a fun gun in my view, so get the cheaper/available ammo gun. All the other arguments re the individual rounds are superfluous to that one fact. Now, it you really want a deadly accurate gun, get yourself a Hornet bolt gun with a great scope and forget this other stuff...but that's not what you're asking for here, so get the .17HMR.

Yeah, I don't see myself hunting with either the .22 Mag or the .17 HMR. I'm not really all that interested in squirrel or rabbit hunting. If I'm down at my father in laws ranch and a coyote trots on by I might pop it for him since he has cattle, but that's about it. If I'm hunting I'm almost always going after hogs and I can't see popping them with a rimfire.

I've always been somewhat interested in the .22 Hornet, kind of a cool little round. Almost bought a CZ bolt action .22 Hornet with a full Mannlicher stock at Jackson Armory in Dallas once. Nice rifle, it's just not a run of the mill cartridge that factory ammo is going to be widely available for. So after a moment to think about it sadly I handed it back.

I'd want to reload for it and with everything on my plate that's not going to happen right now.

 

[chicharrones]

Got any ammo and grain weight recommendations on .22 Mag?

Just off the top of my head, here's what I have in my .22 WMR inventory that feeds well and shoots well enough to very well. Your rifle may be different.

Hornady V-Max 30 grain. Flat shooting from 50 to 100 yards with no elevation changes needed. Very accurate in my rifle. Sub 1 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards are doable with the 2-7x32 Nikon I have.

CCI V-Max 30 grain. Flat shooting, but not quite as accurate in my rifle as the Hornady for whatever reason.

Remington 40 grain PSP. Has a good bullet profile for feeding. Accurate enough up to 100 yards, but not spectacular in my rifle. Perhaps sub 2" groups at that range.

Winchester 40 grain Super X JHP. Doesn't feed as well in my bolt gun without some effort from the bolt, but shoots acceptably well.

Hornady Critical Defense 45 grain. Works pretty well at 50 yards in my gun. It's better in my Ruger Single Six 9.5".

Winchester Dynapoint 40 grain. Crap ammo. Slow ammo. Major elevation point of impact difference compared to the rest. Actually won't chamber in my rifle, but have fired it out a Henry lever gun. I consider this non-jacketed ammo a lumpy .22LR round with a tad extra speed than .22LR. Works fine in my revolver, though.

 

[Dog Soldier]

The local Outfitters Supply has stacks of CCI .22 Mag. It is in 50 round boxes and 200 round volume pacs. The prices are $14 bucks for 50 rounds. I have not bought any .22 Mag for some time. My stash will last for some time. Anyway $14 dollars seems high?

 

[CB900F]

Browning;

I'll vote for the CZ without hesitation. For the ammo suggestions, go to the rimfirecentral site, CZ/BRNO forum and check there.

As for the cost & availability issues, .22 magnum is available around here. True it's a sporadically available item, but with a couple of months in between shipments, not years. I don't do a whole lot of shooting with my .22 magnums, but neither do I have a problem keeping them fed.

900F

 

[chicharrones]

The local Outfitters Supply has stacks of CCI .22 Mag. It is in 50 round boxes and 200 round volume pacs. The prices are $14 bucks for 50 rounds. I have not bought any .22 Mag for some time. My stash will last for some time. Anyway $14 dollars seems high?

$14 per 50 seems to be the new normal.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Do you like chicharrones with pork fat or chicken? I like the pork belly warmed.
Thanks, I did not know what the .22 Mags were selling for. I bought up a supply when they were $4.99.