.223 resizing question

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paulo

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I am new to reloading,have the Hornady LNL AP. My question is when I measure my fired brass I come up with 1.451 after resizing it only goes down to 1.450 I am using the LNL headspace guage. If I screw the die down more I get the rim torn off and the case stuck. Even then the case would only be about .002 smaller. I use Hornady one shot spray lube. Am I doing something wrong or reading to much into it? Thanks
Paul
 
I load for 20+ cartridges and don't use a headspace gauge in any of them. When resizing a case, set the die up by running the shell holder up until it touches the base of the die and then turn the die down a bit more until the tension is enough (probably no more than 1/8th to 1/4 turn) so that with a case in the shell holder, the shell holder will touch the base of the die when the ram is fully up.

Now take your resized case and see if it will easily chamber and extract from your gun; if it will, it's resized enough. After resizing, check the length of the case and make sure it's no longer than the maximum recommended length; if it is trim it. These are the only measurements you need unless you're a bench rest shooter going for routine 0.25 inch or less 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

I don't use Hornady One Shot spray lube so don't know anything about it. I use Imperial Sizing Wax which works well for me. If you use enough lube you shouldn't get cases stuck. The inside of the case mouths also need a little lube. If you get too much lube on the outside of the neck and shoulder, you will get wrinkles on the shoulder (not dangerous but a bit unsightly).
 
I only use One Shot and I size thousands of .223/yr. Shake the can good. Then quickly (but not too quickly) spray all 4 sides at an angle of 45 degrees from above. I've only ever had one stuck case that was my fault, not the lubes, dies, or case.
 
YOu should not be able to screw the die down sommore if it's set up properly,as others have said...screw it in until it touches the shell holder,and maybe just a smidge more,and leave it there.
Otherwise the die isn't able to do it's job correctly.
 
I use one shot and have used it o load 7K 223 rounds this year. I've gone to the RCBS small base X die as my sizer. I spray from 4 sides, let sit for an hour and load. I usually have 200 cases in 50 round case holders.
 
Paul,

Maybe I'm confused, but maybe you are too.

Resizing is not intended to change the length of the brass, only the diameter. Yes, resizing will change the brass length, but that is not the purpose. Any length change is totally uncontrolled.

The only exception might be that RCBS die that supposedly stops the growth of brass, preventing you from needing to trim.
 
Re-sizing is intended to return the case back to factory spec.

That includes reducing the diameter.

But it also includes shortening the length between the case-head and the datum line on the shoulder.
In other words, shortening it to standard headspace dimensions again.

The result of moving all that metal around does generally make the case longer over-all as well.

rc
 
But, keep this in mind. If brass has been fired with to hot/maximum+ loads, this can become a problem that dies can not fix. The web area near the head can expand to much keeping the dies from sizing the brass correctly. Remember, the Full length resizing die has a bevel at its mouth. This mean part of the web area does not get resized in most bottle neck cases. Guess whos Photos lol View attachment 403081
 
Re-sizing is intended to return the case back to factory spec.

That includes reducing the diameter.

But it also includes shortening the length between the case-head and the datum line on the shoulder.
In other words, shortening it to standard headspace dimensions again.

The result of moving all that metal around does generally make the case longer over-all as well.
Click to expand...

Clearly, I'm the one confused. Maybe I'm too used to straight walled cartridges.

What's the critical distance, shoulder datum to mouth, or shoulder datum to rim? What happens with repeated firing and trimming? Which dimension gets out of wack? I always thought that the case mouth failed first, but maybe it is somthing else...
 
Sass i screwed the resizing die down till it touched the shell plate then down bout 1/8 more.
Jeff686 I know what your saying however everything I have read says you should try to size about .002 smaller. I shoot service rifle, Krieger barrels,made by Mike Bykowskie HPI. So I tryed the cases today and they all seemed to function fine.
Paul
 
Size Down What?

Paulo,
What is it that you've read that needs sizing down? If you're reading neck diameter ....you'd be about right ... .002 less than bullet diameter. If you've read case diameter then that would be about right, but if case length , then I'm confussed. Head space will be determand by the dataum line at what ever point along the case shoulder that makes contact with the chamber shoulder first. If you have an undersize chamber (length).. then you may have to trim the bottom of your die .. if your chamber is oversize then you would just have to back out on the sizing die a part turn. Hope this helps.

