.22lr as a sniper rifle

[brockgl]

Okay, I am very uneducated when it comes to what calibers have been used by military or other organizations as a sniper rifle. Obviously, the .22lr is a small caliber very well suited for squirrels and small varmint hunting. I wouldn't want a .22 for my primary HD gun, though it would definitely be better than no gun at all. However, could a .22 be affective .vs a human target? Would it even penetrate a human torso? Or, would it have to be a head shot to be affective? Since it is a quiet round, I can see it being affective in situations when you need stealth. Anyone have any information about .22lr ever being used in past wars, by special forces or S.W.A.T teams anywhere, ever...?

 

[gunluvr17]

I think that it might penetrate the torso at point blank and high dollar ammunition

 

[Avenger29]

Okay...

Special forces type soldiers have used suppressed .22s, both in rifles and pistols, to take out guards, guard animals, etc.

Assasins have used .22s, too. Like during WWII, resistance fighters would put a .22 into the back of a German's head while in the theater and leave. Stuff like that.

The Israilies tried suppressed 10/22s as less-lethal rifles, but they proved to be too lethal. Still nice for taking out targets quietly.

So, yes, .22s have been used against human targets to good effect. I assume that headshots were normally used, but a .22 can kill in the chest, too.

I don't know about SWAT team use, but I wouldn't be suprised.

 

[gunluvr17]

wow i didnt know that, that is pretty interesting

 

[Cmdr. Gravez0r]

I read somewhere that something equivalent to .17 HMR was developed for covert sniper missons. The round would fragment into inherently small pieces o the caliber.origin was impossible to determine.

 

[LaEscopeta]

I'm the first one to say GUNKID!!!

 

[brockgl]

I'm the first one to say GUNKID!!!

??? If you think I am trolling by posting this you are definitely wrong. I just bought my first .22lr today (a CZ 452 Ultra Lux) to be used for squirrel season this coming August. And, a friend of mine were talking about it at lunch today and the topic came up of the .22lr's ability to stop or kill a human target. Thus the post.

 

[jkingrph]

At a reasonable range, in a "sniper" role a good 22lr could be very effective. Sniper is the key word, the target should not know you are there or wher you are, thus precise shot placement should insure effectiveness.

 

[Avenger29]

brockgl, Gunkid is a troll who posted all the time about how the .22LR was the most effective caliber and other inane things. He's in prison now.

I see your question as quite legitimate. As I detailed in my earlier post, .22LR has been used militarily in the past.

It is said that more people have been killed with .22LR than any other cartridge.

 

[spyder1911]

I was under the impression .22lr was often suppressed and used to take out cameras, lights, dogs ect. From my very very limited knowledge, a .22lr does not have the power or range to be considered a "sniper" weapon.

There are many other larger calibers which can be suppressed quite easily and provide much better ballistics and power than a .22lr for a long rifleman/designated marksman role (I don't like the term sniper) The .308 and .300 Whisper are the first which come to mind.

 

[Avenger29]

was under the impression .22lr was often suppressed and used to take out cameras, lights, dogs ect. From my very very limited knowledge, a .22lr does not have the power or range to be considered a "sniper" weapon.

Yep. Not a sniper weapon. Close range only.

 

[Ward83]

I remember seeing a documentary on mob weapons too. They mentioned that in the early days (like before the tommy-gun era), many of the guys carried small .22 pistols, because they were quiet, and easy to hide. Still, I think the idea was to get in close, or even point blank to take someone out.

 

[tnieto2004]

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503007#Post503007

Here is some testing that you might like to look at

 

[Harry Tuttle]

http://club.guns.ru/eng/sv99.html

 

[GigaBuist]

The Israilies tried suppressed 10/22s as less-lethal rifles, but they proved to be too lethal.

I've seen that before too. It was years back and I found something on the various weapons the IDF has used and the Ruger 10/22 was mentioned. The idea was that they'd aim at the knees of whoever seemed to be the leader of a rioting mob to take them down but not kill them. After awhile they noticed they were actually killing people and dropped the idea.

Note to self: Don't tick off the IDF. Their idea of "nice" is shooting you in the knees.

