.22 VS .25
- Thread starter David N
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ducktapehero
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While neither is ideal for defense the 22 is the better stopper, OTOH it is also notorius for not working well in semi-auto pistols.
J.M.
Member
Of the two calibers, .22lr is the "deadlier".
The .25acp is absolutely pathetic!
Perhaps you should re-evaluate your selection critera to allow a larger cal. - JM.
The .25acp is absolutely pathetic!
Perhaps you should re-evaluate your selection critera to allow a larger cal. - JM.
The_Shootist
Member
.32 ACP
I really like my Kel-Tec P-32. It goes everywhere and at the range is easy on the hands and I've NEVER had a FTF/FTE from it (despite all the reputed problems with "rimlock" with JHP). Lots of fun to practice with (unlike its bigger calibre cousin in .380 the P3AT, from what I've heard.)
Its easy to maintain / strip / clean.
You just have to beware the limitations of the .32 ACP - its probably best described as an "in your face, last ditch" type gun. Mind you, according to FBI stats, 99% of confrontations will end if you (as a CCW holder) just produce a gun. Crooks aren't hero's interested in getting shot "on the job" so to speak.
Yes, there are better guns out there. Obviously its better to carry when you can a .38 or 9mm or .45 and today due to the wonders of design you have lots of concealable options in those calibers. All of which more effective than the .32 ACP.
But of interest, I think I read on this board that John Browning never saw the need for self-defense purposes of going above the .32 ACP and thats what he carried in his later years.
The winter seems long in coming here in Texas - its still in the mid 70's today. So its going to be awhile before my P-32 get relegated to "sometimes" carry from "always" carry
I really like my Kel-Tec P-32. It goes everywhere and at the range is easy on the hands and I've NEVER had a FTF/FTE from it (despite all the reputed problems with "rimlock" with JHP). Lots of fun to practice with (unlike its bigger calibre cousin in .380 the P3AT, from what I've heard.)
Its easy to maintain / strip / clean.
You just have to beware the limitations of the .32 ACP - its probably best described as an "in your face, last ditch" type gun. Mind you, according to FBI stats, 99% of confrontations will end if you (as a CCW holder) just produce a gun. Crooks aren't hero's interested in getting shot "on the job" so to speak.
Yes, there are better guns out there. Obviously its better to carry when you can a .38 or 9mm or .45 and today due to the wonders of design you have lots of concealable options in those calibers. All of which more effective than the .32 ACP.
But of interest, I think I read on this board that John Browning never saw the need for self-defense purposes of going above the .32 ACP and thats what he carried in his later years.
The winter seems long in coming here in Texas - its still in the mid 70's today. So its going to be awhile before my P-32 get relegated to "sometimes" carry from "always" carry
The P32 and P3AT make all the little .22s and .25s pretty much obsolete. However, I knew a cop shot by a pair of .25s that nearly killed him... don't discount their lethality.
I carried a P32 as a "to work and back" gun and as a backup to my .45, then upgraded to a S&W 649 .38 Special for pocket duty.
I'd get the P3AT.
I carried a P32 as a "to work and back" gun and as a backup to my .45, then upgraded to a S&W 649 .38 Special for pocket duty.
I'd get the P3AT.
Glock19Fan
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Most people who compared the .22 and .25 are comparing the muzzle energys of a .22 rifle with the 2 inch ballistics of a .25.
The fact is that out of a 2 1/2 inch barrel, the .25 can be the better choice.
The .22, being a rimfire, and having a rimmed cartridge, doesnt work as well as the .25s centerfire design.
From a 2 1/2 inch barrel, the 35 grain XTP bullet averages a hair under 1000 FPS, which is almost the exact same velocity for the lighter 32 grain Stinger .22LR.
If you have to pick between .22 and .25, I would go with the .25. Energy levels are less than 5 FPE apart, and the .25 is the more reliable one.
I would look into the .32 though.
The fact is that out of a 2 1/2 inch barrel, the .25 can be the better choice.
