You do not need a buffer and buffer spring. All you need is something to keep the bolt assembly where it's supposed to be so that no gap develops between the collar and barrel during operation. I stuffed a worn out rifle buffer spring in the tube and topped it with a piece delrin cylinder that I cut a notch in for the retaining pin.
22LR AR-15 Conversion Kit Reliability Tip: use buffer and spring
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ColoradoMinuteMan
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I'm curious and have a couple of questions:
1. What specifically didn't run very well (are we talking about accuracy from high twist rate)?
2. Does dedicated .22 LR barrel mean a barrel chambered in .22LR or just a slower twist rate 5.56 barrel using the CMMG adapter?
I can't answer the first question for Bcwitt.
For question number two, yes a dedicated barrel will have the proper 22lr chamber along with the correct rifle twist rate for 22LR (1-16 twist). With a conversion bolt, you have the 22LR chamber in the kit along with the 223/5.56 chamber to deal with.
I have used 22 conversion kits quite a bit in the M16A1 and M16A2 while I was in the Army. The A1 was always more accurate with its 1-12 twist when compared to the A2 with its 1-7 twist when shooting 22LR. While conversion kits can and do run reliably, you will get better accuracy out of a dedicated 22LR barrel.
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Radom Guy
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You bet. I was running it yesterday, and it worked awesome.
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Radom Guy
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The problem was with malfunctions. Jamming and whatnot.
I use a barrel that was made for 223/5,56. It has the 1 in 7 twist rate. There is so much talk of accuracy or a lack of accuracy with these conversion kits. Technically it is true that the 22LR prefers a 1 in 16 twist rate, but I have no problem with mine as it is. At 60 yards I can very easily get a 1” group with the 8” barrel using a cheap Chinese reflex sight. Using a carbine 16” barrel with a similar twist rate, my groups at 100 yards are about 2” shooting from a bench and using a scope.
ColoradoMinuteMan
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I'm just curious what makes it a "dedicated .22LR" barrel and to what do you attribute the increased reliability? I guess I'm just curious what barrel features would contribute to increased reliability given that the bolt, recoil spring, chamber is all part of the CMMG unit and assuming that the magazines, etc would all be the same units as before.
ColoradoMinuteMan
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Yeah, sorry for the confusion on my questions. I think of dedicated 22LR uppers as chambers for .22LR as well, using a .22LR bolt, etc. I was just a bit curious because it sounds like he is still using the CMMG conversion in his setup. Also curious what about the (sounds like 5.56) barrel improves from a reliability standpoint. Could just be luck I suppose that the CMMG just aligns better with that particular barrel, which increases reliability. Otherwise though, I wouldn't know what to look for in a 5.56 barrel, other than twist rate, to increase .22LR performance using CMMG converter.
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Radom Guy
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The person above answered the question about what a dedicated 22LR barrel is. I refer to my gun as a dedicated 22LR because that’s all I shoot with it, and I use a CMMG 22LR charging handle which would not work with 223/5.56. It has a thicker shaft that prevents spent cases from getting stuck in the CH. But it can still run very well with a regular AR charging handle.
Again, my barrel is technically made for 5.56/223. I am not an expert on specific 22LR barrels. I do not have one. The other person explained it well.
It’s explained pretty well earlier in the post, actually, what makes it more reliable. Nothing to do with the barrel, though. It is the buffer pushing up against the rear of the bolt carrier to prevent it bolt and its carrier from slopping around a millimeter or two or three. And as others have mentioned, there are other options besides a buffer. Bore Buddy makes an alternative product that does the same thing.
Bcwitt
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Accuracy & functionallity both improved a lot. Also, the gas on the 556 barrel would leach back & get in your face. Never had that problem w 556 or the new barrel, as there is no gas hole. It is nearly as accurate as my '80s vintage Marlin 880.
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Radom Guy
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Bcwitt, I believe that question was meant for me regarding my experience with the kit and now using the buffer with spring, as I am the OP. Unless I am wrong? But certainly the more people who include their experience with the same thing is good, too! I just don’t want ColoradoMinuteMan to be confused about who is answering his question.
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You can shoot about kinda accurately 50 yds with an adapter but don't expect more. What makes a dedicated 22 LR barrel more accurate is its .221 bore which fits the 22 LR better than a .223. Less slop and a lot less leading. Simple as that.
LiveLife
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What makes "dedicated 22LR barrel" is primarily the bore/groove-to-groove diameter of the barrel. Most .223/5.56 barrels are .224" and larger diameter can decrease accuracy of shooting 22LR bullets.
And unlike most .223/5.56 barrels with 1:7/8/9 twist rate, "dedicated 22LR barrels" usually have 1:16 twist rate.
While my "accurized" 10/22 can produce 1/2" groups at 50 yards and 1.25" groups at 100 yards, I cannot get that level of accuracy with my 16"/18"/20" ARs using CMMG 22LR conversion bolts - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-shipped-pricing.902560/page-5#post-12304852
100 yard groups ranging 1"-1.25" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12194385
ColoradoMinuteMan
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I guess, just for clarity sake: I know what a dedicated .22 LR upper is, my question was effectively "What do you mean your CMMG conversion worked better when you got a .22 LR dedicated barrel?" Because a dedicated .22 LR barrel wouldn't need a CMMG conversation device.
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Radom Guy
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Actually I did not say that, not at all. I said that the kit worked better in my dedicated 22LR AR with its 7-1/2” barrel (length not really relevant to this post, though) after I put the buffer and spring in it. My post was simply about making it work (not malfunction) in my 7.5” barrel. It already worked great in my 16” AR barrel. And now it works great in this one. Please re-read the first comment in the post by me. I am doing my best to answer your questions, but it seems that you have confused about my post is all.