 

[SaMx]

yeah, but along the same lines the American 180 (a very high capacity .22 machine gun) was originally designed to suppress prison riots.

 

[blkbrd666]

Well, the turkey test makes me curious what .22 Magnum would do out of a bolt action rifle???

 

[cracked butt]

The .22 is very underrated- people on gunboards such as this and many others have been conditioned to think that you need a .30 in order to kill a man.

That turkey experiment in th elink is no suprise to me whatsoever. I used to shoot at a 8" gong at 270 yards with a .22 rifle at a club I used to belong to from a prone position. I didn't use any ballistic calculators, bt simply walked the shots into the target- after 3-4 shots, hitting the gong on every shot was very easy.

My father, who taught Hunter Safety for years, did a demonstration for every class to show what the 'little .22' was capable of. He'd cut 5 8" lengths of 2x4 and make a target by gluing spacers in between them so that they'd look like this from the side view:

|:|:|:|:|

Firing a .22 from a rifle at 50 yards, the bullet would penetrate all the pieces of 2x4- every time.


If a .22 bullet could penetrate that much at 50 yards, imagine what it would do to a relatively thin human skull at 100.

Don't dismiss th e.22 as something weak and ineffective.

 

[goon]

The .22 LR with a half decent LRN bullet fired from a rifle will shoot clear through one car door, through the passenger compartment, and exit on the other side most of the time. It is not something to be trifled with or underestimated.
It wouldn't be an ideal cartridge for most military applications, but imagine a lone shooter firing on you from concealed positions every time he gets the chance.
Now imagine that he's using a weapon that can be silenced pretty easily with various scrounged materials. Add in that his effective range is probably crowding the 200 yard mark in calm winds and that he can carry 500 rounds with very little trouble.

I wouldn't want to face that.

Always give it the respect it deserves.

 

[Dksimon]

I personally love my .22. I would not attempt to kill a person with it unless it was my last ditch effort, and even then it would have to be a well placed shot. I believe in humane killings and hate to see suffering.

 

[Baba Louie]

IIRC, Jeff Cooper wrote something about use of a suppressed .22lr for riot control by a designated marksman taking out the instigator(s) of said riotous mob. Once they go quietly down it being hoped that the now leaderless mob would find other things to worry about... or words to that effect. (I miss reading new monthly Cooperisms)

While a .22lr is fine for 'sniping' tree rats at 50 yds, I'd be dubious about any longer ranges successfully quelling an armed opponent using that round... on the other hand, I have read accounts of 'hush-puppy' .22lr handguns used for sentry elimination by sneaky jungle warriors in SEA... which may or may not be "sniping" as we think of it today. I tend to think of a "sniper" as a (Long range?) hidden rifleman utilizing precise placement of an adequately powered round to eliminate an opposing target. YMMV

But then again, I'd think that getting popped in the noggin or chest with a .22 from an unknown, unseen rifleman could really ruin ones day and/or plans (see Jeff Cooper thing again).

 

[JFrame]

I'm speaking anecdotally, and am too busy/lazy to research, but FWIW -- I've read that the Chechnyan separatists have been using .22 sniper rifles to some good effect as terror weapons against the Russians. Soda-bottle sound suppression apparently aids in masking the report in an urban setting.

I've read that these snipers aim for the genitals, which -- as I could imagine -- ups the ante on the terror and demoralizing effect...

 

[Guitargod1985]

I've read that these snipers aim for the genitals, which -- as I could imagine -- ups the ante on the terror and demoralizing effect...

That is one of the most horrible things I've ever heard of.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I'd rather be shot in the genitals and live than in the head and not live. I agree that the .22 long rifle is underestimated and undervalued. It's is quite capable of killing. That link to the 300 yard turkey test is eye-opening - I didn't know it'd retain *that* much energy at such a long range. I can't wait to get a suppressor for my Aguila 60 gr SSS-dedicated rifle.

My understanding is that many a professional assassin prefer .22 shorts out of a handgun, suppressed. Two to the back of the head. Snipers, well yep, them too when near-complete-silence is required - that Soviet sniper rifle linked to above wasn't built for nuttin'.

 

[El Tejon]

Jeff Cooper discussed the role of the .22lr in certain circumstances. It's a chapter in To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth.