.223 bolt action magazine question.

[Waterboy3313]

This is probably a dumb question but I'm curious. Im thinking about buying a .223 bolt action rifle. I'm not looking for anything special or specific and I am not set on one brand or model. I have a few 15s and just wanted something different. I reload .223 and my shooting is strictly paper punching and steel plates.

I'm used to handloading/reloading 223 for the AR in 55-62 grain bullets. A while back when I needed some primers there was a gimmick that required I place bullets or powder in my online shopping cart before I was allowed to add the primers I needed. So the only bullets available were 80gr HPBT. Long story short is my load data has me loading these bullets longer than what will fit a PMag. A lot longer and I really don't feel comfortable shortening the OAL to a point they will be mag length for a .223/5.56 magazine.

So my question is: Do typical bolt action rifles with non removable or non AR style magazines typically have room for cartridges with a longer OAL to accommodate the 80-90gr bullets I see listed everywhere? Or is there something I am not picking up on?

 

[LoonWulf]

This is probably a dumb question but I'm curious. Im thinking about buying a .223 bolt action rifle. I'm not looking for anything special or specific and I am not set on one brand or model. I have a few 15s and just wanted something different. I reload .223 and my shooting is strictly paper punching and steel plates.

I'm used to handloading/reloading 223 for the AR in 55-62 grain bullets. A while back when I needed some primers there was a gimmick that required I place bullets or powder in my online shopping cart before I was allowed to add the primers I needed. So the only bullets available were 80gr HPBT. Long story short is my load data has me loading these bullets longer than what will fit a PMag. A lot longer and I really don't feel comfortable shortening the OAL to a point they will be mag length for a .223/5.56 magazine.

So my question is: Do typical bolt action rifles with non removable or non AR style magazines typically have room for cartridges with a longer OAL to accommodate the 80-90gr bullets I see listed everywhere? Or is there something I am not picking up on?

My 700 had about 2.5" of magazine. AI magazines are about that as well I think I HAVE a .223 AI Ruger mag I can go measure.
Most of the guys that run those sooooper longs single load them in ARs. Some bolt guns will work with a longer COAL, some will not.

 

[CDP45]

I just purchased a Savage Axis 11. The longest I can get in the magazine is 2.425. I did not try what the OAL is in the chamber.

 

[AMraider]

My TC Dimension magazine measures 2 3/8. I also have not tried that in my chamber. My rifle loves 55 grn and it did not like 68's.

 

[stillquietvoice]

I have a savage m11 in 223, I used hornandy 68 gr hpbt match bullets at 2.255" git well in the mag but chamber limited cartridge to that length in my rifle. With the 80 gr bullets you'll likely need a faster twist rate to fully stabalize those bullets as well as a longer free bore, throat, to load to their best length.

My m11 has a 1:9 twist and shot OK but better in my 5.56 Ar 1:7 twist rifle.
The 5.56 chamber or 223 Wilde have longer throats to take advantage of slightly higher pressure of 5.56 than most 223 rem chambers. So look for a 5.56 or wylde chamber and fast 1:8 or faster to shoot those longer bullets in

 

[Waterboy3313]

So look for a 5.56 or wylde chamber and fast 1:8 or faster to shoot those longer bullets in

My 24" AR is wylde 1:8. I guess if I decide to use these I will have to hand feed it one at a time. Unfortunately the deal was what it was and these bullets were the only thing they had that were remotely close to what I thought I might be able to use.

 

[gotboostvr]

My 24" AR is wylde 1:8. I guess if I decide to use these I will have to hand feed it one at a time. Unfortunately the deal was what it was and these bullets were the only thing they had that were remotely close to what I thought I might be able to use.

You could always sell/ trade them for something that fits your use better. How many did you pick up?

 

[bigpower491]

I have an old Savage 11 in 223, no detachable mag. Theres a bit of room in the mag to load long, but this particular rifle doesn't have a lot of freebore. I think when I measured with me handy OAL gauge setup, the rifle had maybe .020" when loaded at SAAMI OAL. Not too bad for a production line rifle.
That would be something else you would need to consider.

 

[rdnktrkr]

Check around with other reloaders and see if they will trade with you, I just traded a bag of 55gr sp for the same in 68gr because someone HAD to have 55gr and couldn't find any, my guns love the 68s and when he tried a couple of mine his shoots them well also. Another option is hold them till you can get a gun that shoots them

 

[Archie]

I have a CZ 527M carbine. Mine is a 7.6239mm, but the same rifle is also offered in .223 Rem/5.56 NATO. Since they have the same actions, I presume the over all length of the magazine is the same - feed lips would have to be different, I should think. The front to rear length of the magazine I have is 2 5/16 inches or 2.3125" with my pocket tape.
I also note in the (Hornady 10) loading manual, the over all length of the 7.62x39mm round is 2.200". By the same authority, the 5.56mm NATO round is 2.250". I'm not sure the CZ 527 Rifle/carbine would do a lot better for you.

