.223 rem on whitetail deer?

[45_auto]

Proper technique is key. If someone has a problem with the recoil, they are "Doing it Wrong", surgery notwithstanding.

Hopefully you'll get to experience shoulder bursitis when you're older and wiser. Get back to us on that "proper technique" when you do.

 

[jrdolall]

I shoot a 30-06 which has been my go-to gun for umpteen years. I have never felt the recoil when shooting at an animal (other than a couple of low light scope gashes)but I definitely find myself becoming more recoil sensitive as I get older which has a big impact on my range shooting. I no longer enjoy shooting any of my larger calibers more than 4-5 times and my technique has not changed a whit in 40 years. My 22-250, .243 and 30-30 are looking more attractive for my numero uno every year. I can easily shoot a box of shells out of any of these rifles without any problems and the old adage about practicing and perfection still hold true.

 

[fallout mike]

I have a arm that was basically put back together with spit, duct tape and baling wire. I can no longer shoot large calibers bc of the recoil. So IDCURRIE, could you show me the "proper technique" to shoot in my state, surgeries notwithstanding?

 

[mnhntr]

I also live in MN and have taken a few whitetails with my AR15 in .223. I use handloads with 75gr Hornady BTHP match bullets and they are just as dead as if I used my .260 or .35rem. The key is shot placement. I almost always shoot them in the neck and they drop in their tracks. If they are over 300yds then I would opt for my .260rem.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Here are a few other threads on this subject you may find helpful.
Opinions will vary, as you can already see.
My opinion, if it's all I had or all I was capable of using, I would use it. It's not, so I won't.
I did see a deer killed last season with a .223 at 125 yds. DRT! Never wiggled.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=686171&highlight=.223+deer
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=683463&highlight=.223+deer
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=673945&highlight=.223+deer
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=566683&highlight=.223+deer
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=474397&highlight=.223+deer
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=489378&highlight=.223+deer

 

[Ar180shooter]

Depends on where you live, I suppose.

Here in Far Northern Canada it is highly illegal and for good reason. The deer are MUCH larger here than the Southern United States.

Shots are also generally taken over great, open expanses between 200-350 yards in my experience. Shots are usually taken with a tall bipod while sitting on your foot.

Flatter shooter calibers such as the 270win and 300 win mag are preferred. Less flat shooting calibers are good out to 350 yards too such as the 30'06 and 7mm'08 or the 338wm. The bullet drop is greater on these but a bit of practice to know your drops and you should be okay.

A 223 Remington is a comical joke for this application, particularly since you're just as likely to encounter a giant Moose or Elk or brown bear.

Even if it were legal here, I wouldn't do it for ethical reasons. I'm not even sure what the benefit of using such a tiny bullet would be except maybe lighter recoil for people with shoulder injuries or the terminally sissy.

An ethical hunter will ensure that his bullet is of sufficient quality and size to kill game as cleanly and humanely as possible. Using the smallest possible projectile does not achieve that goal.

.223 is legal for deer in several provinces, and will work fine. Choose your shots carefully and select a decent bullet like a Nosler partition.

As for shooting Moose/Caribou... IF you're hunting small deer in the southern U.S., it doesn't matter what rounds are appropriate for Moose... just small deer.

Also, heart shot with a .223 is better than a gut shot with a .308... and I've seen plenty of the latter from other hunters, while doing only the former myself.

I also don't get the "highly illegal" part. You would be in violation of provincial hunting regulations, the worst that would happen is your firearm is confiscated by the game warden and you get a hunting ban for a few years.

 

[mtrmn]

Like the milspec AR argument, somebody is always resurrecting this dead horse.

IN MY OPINION-If it's legal in your area to use 223 for deer hunting and you want to do it, then go for it. If you decide it wasn't such a good idea then stop. Neither side will ever give in to the other in this age old argument.

 

[Swami]

I would definitely agree that what we see as "deer" here in Louisiana is much different that our northern neighbors! I had a rather large (by our standards) doe cross about 20 yards in front of my motorcycle a few weeks ago; I'd say she was 250+ pounds, and that looked HUGE to me.

Most shots here are under 200 yards, and a good many are taken at 50 yards or less. The 30-30 is king in these parts, but I would definitely use my Rem 700 in .223 and would have no ethical qualms. Were I planning a hunting trip up north, I would not consider less than .30 cal.

 

[dprice3844444]

I have a arm that was basically put back together with spit, duct tape and baling wire. I can no longer shoot large calibers bc of the recoil. So IDCURRIE, could you show me the "proper technique" to shoot in my state, surgeries notwithstanding?

a pachmeyer magnum decellerator butt pad and a http://www.gentrycustom.com/muzzle-brake should ease the recoil pain for rebuilt/damaged shoulders

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I had a rather large (by our standards) doe cross about 20 yards in front of my motorcycle a few weeks ago; I'd say she was 250+ pounds, and that looked HUGE to me.

I'm not saying you're lying amigo, but I'd have to see a 250+ lb doe to believe it, and then I still probably wouldn't believe it.

I figure you saw a mature buck that had shed it's atlers.