The .22, being a rimfire, and having a rimmed cartridge, doesnt work as well as the .25s centerfire design.
From a 2 1/2 inch barrel, the 35 grain XTP bullet averages a hair under 1000 FPS, which is almost the exact same velocity for the lighter 32 grain Stinger .22LR.
If you have to pick between .22 and .25, I would go with the .25. Energy levels are less than 5 FPE apart, and the .25 is the more reliable one.
I would look into the .32 though.
russlate
Member
G19fan nailed it, but some folks are of the kind that you can tell them, just not very much.
I had one of my 950's barrels replaced with a 4" one, with negligable difference in concealment. But when one is around, it always goes with me magazine fully loaded (8) in the gun, topped off with one in the chamber, and with 2 loaded spare mags. Not that I'm so optomistic, but why not have them in case you need them to finish the job?
I had one of my 950's barrels replaced with a 4" one, with negligable difference in concealment. But when one is around, it always goes with me magazine fully loaded (8) in the gun, topped off with one in the chamber, and with 2 loaded spare mags. Not that I'm so optomistic, but why not have them in case you need them to finish the job?
tbeb
Member
I also agree with Glock19Fan. If you consider .32 or .380 ACP then go with the .380. Over the years I've used .22, .25, .32, and .380 pocket pistols. FWIW, I now use a .38 special snubby.
Gunnutz13
Member
It's your life...
...what's it worth !? I suggest nothing smaller than a .380, and that's marginal. But having said that, it also depends on shot placement. A 22 in the eye is better than a 45 in the arm...ya know what I mean...
...what's it worth !? I suggest nothing smaller than a .380, and that's marginal. But having said that, it also depends on shot placement. A 22 in the eye is better than a 45 in the arm...ya know what I mean...
A .25 acp will penetrate the frontal plates of a human skull much more reliably than any .22 rimfire bullet when fired from a short barrel handgun.
When you decide to choose one of these two calibers for personal defense you have made the decision to shoot no farther than 10 feet and always for the head or eyes.
I totally agree with some previous posters, the Kel-Tec, Seecamp, and Beretta Tomcat pistols in .32 acp and .380 acp have pretty well made the .25/.22 caliber guns in this class all but obsolete.
When you decide to choose one of these two calibers for personal defense you have made the decision to shoot no farther than 10 feet and always for the head or eyes.
I totally agree with some previous posters, the Kel-Tec, Seecamp, and Beretta Tomcat pistols in .32 acp and .380 acp have pretty well made the .25/.22 caliber guns in this class all but obsolete.
If its between the .22 and .25, get the .25. At least it will go bang everytime unlike the .22.
That said, the .32 in the Kel Tec is better, or the .380 is better yet. I've never had a problem with mine. But, some people have problems handling the .380 in a 7 oz gun. I overload the .380 to near 9mm levels and I can hit my target with one hand. That said, you really need to practice with it to get good.
That said, the .32 in the Kel Tec is better, or the .380 is better yet. I've never had a problem with mine. But, some people have problems handling the .380 in a 7 oz gun. I overload the .380 to near 9mm levels and I can hit my target with one hand. That said, you really need to practice with it to get good.
Kramer Krazy
Member
I actually have a Taurus PT-22, so I can comment on that one.....get the Beretta equivalent, if you want a 22 between the two manufacturers. Hopefully, it is better quality. I've shot the Taurus a few times, and free-hand, I've gotten around 3-4" groups at 20 feet when trying to be more accurate. The problem I have with the gun is that the magazine follower is a screwed up design that will actually twist and ramps the bullets in a weird fashion. Anything over 6 rounds in the mag, and it has a tendancy to not feed very well. The bullets get at a weird angle in the mag. Also, I was shooting the same Remington ammo in my Ruger MKII and the Taurus, and with the Taurus, some of the bullets had to be hit with the firing pin twice for them to go off. I don't recall any primer igniting problems with the Ruger. I'm wanting to purchase another, backup, magazine for the Taurus. Maybe it will work better thn the one that came with the gun. The ammo was trash, though, as the bullets were not very well seated in the casings and were cocking at angles and causing feeding problems with my Ruger 10/22 rifles and jamming up inside the magazines. I've NEVER had a problem like this with any other ammo, so I'm figuring I got a bad batch of Remington .22 ammo.
