.22LR Beretta Bobcat?

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jar said:
I have quite a few .380s but for a softer shooting manageable recommendation take a look at the Remington RM380. It's aluminum framed double action with a true slide lock, a slide that is very easy to rack, mag release from both sides, slim with absolutely nothing to catch on clothing. With the flat base magazine I get a good two finger grip while with the magazine finger extension, I can get a full three finger grip. Capacity is 6 +1 rounds and it has shown itself to be very tolerant of ammo type or brand feeding everything I've tried flawlessly.

The flat base magazine is on the blue frame.
View attachment 1047459
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Nice. Are these rare now days? I want a reliable, decent .380 without breaking the bank. Looking at a S&W Bodyguard.
 
Autodidactic said:
Nice. Are these rare now days? I want a reliable, decent .380 without breaking the bank. Looking at a S&W Bodyguard.
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I also have the S&W BG and it is my second most carried .380.

The RM380 though is much softer shooting, harder to control under stress and slower to return to POA for second shots. In addition, the slide on the BG is several orders of magnitude harder to rack than the RM380. The BG came with one magazine while the RM380 came with two.

Here are the two in question shot sitting on top of my Sig P290-RS for size comparison.

BG380small.jpg RM380small.jpg

Also note the mag release on the right side of the RM380. In that photo there was some skateboard tape on the BG slide to help with racking. After about a year's use I no longer needed the extra grip on the slide.
 
trackskippy said:
As we get further and further down into the little guns, especially with someone who has little training or experience, I dont agree. These are not guns for beginners and/or the inexperienced. Very often, even experienced shooters dont do all the well with them.

I think a lot of those people who carry these things would be better off "without" the gun, as that way there is less chance they would do something stupid because they have it, and they actually think they are armed and prepared because they do. And no matter what the gun is, suggesting that they carry them unloaded just makes it even worse and no sense.

These types of guns are not "primary" guns, and many of them arent even good as a backup. Yet, they seem to be pushed pretty so hard on those who shouldnt be using them. And a lot of those people probably shouldn't carry a more realistic gun either. Just "having" a gun doesn't make you armed.

I think a lot of the problem here is, we have different levels of user/carrier knowledge and experience and the mentalities that go with it. The more the experience and training, the lower on the list the smaller guns go as a primary choice.

What Ive never understood too is, if I feel the need to take "a" gun with me to the store for a late-night run, why wouldn't it be the same gun I carry all day, and gives me the best chance at coming out ahead, should I need it? Makes no sense to me to do otherwise. If Im going to need it, Im going to need it, and Ill want the one that gives me the best shot at it.
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We agree.
I'll use myself as an example, when I was limited by work clothes (tucked shirt / dress pants) a pocket 380 was literally "better than nothing".
I'm not limited by work clothes now, nor do I do "good area" vs "bad area" carry; Glock 19 minimum everywhere, wherever.
My philosophy is strive to carry a pistol that would be preferred if you had to defend yourself, can't say I'd prefer anything less than a Glock 19.
 
Terry G said:
I've said this time and again when as a Firearm Instructor or as a private citizen don't "just drop something in my pocket 'cause I'm only going to the store". Carry a gun every time as if your life depended on it.
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We agree.
If somebody(s) action merits use of lethal force, I don't want less in my hand cause I'm standing in a nice spot.
Whatever gun is (would be) preferred in a "bad area" (area of perceived greater threat) is what's carried. (For those that think like that)
If its not deemed good enough for a "bad area" then its not good enough. If one wouldn't carry a Bobcat in a "bad area" - there ya go.
I don't do good area / bad area but some people do and I discourage it.
Strive to carry a gun you would prefer to defend yourself with everywhere.
 
jar said:
I also have the S&W BG and it is my second most carried .380.

The RM380 though is much softer shooting, harder to control under stress and slower to return to POA for second shots. In addition, the slide on the BG is several orders of magnitude harder to rack than the RM380. The BG came with one magazine while the RM380 came with two.

