.22lr as a self defense round?

[Hank3_Fan]

If all you have is a Ruger 10/22, what can you do to improve your situation? I am looking at some other guns (first up is a shotgun for putting food on the table, after that a Mini-14 for fun and hunting), but right now I have to make do with what I have.

I have heard there are special loads, called Stinger or something?

Any helpful tips are much appreciated!

 

[Onmilo]

A gut full of .22s is far more deadly than several clean misses with a .44Magnum.
Winchester Super X long rifle hollowpoints are just as effective as the more expensive CCI Stingers.
Several spare loaded magazines kept with the rifle would be a good option if your budget is limited and the .22 is all you are going to have for the time being.

 

[WeedWhacker]

Frankly, I don't want to get shot with a .22 - they can indeed kill humans dead. However, as the size of the bullet is smaller than most handgun rounds *and* there is less powder to boot, I'd find myself a nice, reliable magazine with a capacity of 30-ish rounds. The other 29 rounds are insurance, to be able to keep squeezing the trigger until the threat is neutralized.

Also note that you're talking about a .22 from a rifle, with higher velocities than those from a .22 pistol. I don't want to get shot with a .22 pistol, either, but a rifle makes the .22 LR round more effective.

 

[Lou629]

HANK...

Remember the first rule of any gunfight is to bring a gun. If all i had was a .22 then that's what i'd bring to the party. A carbine-sized rifle like a 10/22sounds like it's as good a starting point as you could want, especially if you stick a hi-capacity magazine in it as the others have suggested.
In any case, nobody in his right mind is going to confront you in a gunfight and then say, "Hey!, Wait a minute! You've only got a .22 there!" and then proceed to move closer to you, or stand still and offer you a better shot at him. If the guy has even two living brain cells rubbing together, he's going to get the heck out of dodge!

 

[Nashmack]

Remember, silenced .22LR pistols are favored for assasinations by US special forces (ruger MKII/MKIII) Mossad, a number of South American organizations, and a number of Europeans. A .22 will enter the skull and bounce around instead of exiting.

 

[mp510]

The Israeli Air Marshals carry Beretta .22 tip ups, and are trained to shoot for the head.

A .22 is definetely better than nothing for protection, and as several others have said, I too would not want to be on the recieving end.

 

[dfaugh]

A .22 can be just a lethal as anything else... BUT, it can be very variable in its effectiveness... A couple stories to illustrate...

Worked with (stupid) guy that used to carry a .22 derringer in his pocket...Walked outa work one night, and slipped on the ice...Got home and dropped trou to take a crap, and noticed blood on his under wear...Gun had fired when he fell, bullet went in near his "man parts" and exited near his rectum....He never even realized he'd shot himself.

Had a case here a few years ago, where a guy was on trial for beating another guy to death with a shovel...But, before he beat the guy dead he had been shot 8 times in the chest with a .25 auto.

And finally, in my "young and stupid days", I got into a shouting match in a bar with some idiot...Ended up outside....I tried to walk away, at which point the punk shot me in the back with a .25...I promptly spun on him, and proceeded to kick his ass (last I knew thay said he MIGHT walk again, someday....but his face isn't ever gonna look very good).

In short, while a .22 might be better than nothing, I'd definitely empty the magazine until the guy stopped, if he does. But, if I were you, I'd be saving up for a shotgun...

 

[mete]

The 22lr has been around for over 100 years so there is lots of info -it all shows that immediate effect is usually little or nothing but you may die a day or two later... The best round is probably the flat tipped bullet though I don't remember who makes it....Many people have survived head shots even with high powered rifles because the round skull deflects the bullet !!! It's not a good aiming point!

 

[sm]

Reliable feeding and extraction.

Then POA/POI.

Win X22LR and CCI Mini Mag seems to "across the board" feed and extract in most guns.

I know folks that is all they have - a .22 rifle.
I also know folks that is the best for them due to physical limitations, health, age, etc.

Most of these are Marlin 60s, with age and such, easier to load a tube than magazine. They can hit with every shot a tennis ball at least. Even on a bad day of not feeling well. Better days, they will not miss a ping pong ball, golf ball,or small spinner targets.

Gun gotta run in order for shooter to get hits.

Makes no matter the platform, ctg/guage, round count...

 

[Lupinus]

A .22lr is certianly better then nothing. Load it with good hunting bullets, mini mags or better. CCI markets the VELOCITOR™ to animals up to coyotes and supposidly uses the same bullet design as gold dots. Load up with those and you have better then nothing.

Practice with it and get good to make well placed chest shots or a head shot if need be fast.

Look at it this way, if after putting a bunch of .22s into him it'll and least slow him down if doesn't do the job and at least you have a club

 

[Oleg Volk]

I asked the same question back in 1995.

Seems to me, 22LR will never be very reliable stopper...but picking reliable brand of ammo (such as CCI) with basic 40-grainers and using a rifle with a large magazine (i.e. 30-rounder) would work relatively well. The ability to fire very fast and make hits would compensate slightly for the poor penetration of the unjacketed bullets.

 

[Mannlicher]

I like the way the question was put. I would stick with factory Ruger mags, as those are the only 10/22 mags that I have never had a jam or feed problem with. They change out quickly if needed. For the cartridges, I like the CCI 36 grain Mini Mag Hollow Points. In my experience, they have good penetration, yet expand well.

 

[MikeH]

Wound profiles at the bottom of this page may help compare the lethality of .22LR vs. other calibers.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

 

[Hank3_Fan]

Many thanks!