Quickdraw Limpsalot
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I agree with the above review of the PT-22.
I own a Raging Bull in .454 and love it, so I won't make overgeneralizations about "crappy Taurus" firearms... however...
The PT-22 is junk, plain and simple. Rarely did I ever get through a clip of ammo without at least two jams. It was "neat" and tiny, but I'd take a Maglite over it in a defense situation, after having owned one. I swapped it for an old 30-30 and I'm very happy now.
[edit] I bought a 2nd clip for it and the only change was that I had twice as many jams to get through before reloading.
I own a Raging Bull in .454 and love it, so I won't make overgeneralizations about "crappy Taurus" firearms... however...
The PT-22 is junk, plain and simple. Rarely did I ever get through a clip of ammo without at least two jams. It was "neat" and tiny, but I'd take a Maglite over it in a defense situation, after having owned one. I swapped it for an old 30-30 and I'm very happy now.
[edit] I bought a 2nd clip for it and the only change was that I had twice as many jams to get through before reloading.
telomerase
Member
not all .25 slower than .22 in short barrel
Don't forget MagSafe and Glaser. If they happen to work in your gun, MagSafe is faster than Stinger.
.25 is much more powerful than all those guns in the safe, or in the police evidence locker after your ".45 bulge" wanders into a school zone or Federal building sidewalk by mistake.
Don't forget MagSafe and Glaser. If they happen to work in your gun, MagSafe is faster than Stinger.
.25 is much more powerful than all those guns in the safe, or in the police evidence locker after your ".45 bulge" wanders into a school zone or Federal building sidewalk by mistake.
cls12vg30
Member
I have a Beretta 21A in .25 that is always in my left (weak side) front pocket as a backup, it's loaded with one Magsafe in the pipe, Magsafes in the top 3 spots in the mag. The bottom 5 are FMJ's, as is the spare mag. In my experience the .25 version of the 21A feeds much more reliably than the .22 version.
When I got the .25 and held one of the cartridges up next to a .22LR, I was surprised by how visibly obvious the difference in diameter was. You wouldn't think such a small difference would be easily visible, but it's quite noticeable.
When I got the .25 and held one of the cartridges up next to a .22LR, I was surprised by how visibly obvious the difference in diameter was. You wouldn't think such a small difference would be easily visible, but it's quite noticeable.
telomerase
Member
>In my experience the .25 version of the 21A feeds much more reliably than the .22 version.
Yeah. 8+1 tiny bullets is only good if they work.
The flaw in both Berettas is that the mag release button is too high; it's easy for it to release even in a pocket holster. Everyone I know that has one ended up grinding it down.
Yeah. 8+1 tiny bullets is only good if they work.
The flaw in both Berettas is that the mag release button is too high; it's easy for it to release even in a pocket holster. Everyone I know that has one ended up grinding it down.
