223Rem at 1000yrds

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gotboostvr

gotboostvr

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I've got an arbitrary goal of ringing steel out to 1000yrds. I'm looking at buying a bolt action dedicated solely to that pursuit. No competitions or hunting.

I'm looking at a Savage Varmint 223, it's a 1:9" twist 26" heavy barrel and I'm seeing people claim good results with 75-80gr bullets accuracy wise.

For the same price, I can grab a Tactical model in 6.5 Creedmoor with mostly the same features, which I know will stretch that far. The 223 is just more economical to load for and since I'm not worrying about the ethics of humanely killing something that far IF the 223 can get there reliably I think I'd like to go that route.

I've already got piles of brass (LC & Federal), dies, primers, some 75gr Hornady bullets and powders well suited to 223, but would need to start from scratch practically for the Creedmoor. I have some supplies since I already load 308win, but will need brass and bullets.

If it's a vain attempt let me know. What are y'alls experiences trying to push the little 223 out that far? Also if you have any other suggestions for similar priced rifles capable of the task (around $700) let me know.
 
I have seen it done. Many of the PRS matches have a division for guys silly enough to shoot 223 Rem out that far. My first PSR match one of the guys on my squad was shooting 223 Rem and did fairly well with it. I would think that if you're handloading for it you could ring some steel.
 
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I have a M700 in 223 with a 26 inch Shilen 9 twist barrel that I've had some success at 1,000 with.I shoot 69 grain tipped Matchkings at a little over 3,000 FPS according to the chronograph.Last summer on a Sunday morning before the sun came up,I shot 3 shots in 6 inches at 1,000.It was dead calm and there was no mirage.As soon as the sun came up over the mountain there was just enough of a breeze to make the leaves on the trees quiver and I struggled to keep it on my 16 inch square target while I was hitting it regularly with my 308.The 223 can do it,but you have to be a master at doping the wind.I've never shot any bullets heavier than 73 grains in mine,but if you can get the 80 grainers to shoot in a 9 twist,I would think they would do better than what I shoot in mine.There is a lot of talk about hitting things at a grand,but I've found it to be quite a challenge unless I'm shooting something pretty fast with bullets in the .600 G1 BC.But I also found it very satisfying to do it with a 223.
 
I put a 28" 6.5 twist on an AR for the purpose of shooting 90 gr bullets in F class.
Quite accurate but by the time I souped it up to stay supersonic at 1000 yards, it was bending and breaking up the Sierra 90 gr MK. So I switched to VLDs. Bergers are good and I really liked JLK (who no longer makes 90s.)

Velocity and BC say it should shoot with a 175gr .308, but it won't in practice.
It is fine up to 600, though.

Berger now says that a 75-80 gr bullet at higher velocity is the way to stretch the .223.
And mine will shoot the 75 Amax very well if I don't load it hot enough to break up in the fast twist.

Good luck with that 9 twist. I'd look at a Tikka with 8 twist for the job.
 
Jim Watson said:
I put a 28" 6.5 twist on an AR for the purpose of shooting 90 gr bullets in F class.
Quite accurate but by the time I souped it up to stay supersonic at 1000 yards, it was bending and breaking up the Sierra 90 gr MK. So I switched to VLDs. Bergers are good and I really liked JLK (who no longer makes 90s.)

Velocity and BC say it should shoot with a 175gr .308, but it won't in practice.
It is fine up to 600, though.

Berger now says that a 75-80 gr bullet at higher velocity is the way to stretch the .223.
And mine will shoot the 75 Amax very well if I don't load it hot enough to break up in the fast twist.

Good luck with that 9 twist. I'd look at a Tikka with 8 twist for the job.
Click to expand...

Running out of case capacity I'm guessing with the 90gr bullets?

I looked into the Tikka's but they stretch the budget a little too much. I'd probably be money ahead to buy a used Savage and twist on a made to order barrel I'd think.
 
My son shoots a Savage .223 in F Class competitions, usually 600 yard matches, but we did shoot a 1,000 yard match a couple of years ago.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/first-1-000-yard-f-class-match.849109/

It might be frustrating for you with 1:9 twist barrel since stability will be marginal using the long, high BC bullets you’ll need to hit a target that far out with any consistency. You may also have difficulty getting those bullets to chamber.

I installed a Shilen 1:7 that was specifically reamed for the 90 VLDs and that’s what he shoots. As you can see, even compared to an 80g Berger, they are really long

3E278B22-A86B-4F6F-98EF-A372FD77EFF1.jpeg

The 90 VLDs give you roughly the equivalent ballistics of a 185 Berger Juggernaut in .308, or so I’ve been told. Since I also shoot those in F Class I can say that my experience backs that up.

With that said, even when you’re pushing the outside of the .223 envelope like I’ve noted above, it’s a challenge at 1,000 yards
 
A few things worth noting: I'm in Arizona, so it's pretty warm here (to say the least) I know marginally stabilized bullets struggle in the cold.
That and combined with the 26" pipe I should (in theory) be able to shoot the 73-80gr bullets I'm thinking. I know each barrel is a rule unto itself.
Even if it dosen't jive with the heavies, I need some shorter range practice anyways and the 69gr bullets will still get me out pretty far while I save up to rebarrel if need be. I'd still prefer something more economical if possible to shoot to 1k (I realize it's not a po'boy's endeavor). Y'all have any favorite sort action cartridges that are easier on the wallet? I know the 243Win/6/6.5creed are more than up to the task, but if starting from a blank slate what's the preferred cartridges?
 