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Radom Guy
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For your convenience, this is my original post:
“Short” story: My CMMG 22LR AR-15 Conversion Kit ran great in my AR carbine with near perfect reliability. However, once I put it in my new, built by me, dedicated 22LR AR, it was not nearly as reliable, with zero to 4 malfunctions per 25 round mag, regardless of ammo type and brand.
Knowing that the conversion kit is blowback operated that does not function with the AR platform buffer and recoil spring system, that this firearm would be a dedicated 22LR, and that I want this gun to be lightweight, I left the receiver extension/buffer tube hollow. I did NOT install a buffer and buffer spring.
Long story short: I have now put a standard AR-15 weight buffer (3.0 oz.) and recoil spring, and the gun works perfectly (damn near it anyway). Before I put the buffer in, it malfunctioned around 12% of the time. With the buffer and spring, I shot 600 rounds this weekend and had only one malfunction (a single cartridge nosedive). CMMG should have this information front and center like RightToBear-dot-com does on their site (see below), or at the very least very available in a Troubleshooting section. As a matter of fact I plan to write about this to them. They’ve been very responsive in the past when I have contacted them (for other reasons).
For those who are curious, I am of course using the same ammo now that was malfunctioning before I put the buffer in. Those two ammos are CCI Mini-mag 40 grain Copper Plated Round Nose, as well as Aguila Super Extra copper plated 40 grain RN.
I discovered this fix by accident. I had tried many other things before this, by the way. I was on the Right To Bear vendor’s website. I read what you can see below in the screenshot. Ultimately the buffer and spring help to stabilize the 22LR bolt carrier. Looking at the bolt carrier and the way that it inserts into the receiver, it looks like it will not move during operation. However, when it cycles back, it moves the carrier ever so slightly such that it can cause malfunctions/jamming.
If there were a rimfire forum here or an AR forum, I would have posted there. There is not either of those so I posted in this general topic forum.
I hope this helps someone!
ColoradoMinuteMan
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The question was originally asked to jcwitt
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Radom Guy
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Actually I think he just answered it is all, even though he the question was for me, the OP, haha! This is getting very confusing
ColoradoMinuteMan
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I think we somehow have wires crossed here. My first response on this post, what a question in regards to the comments that jcwitt made" "Ny cmmg didnt run very well until i got a dedicated 22lr barrel. Not had any issues since." I was trying to clear up confusion on what was being discussed in the comment because I read this as "My CMMG .22 LR conversion did not work well until I began using a dedicated .22 LR barrel." That was confusing to me because, in my mind, a dedicated .22LR barrel is chambered for .22LR and does not require a CMMG .22 LR conversion. I think it was just my misunderstanding of what jcwitt intended to communicate.
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Radom Guy
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Haha! Okay, no problem, I just noticed that it was you who corrected me about who it was intended to, as you should. Sorry!
If you want Jcwitt to reply, perhaps you can reply to one of his comments and quote him in the reply, so he sees the reply is to him.
I wish I could help you more! I know that you are not asking me this question, but for what it’s worth, I will say that I personally like having a barrel that I could use with 223/5.56, “because I can” as a male canine would say. I personally am happy with the accuracy of its AR-15 1 in 7 twist rate for my plinking pleasure. But if you are nuts about accuracy, which I understand, a 22LR dedicated barrel with an appropriate chamber and twist rate would be the way to go. “Right to Bear” has what look like are some great options in that regard.
Enjoy!
Bcwitt
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Very sorry.
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Radom Guy
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No worries, especially because I believe I was wrong; the Q was meant for you! My apologies instead!
Bcwitt
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Just to clarify confusion, they offer a dedicated barrel seperately. It does away w the chamber insert.
ColoradoMinuteMan
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I think I just needed a few cups of coffee to sort out my thoughts. Thanks for the reply. So, the 22LR barrel is working well for you? Assuming it must have some sort of blowback bolt carrier setup, sort of like the 9mm bolt setup. I'll have to look into it. I've wanted to build a dedicated setup for a while now.
AR conversion bolts along with dedicated AR 22lr bolts are self contained and no part of the bolt goes into the buffer tube during operations. The only difference between the two is that a conversion bolt includes a chamber adaptor that fits a 5.56 chamber and the dedicated bolt does not. With the CMMG style bolts, the chamber adaptor and dedicated bolt face are interchangeable.
Where having a buffer and spring or just a spring and something to sit against the back of the bolt helps is to keep the whole bolt assembly held tight against the barrel. Keeping the bolt from moving helps with reliability along with helping reduce out of battery firing. The need for a pressure plug in addition to a buffer and spring will depend on the individual upper and lower. This is due to the allowed tolerances of all parts during manufacturing and is commonly called "tolerance stacking"
Some people will start out with a conversion kit and then decide to go with a dedicated barrel. And in this case one just needs to swap the chamber adaptor out for the dedicated barrel collar.
Where having a buffer and spring or just a spring and something to sit against the back of the bolt helps is to keep the whole bolt assembly held tight against the barrel. Keeping the bolt from moving helps with reliability along with helping reduce out of battery firing. The need for a pressure plug in addition to a buffer and spring will depend on the individual upper and lower. This is due to the allowed tolerances of all parts during manufacturing and is commonly called "tolerance stacking"
Some people will start out with a conversion kit and then decide to go with a dedicated barrel. And in this case one just needs to swap the chamber adaptor out for the dedicated barrel collar.
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