Jimmy K
 
JimmyK
I think what I am saying is from the base of the case to the top of the shoulder. The spec calls for1.557 The Blackhills blue box is 1.447 my fire formed brass is 1.552 when I resize it stays at about 1.551. I had heard that I should try to get this dim. about .003 smaller than what the fire formed dim. is. Again this is shot out of a semi auto so smaller is better right?
Thanks to all of you who have responded.
Paul
 
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What's the critical distance, shoulder datum to mouth, or shoulder datum to rim? What happens with repeated firing and trimming? Which dimension gets out of wack? I always thought that the case mouth failed first, but maybe it is somthing else...
Click to expand...

In relative low pressure loads that are usual with straight walled cases, the case mouth fails first from repeated crimping.

In straight walled cases used for high pressure loads and with bottle necked cases, the case expands more. When the case is run into the die which brings the case back to the proper diameter, the brass has to go somewhere and there is migration toward the case mouth leaving the brass near the head a bit thinner. Eventually, with multiple reloadings, the brass near the head will become so thin you will get a head separation. How soon that happens depends on how well your brass fits the chamber, brass quality and on the pressure of your loads.
 
what I was saying was .. that no matter what the drawings say...your chamber, your die & your cases are all different! What has to happen is to get your dies to size your cases to fit your chamber and to do it without over working the cases or they want last long! The manufactors die reamers, cases forming dies and chamber reamers all wear ...we get by chance something close to being right....what would be ideal is to get a matched set of dies, cases and chamber all the perfect size. It happens but it cost $$ ...more than most of us want to spend!

Jimmy K
 
Small Base Dies

Q. I see a Small Base Die Set listed for my caliber. Do I need these or should I buy a Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set? How does each set differ?

A. The Small Base Die set is intended for use for ammunition to be used in auto, semi-auto, and lever action rifles so that the loaded round chambers and extracts easily. The Small Base Sizer Die sizes the case from the shoulder to the head of the case a couple of thousandths smaller than a Full Length Sizer Die. In certain calibers it also sets the shoulder of the case back a thousandth or two more than the Full Length Sizer Die. The Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set is not normally recommended for ammo to be used in auto, semi-auto, or lever action rifles. The Full Length Die set is recommended for ammunition used in bolt action rifles, particularly for ammunition to be used for hunting. The Neck Die Set can also be used to produce ammunition for use in bolt action rifles. The Neck Sizer Die sizes only the neck of the case so it will hold the bullet firmly. It does not size the body of the case nor does it set the shoulder back. Neck sized cases will usually chamber for three or more firings, depending on the powder charge and chamber dimensions. However, over a period of time, a slight drag will be noticed when the bolt is locked. At this point, cases will need to be full length sized and the shoulder set back so they will chamber and extract easily.
Click to expand...
http://www.rcbs.com/questions/reloading_questions.aspx
I had heard that I should try to get this dim. about .003 smaller than what the fire formed dim. is.
Click to expand...
For a custom chamber you may need small base dies IF you feel you need to push the shoulder back more than you are now. BUT you also said
So I tryed the cases today and they all seemed to function fine.
Click to expand...
If the sized case chambers in your rifle, i dont see a problem. Are you still having this problem :confused:
If I screw the die down more I get the rim torn off and the case stuck.
Click to expand...
:confused:
 
Taking Measurements of Fired Brass IN AR15 Rifles

my fire formed brass is 1.552
Click to expand...
There is a small possibility that your cartridge headspace gets shorter on firing. This would mean your measurement of 1.552" is not correct. Two things IMO can cause this. 1. Brass spring back, brass has a memory, it wants to return to its original dimensions. 2. Some chambers are larger than others, see chamber difference here. http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html Your custom barrel should have a nice minimum spec. chamber, so your measurement of 1.552" may be very close to being correct. A 5.56 chamber gave me undersize cartridge headspace readings because the body diameter right behind the shoulder was expanding .005". This pulled the shoulder back on firing giving an incorrect reading. IMO So now, if the sized brass fits the rifle chamber, i dont worry about it. Good quality dies (RCBS) automaticly set the correct cartridge headspacing for you. Controling the cartridge headspace can give better accuracy. The terms cartridge head space, full length resizing, bumping the shoulder back, all mean the same thing when using factory dies. IMO
 
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"One Shot has stuck many cases for me. I have changed to Lee Lube. Works great."

+1. Never had a stuck case with Lee Lube.
 
243
How does a die "Good quality dies (RCBS) automaticly set the correct cartridge headspacing for you" ??
I find that good dies are closer to accepted standard dimensions but are not automatic by no means. I 've(my brother & I) had two Identical guns(Remington 700s)(same 243 cal.) purchased at the same time within 10 numbers of each others serial # have totally different head spacing ....it is a bitch to have change dies for each rifle each time we reload. Guess what I think happened.. the chamber reamer was changed between the two guns or a shift change ...or someone just didn't check what they were doing!
Jimmy K
 
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