If you just want to do it once, fire enough rounds and you’ll hit it with a short barreled ar15.

consider a 223AI as it’s a bit more velocity and still cheap brass and just a couple more grains of powder


Jim Watson said:
JLK (who no longer makes 90s.)
Click to expand...
I was under the impression Swampy had passed on. Is jlk making anything now?
I stopped shooting my jlk 6 and 6.5mm projos cause I figured I’d never get anymore
 
taliv said:
If you just want to do it once, fire enough rounds and you’ll hit it with a short barreled ar15.
Click to expand...

or just get a 4x8 sheet of steel. :)

I have often enjoyed .22 LR at 300+ yards. Shoots like a rainbow, iirc like 12” of drop between 290 and 300 yards, with one load but it is a satisfying feeling making it hit, just the same as big ones further out.
 
gotboostvr said:
I've got an arbitrary goal of ringing steel out to 1000yrds. I'm looking at buying a bolt action dedicated solely to that pursuit. No competitions or hunting.

I'm looking at a Savage Varmint 223, it's a 1:9" twist 26" heavy barrel and I'm seeing people claim good results with 75-80gr bullets accuracy wise.

For the same price, I can grab a Tactical model in 6.5 Creedmoor with mostly the same features, which I know will stretch that far. The 223 is just more economical to load for and since I'm not worrying about the ethics of humanely killing something that far IF the 223 can get there reliably I think I'd like to go that route.

I've already got piles of brass (LC & Federal), dies, primers, some 75gr Hornady bullets and powders well suited to 223, but would need to start from scratch practically for the Creedmoor. I have some supplies since I already load 308win, but will need brass and bullets.

If it's a vain attempt let me know. What are y'alls experiences trying to push the little 223 out that far? Also if you have any other suggestions for similar priced rifles capable of the task (around $700) let me know.
Click to expand...
It’s not a vain attempt. I have a good friend that has confirmed kills on prairie dogs at over 1000 yards with a bone stock Rem 700 VSSF and handloads. Although at 1000 it might be more of a “tink” than a “ring”.
 
If you go to a 1,000 yard match you will see .223 rifles on the line but they represent a small fraction of the various calibers being utilized. The .223 is adequate at 600 but 1,000 strains it's capability. A friend shoots an AR using 90 grain bullets but the chamber has been cut to allow for the extra length of the round and he has to single load the rounds as they won't fit in the magazine. The lower cost of .223 ammo may be overshadowed by the lower performance of that round at 1,000 yards. Personally I'd go for the 6.5
 
Nature Boy said:
I also read that he passed but heard someone had taken on his business. Not sure where they are in the process though
Click to expand...

There is a current JLK www with Ed Faber on the e-mail.

I don't particularly recommend a LR .223, it is kind of a stunt when there are better calibers so readily available now.
But if you get a Savage, you can change the barrel and the bolt face when you want a stouter round. Or just shoot out the original barrel. Forget the internet brag of thousands and thousands of rounds when you are going for really high performance.
 
The Ruger American Predator I own has a 1:8 twist if that is any help to you. Best of luck with the .223 at 1000 yards. I don't reload yet and my range is only 200 yards, so I can't help you much. My best groups with that rifle in a Boyd's At-One stock were 0,7 inch at 100 yards with Hornady match ammunition. Think it was 73 grains, but not sure.
 
Frostbite said:
The Ruger American Predator I own has a 1:8 twist if that is any help to you. Best of luck with the .223 at 1000 yards. I don't reload yet and my range is only 200 yards, so I can't help you much. My best groups with that rifle in a Boyd's At-One stock were 0,7 inch at 100 yards with Hornady match ammunition. Think it was 73 grains, but not sure.
Click to expand...

I kept going back and forth on a Predator. But it's not a big price difference (if I get the deal I'm hoping for on this Savage) and I figured I'd need to change the stock. The Accufit/Accustock isn't anything amazing, but it's adjustable, and has a nice wide beavertail up front. I'm 6'4 and factory socks very rarely fit me. I figure I can fill it with epoxy and crossbow bolts to make it sufficiently stiff if need be and be content with it for awhile. Plus the heavier, longer tube in the Savage won't hurt. I feel like the Savage is a bit more upgradeable as well if need be to grow with my skill.
 
I bought the Ruger when money was tighter for me. I don't regret it, but I would not buy it again now that I have tasted CZ rifles. Sometimes, I wish I had waited a little and bought a more appropriate rifle for target shooting, it's only use for me, but if I had just waited all my life, I would have not lived.
 
I double up and wear earplugs and electronic ear muffs.

Even at 500yrds, the 77gr 223 is difficult to hear on steel. tink

6.5grendel, 6.8SPC, 308, and 30-06 CLANG steel at that distance

I'm a firm believer of using the right tool for the job.

I like the 223, but there are better 1000yrd tools available
 
I keep thinking about a fast twist .223 AI, but think I’d opt for a 6mm Creedmoor if I planned to shoot 1,000 yards regularly.
 
If your 1:9 will stabilize the Hornady 75 HPBT, it will do 1K with full house 5.56 Nato loads, but that is not it's happy place. My 1:9 DPMS cheap carbine will stabilize this bullet to 300m (farthest I've tested). Still grouping well at that distance and none of 20 shots crossed the singularity was the limit of my testing.

IFFFFF your rifle will stabilize the Hornady 75 ELD-M, it will absolutely do 1000 yards. I have done as much, but was shooting mine through a 1:8 RRA 20". Also a full on 5.56 NATO pressure load.
 
Well, I won the 110 Varmint auction so the die has been cast. Got a good price on it.

Worst case, it'll be a good trainer at medium range and a good action to build upon if it can't perform like I hope.

I've got a couple thousand rounds of factory 223, and a few hundred handloads to get me on paper and zeroed. Mostly 55gr, but that should be fine at the shorter ranges I need to be starting with.

Once upon a time I could consistently hold 0.75-1" at 100yrd with my 308win, but I've been away from that kind of shooting for a few years now.
 
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