 

[Swami]

> I figure you saw a mature buck that had shed it's atlers.

Maybe! And I was traveling 50+ on a bike, etc., so my estimates might be off! I call it the "fish-estimate"

My point was, what is massive and almost unbelievable by our standards is still smaller than the deer in Canada, which could help explain why we see the .223 as a capable round and why our northern neighbors do not.

 

[idcurrie]

If you're getting 'scope gashes', you're 'doing it wrong'. Just because your technique hasn't changed in decades doesn't mean the technique is correct

People with medical conditions are obvious exceptions. The fact that people have disabilities doesn't make stairs an invalid choice.

.223 is legal for deer in several provinces

I believe it's legal in 2 out of 13 provinces and territories.

I also don't get the "highly illegal" part. You would be in violation of provincial hunting regulations, the worst that would happen is your firearm is confiscated by the game warden and you get a hunting ban for a few years.

Actually you can forfeit anything that you used while hunting. This includes your TRUCK. Large monetary fine, hunting ban and criminal record. Here in AB, anyway.

is still smaller than the deer in Canada,

Canada is a pretty big place. The poster above, who is from Ontario doesn't have the giants. Hell, the most populated parts of ontario actually jut down below whole states.

Up in northern Canada (northern Sask, Alberta, Yukon etc), yes animals are just that much larger here.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Hey idcurrie, it really don't matter what you yammer on about.. I don't care what you say but calling someone a Barbie doll player and that they shoot small dogs is an insult.

 

[mnhntr]

"I'm not saying you're lying amigo, but I'd have to see a 250+ lb doe to believe it, and then I still probably wouldn't believe it.

I figure you saw a mature buck that had shed it's atlers."
This doe dressed out at 175lbs, my buddy took it on the back of my property here in MN. The doe was close to 210lbs on the hoof

 

[Arkansas Paul]

That is a massive doe for sure.
Trust me, you aint seeing one like that in the south. Hell, that's a big buck here. I bet you don't see many up there in MN.

 

[idcurrie]

Hey idcurrie, it really don't matter what you yammer on about.. I don't care what you say but calling someone a Barbie doll player and that they shoot small dogs is an insult.

...I really don't think you got what I was saying.

Like the Ruger 10/22 is to rimfire, the AR-15 is the 'Barbie doll' of the centerfire rifle world. It has tons of accessories you can buy and you can dress it up however you want.

The 'Dog' comment is meant to show that the class of cartridge is suitable for varmint class game such as coyote (a dog). It's not optimal for deer. There are FAR better choices of cartridges which actually reside in that class.

That's not an insult to anyone, it's a statement about the class of cartridge.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Now you're telling me I don't get what you're saying? oh heavens

 

[Kachok]

.22 caliber hunting bullets have poor external ballistics in general. While the 223 has adequate energy at the muzzle it tapers off very quickly. If someone was in a pinch for money the amount that you save using the small 223 is offset by the need for premium bullets like the Partition. Besides a 30-30 shell costs about the same as a quality 223 and is a much better option IMHO energy figures may be close but there is something to be said for caliber/mass/momentum when talking about terminal ballistics.
Long story short a 223 is marginal at best as a deer cartridge but if you limit yourself close ranges and precise shot placement it certainly can work, I have a friend that claims 15 straight one shot deer kills with his AR.

 

[Certaindeaf]

They say it takes 50fpe to kill a man.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.22 caliber hunting bullets have poor external ballistics..

It is my understanding, and we might quibble upon the "hunting" term perhaps, but unless I'm mistaken, all standing 1,000 yard competitions/bets/awards have been won with the .223.

 

[Kachok]

It is my understanding, and we might quibble upon the "hunting" term perhaps, but unless I'm mistaken, all standing 1,000 yard competitions/bets/awards have been won with the .223.

No even within real world hunting ranges (inside 400yards) the 223 falls short, depending on the bullet used a 223 falls below long accepted minimums at only aprox 100-125 yards. Even a 243 is effective out to 300yards with common soft point bullets and over 350 with premium high BC bullets, I would consider the 243 VASTLY superior. By the same standards a 140gr 260 Rem or 6.5x55 are effective out past 700 yards with high BC bullets, no way would I ever grab a 223 over my 6.5x55, 7mm-08, or 270 on a deer hunt.
With all we put into hunting who in their right mind would risk compromising it for a few pennies per shot? Seems silly to me.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I just read the OP again and noticed that he wants something for the brush.
In that case, the .308 you use for most of your hunting would be a better choice by far. I mean, the .223 is fine if it's all you have or if you can't handle high powered rifle recoil for one reason or another, but if you have both, I'd call it silly to use the .223.

Just my opinion. Take it for what its worth.

 

[CMC]

Federal premium loaded with 60 grain Nosler partition.

 

[JPG19]

I have taken several deer, all within 100m, using Hornady 55gr soft-points. I would have been more comfortable with a heavier round, say 75gr or 77gr, but this was all the local stores had in stock at the time. Either way, it dropped them like a sack of potatoes; no issue whatsoever.

 

[ldlfh7]

Go for it - Whitetails are not hard to kill.