 

[Squidward]

CCI ammo and lots of practice. Maybe consider a red dot type scope, a recoil buffer and some extra mags.

Did I mention extra ammo and lots of practice??

 

[AJAX22]

I've heard good things about quick shok ammo, haven't tried it on anything living yet, but compared to a normal .22 when shooting at a full water bottle, the cavitation and fragmentation caused the bottle to get partially shredded with a much more violant impact, than a standard .22 LR which just did a standard in out with the cavitation poping the cap off.

I wish i'd taken pictures, it was pretty neat.

 

[pedaldude]

I Was watching a COPS homicide special where they recovered a 10/22 that had been sprayed green with a banana clip and had been used to kill a neighbor who had been videotaping them making drug deals to show police. Also 22s seem to be involved in many accidental shootings where there are fatalities because they are so common. 22lr seems a good choice over 25acp but that seems to be it if you have a choice.

any info on 17hmr?

also what 22 pistol has the greatest capacity, many seem to be 10rds I know calico had one with 100 and 50rds but not a practical choice, do all 22s have to be single stack or are the ten rounders because of competition use?

 

[Cosmoline]

Use the most reliable and highest velocity combination you can get. Sacrifice capacity to reliability. So if an aftermarket high cap is not reliable, don't use it.

It's an interesting quandry. But the fact is almost any long gun is superior to a hand gun in a fight. I'd go so far as to say I'd pick up a 10/22 before I'd pick up a .44 Magnum for self defense. A high velocity .22LR out of a rifle is nothing to sneeze at. There is no recoil to worry about and you can place rounds pretty much wherever you choose at close range.

 

[MechAg94]

To me, 22 LR would seem to be a "shoot and run like hell round". It is not good as a "stand your ground" caliber unless that is all you have. Just be prepared to run or fight after shooting.

I sat on a jury where a guy was up for murder for shooting a guy with a .25 ACP pistol. Shot the guy through the lung. Medical guy said it likely took him 10 or 15 minutes to die with blood in his lungs and such. (It was outside a crack house so no one called 911.)

 

[Cosmoline]

But the .25 ACP out of a mouse gun is NOT on the same level as a high velocity .22LR out of rifle.

 

[rustymaggot]

AJAX22,

the quikshok 22's split into 3 neat pieces and dont go as deep. acording to wound profiles ive been able to find they only go half as deep as other 22's. the foillowing is some info i messaged to a buddy when we had a discussion on this topic. some relevant lincs as well.


"................(Pre-fragmented bullets like MagSafe and Glaser are easily defeated by an arm, and this is why we feel they're inadequate for personal defense use. Any pellets that manage to exit the arm and penetrate the torso are going to produce minimal wounding effect. Pre-fragmented bullets require best case conditions to produce maximum wounding effect.)


The 12-inch minimum penetration performance guideline ensures the bullet has sufficient penetration potential to reach and pass through vitals; not only when penetration conditions are favorable, but unfavorable as well, such as when a bullet has to perforate arm muscle and bone before it enters the upper torso.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs27.htm

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume3/number2/article3.htm

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs5.htm

............................."

i feel that the quikshok are not good for self defense because of lack of depth. they would cause bleeding and complications and i have no doubt as to their effectiveness in killing someone, but it might take a while to do it. mini mag or some other 22 round would be better than quikshok. maybe the aguilla sss? i havent seen any gel tests on those, but id like to.

 

[Terrierman]

I'd go so far as to say I'd pick up a 10/22 before I'd pick up a .44 Magnum for self defense.

Me too. In my mind a rifle ALWAYS trumps a handgun when you're talking defending yourself from other men. Now a single shot bolt action .22 would be another matter. But give me a Marlin Model 60, a 10/22, or one of my 77/22's over any handgun on the planet for the purpose the man asked the question about.

 

[gazpacho]

The only high-cap magazine I would trust for self defense would be the one made by Tactical Innovations. Unfortunately, it is extremely expensive.

Whatever magazine you choose to use, I would recommend CCI Mini-Mags, alternating HP with Solids (so long as it proved functionally reliable). The reason is that 22lr HPs might have inadequate penetration against heavily clothed badguys. I have no evidence of this, but vaguely remember annecdotal evidence stating little to no penetration against heavy leather jackets.

Don't forget that the 10/22 can make a good club, if you need it.

 

[Davo]

There is a fair amount of material out there on this subject. I used a Ruger 22/45 for quite a while as my defensive weapon. A .22 will certainly suffice, those who say the round is inferior to a pillow have not seen its effects, I have. The 10/22 is actually better than many other choices for a defensive arm (like the pocket .22's, .25's, and 32's).
A few points...
-ALL defensive weapons are "shoot and scoot", regardless of caliber.
-Fire until your life is no longer in danger
-Reliability trumps all else-this means you need to shoot that gun alot.
-Find a good HP load, I recommend the CCI velocitor (PM for more info about that)
-Keep your gun clean, especially if its your primary defensive arm
-Dont use the aftermarket plastic high caps-even if you happen to find a good one, the mag is likley to be knocked around in a scuffle, rendering the .22 useless. This is not an issue with the standard mag.
-NEVER use quick-shocks (c'mon Ajax this is a serious issue)

 

[Poodleshooter]

I'll definitely turn to my 10/22 for self defense if I am ever set upon by hordes of gremlins,rabid squirrels,leprechauns or other malicious wee people.
Till then I'm going with other choices unless a .22 rimfire is the only weapon at hand.

I've had too many FTF with dud .22 ammo that came from sealed boxes. CCI solids would be my choice of firepower methinks,or possibly Velocitors.