I went through much the same decision making process as you. Initially I went with a Beretta Bobcat 22, but it was NEVER reliable. I traded for a Beretta Jetfire in 25. This was a awesome little pistol. Never malfunctioned, & it was a little smaller than the 22. Then one day I had to shootout with a domesticated duck. I live on a waterway & it seems that someone left a bunch of domesticated (Muscovi?) ducks go free. Shortly thereafter the ducks decided to start roosting on my (& neighbors) porches. After weeks of chasing them off, calling the humane society, game commission, exterminators & being told that there was nothing they could do, I was at wits end. Finally one exterminator told me that all they would do is shoot the ducks & that if I had a 22 that I could save myself a lot of money. I checked with the Game Commission who acknowledged that this would not be illegal. Then one morning on my way to work I happened to step into about my 15th pile of crap (they they seemed to like to locate it just outside my front door as I was rushing out to work), & that was the last straw. The ducks, not being the timid type allowed me time to pull my Beretta 25 & get off one shot. It appeared that I hit one of the ducks in the back (ruffled feathers) as it walked away. After watching it continue walking toward the water & sit down just next to the water, I tried to get closer. At that point it jumped into the water and swam away apparently unwounded. About 3 days later I found it dead. Although I really liked the Jetfire pistol, I had lost all confidence in the caliber. I reckoned that if it was so ineffective against a fairly small female duck, that it probably wouldn't be all that great as self-defense round against humans . I'm not knocking the round, I think it could do in a pinch with excellent shot placement. I traded the Jetfire & bought a new P32 which makes an even better CCW pocket gun. Haven't shot anything with the 32, but would nevertheless be a little more confident with the 32 than I was with the 25 after this experience. Also in comparison, I can tell you that the 22 Stinger out of a Marlin rifle is quite effective on duck.
. I'm not knocking the round, I think it could do in a pinch with excellent shot placement. I traded the Jetfire & bought a new P32 which makes an even better CCW pocket gun. Haven't shot anything with the 32, but would nevertheless be a little more confident with the 32 than I was with the 25 after this experience. Also in comparison, I can tell you that the 22 Stinger out of a Marlin rifle is quite effective on duck.
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Wilson 17&26
Member
For a semiautomatic, I would go with the center fire ammo. If you can fire something that weights only 7.2oz (10oz loaded) without limpwristing, go for the P-3AT. It can also handle the hottest ammo you can buy.
Ex-MA Hole
Member
Have you thought about a .38 snubbie?
MICHAEL T
Member
Gey a Bersa 380 or a snub 38
If you are going for ultimate concealment, I would recommend the Kel-Tec P-32. Their extermely flat profile makes them very concealable in everything except a coin pocket. If you are looking for something more powerful, I would bump up to the group of subcompact 9mm pistols. If you are looking for ultimate reliability, then a snubby with 158gr +p LHPSWCs.
I like the P-32 so much that I now own 3 of them. I don't bother with carrying extra magazines, I go with the "New York Reload".
I like the P-32 so much that I now own 3 of them. I don't bother with carrying extra magazines, I go with the "New York Reload".
I had a PT-22, terribly unreliable. I also shot a similar Beretta - same problem. I think the 32s are the way to go if you want the smallest gun.
If you really want a 22 - then go for a NAA or Casull pocket revolver. Incredibly small but SA.
Lots of folks carry 38 SPL revolvers in their pants. Really light weights are readily available but they will cost you more.
If you really want a 22 - then go for a NAA or Casull pocket revolver. Incredibly small but SA.
Lots of folks carry 38 SPL revolvers in their pants. Really light weights are readily available but they will cost you more.
Buy two one in .22 and .25
honestly i don't think their is enough of a difference to matter. With my luck I could use the most hightech round in the world and it would fail. In small calibers I dont believe in expanding ammo, I want the penetration.
To answer your question, buy two. Practice with .22 (lots cheaper) if it malfunctions, then you get more practice. If you shoot it as much as you should then the cost of ammo will pay for the .25 after a while. I do think the .25 is inherantly more reliable. The bullet is jacketed and will not deform like a soft .22, hence better penetration. I have had a great deal of FTF with .22s and I can't recall 1 with a .25. Of course I probably shoot 20k of .22 to every one round of .25.
honestly i don't think their is enough of a difference to matter. With my luck I could use the most hightech round in the world and it would fail. In small calibers I dont believe in expanding ammo, I want the penetration.
To answer your question, buy two. Practice with .22 (lots cheaper) if it malfunctions, then you get more practice. If you shoot it as much as you should then the cost of ammo will pay for the .25 after a while. I do think the .25 is inherantly more reliable. The bullet is jacketed and will not deform like a soft .22, hence better penetration. I have had a great deal of FTF with .22s and I can't recall 1 with a .25. Of course I probably shoot 20k of .22 to every one round of .25.
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