Also of note: In the Hornady 10 manual, loading data for 80 grain bullets is provided. However, it has a note saying twist rates of 1:8 are recommended for accuracy. So those bullets you mention may not work for you at all.
I have a .22-250 Remington. It shoots 55 grain bullets quite tightly and well into groups. It shoots a 70 grain Round nosed, flat based bullet adequately - 2 to 3 inches. Shoots 69 grain boat tail bullets like a full choked shotgun. The twist rate is 1:14. Commonly, .223 Rem/5.56mm NATO chambered rifles have twists for lighter bullets. Do check.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

I have a CZ 527M carbine. Mine is a 7.6239mm, but the same rifle is also offered in .223 Rem/5.56 NATO. Since they have the same actions, I presume the over all length of the magazine is the same - feed lips would have to be different, I should think. The front to rear length of the magazine I have is 2 5/16 inches or 2.3125" with my pocket tape.

Do check.

Since I have CZ527s in .223, 7.62x39 and .300 AAC in my safe, I can do this:



All three magazines are the same 2.40" external length (plus/minus a few thou for individual variations). The 7.62 differs most in width and height; the .300 AAC magazine is basically the same .223 box minus the indentations.

A Magpul .223/5.56 action proving dummy round with 2.260" OAL is a tight but functional fit in the CZ527 .223 magazine, and I wouldn't be tempted to exceed that length with this rifle.

 

[Waterboy3313]

You could always sell/ trade them for something that fits your use better. How many did you pick up?

It's been a while ago but if I remember correctly its 250 in the box. I will double check after I get home. They are made by nosler and they weren't cheap.

This box of bullets isn't my only reason for wanting a .223 bolt action rifle. I've been wanting one for a while. I was just wondering if a dedicated .223 hunting type rifle might allow me to use these.

Since I reload for the .223, I shoot at under 300 yards 99.99% of the time and all I do is target shooting I figured it would be a great option. Plus if my 12 year old wants to get back into it with me it would be something easy for him to move up to as well.

I will keep my eyes and ears open to see if anyone might be interested in these. Makes sense to stick with what I'm setup for to keep things consistent.

 

[Sniper66]

I had a guy build me an AR 15 .223. It handles Fiocchi .223 but not my hand loads. My buddy tried my hand loads in his rifle and they worked just fine. I ordered a couple of new mags from MagWarehouse and they work great with both factory ammo and my hand loads. Comparing the mags side by side is very difficult to see any difference, buyt clearly there is a difference.

 

[stillquietvoice]

My 7 yo grandson likes my m11 223 lop Is long for him, the AR fits him, adjustable stock. He hasn't used it since I put a 3-9x40 scope on it.

This box of bullets isn't my only reason for wanting a .223 bolt action rifle. I've been wanting one for a while. I was just wondering if a dedicated .223 hunting type rifle might allow me to use these.

Just research 223 twist rates for bolt actions before buying one. That was my point. I see that ruger American, and tika both make 8 twist 223's.

 

[cfullgraf]

My 24" AR is wylde 1:8. I guess if I decide to use these I will have to hand feed it one at a time.

Get a SLED (Single shot follower) for one of your magazines. It makes single shot loading of an AR-15 easy. Lots of Service Rifle competitors use them for the slow fire stages. Midway or Sinclair International (Brownell's) as well as other places should have them. I prefer the aluminum ones but there are Delrin SLED's out there as well.

My Remington XR-100 chambered in 223 Remington is a single shot, no problem feeding long cartridges.

 

[Waterboy3313]

If this works right I should have a picture of the bullet box. I stopped on my way home to buy a set of tires for my truck. I never noticed that there was a hole in the wall gun shop across the street from the tire shop.

I walked in and told the guy I was looking for a bolt action .223. He never looked up nope not going to find one and said all he had was a 223 single shot pistol. I asked him another question and he laughed at me. I walked out and figured I was done with that place.

 

[Waterboy3313]

My 7 yo grandson likes my m11 223 lop Is long for him, the AR fits him, adjustable stock. He hasn't used it since I put a 3-9x40 scope on it.

I put together an AR with a 22LR conversion kit for my son's Christmas a few years ago. I think the semi auto part of it teaches a new shooter it's ok to miss the first shot because all I have to do is pull the trigger another time or ten and I might eventually hit my target. I think with the slower follow up shot and I'm not saying a bolt action can't be pretty quick would make a young kid feel more like it's not important to try to get the best first shot off. Not only that it can take my son less than 10 seconds to empty a 10 round magazine. If I am having him shoot something that cost more to load and takes me substantial time to load I want him acting like every shot is important.

 

[Archie]

Since I have CZ527s in .223, 7.62x39 and .300 AAC in my safe, I can do this:

View attachment 968131 View attachment 968130 View attachment 968132 View attachment 968133 View attachment 968134

All three magazines are the same 2.40" external length (plus/minus a few thou for individual variations). The 7.62 differs most in width and height; the .300 AAC magazine is basically the same .223 box minus the indentations.

A Magpul .223/5.56 action proving dummy round with 2.260" OAL is a tight but functional fit in the CZ527 .223 magazine, and I wouldn't be tempted to exceed that length with this rifle.

Mr. DeLaurant, it is obvious you have information I do not have (like the other two rifles to compare). I do appreciate your information to cover my estimate.