Here are the two in question shot sitting on top of my Sig P290-RS for size comparison.

View attachment 1047688 View attachment 1047689

Also note the mag release on the right side of the RM380. In that photo there was some skateboard tape on the BG slide to help with racking. After about a year's use I no longer needed the extra grip on the slide.
Click to expand...

Please clarify for me, @jar. Are you saying the RM380 is harder to control under stress and slower to return to POA than the S&W BG?
 
problem with those remington pistols is all three had a pretty short life so if you fall in love with it a break a part you are kind of screwed. Hopefully someone brings them back. Plus side is those rm380s were based off a 9mm design so major components slide, barrel, frame..... should hold up pretty easily. Numrich got a lot of the parts when remington axed the pistol line so you might want to hop over and get a few minor parts if possible.

I like the feel of the bodyguard but they feel kind of lightly built. I want to say the barrels are cast but I am not 100% sure on that. They fit the hand really well (much better than most pocket 380s) and I like the DAO long trigger on a pocket auto with a double strike capability. Seems like S&W always gets the ergos right. Whomever runs that department should get a raise.

You might check out the sccy cpx 380. A little larger but not much. Soft reliable shooter thats design was built off a 9mm frame for the most part. production is on hold right now Due to new poducts being introduced so you might have to wait until spring. They are very nice and plesent to shoot.

Real sleeper if you can handle going up to 9mm is the beretta apx carry. Thats a well designed pistol thats very durable and has been vetted (originally was the nano). They dont break and are priced really well. It would not suprised me if the design was based on the 40s&w. Just a solid and well thought out pocket 9 with a steal subframe. They are really more of a Nano 2.0 than they are an APX

If you are dead set on an iddy biddy 380 dont overlook the Kahr. Its a good one. Its really small though.

beretta pico is the best built I have seen for the modern 380s but the grip is really small for my hands. Be nice if I could thow the bodyguard lower on the pico.
 
I've carried a 21 a lot at the coast. The one I carried has been shot thousands of times. Very reliable with the standard velocity ammo. Stingers and such are a bit much. You can tell they are battering the frame. I actually had to replace the spring/ trigger guard after 20 years in the salt water. It's not impossible to rack to load. Maybe if your hands are weak. My hands hurt from years of powerlifting and turning wrenches but i can still rack mine. It takes only what force a 22 round can muster to rack the slide. Otherwise it wouldn't work. That's not much. Accuracy is better with that one I carried than my others.

I also have a few others I never shot a lot. The sao models are a good bit thinner. I have a couple in 25. (950b jetfire I believe.)
 
crestoncowboy said:
Maybe if your hands are weak.
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I have developed shooting pains in my hands related to 40 years of turning wrenches (and I need to put in at least another 10 on the job). The strength is still there, but pain will make me lose my grip on occasion. From what I've heard and read from my predecessors, my situation isn't unique.

One thing is for sure, a little Bobcat slide requires a stiffer set of springs to hold back .22 LR than a heavier slide on a Ruger MK/Buckmark/S&W Victory. Probably why the Bobcat and its kin have the tip up barrel, for folks that can't move that slide fully well.
 
chicharrones said:
I have developed shooting pains in my hands related to 40 years of turning wrenches (and I need to put in at least another 10 on the job). The strength is still there, but pain will make me lose my grip on occasion. From what I've heard and read from my predecessors, my situation isn't unique.

One thing is for sure, a little Bobcat slide requires a stiffer set of springs to hold back .22 LR than a heavier slide on a Ruger MK/Buckmark/S&W Victory. Probably why the Bobcat and its kin have the tip up barrel, for folks that can't move that slide fully well.
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I do find the Bobcat slide manageable even with the hammer down while my Taurus PT-22 Poly is simply impossible for me to rack if the hammer is down.
 
chicharrones said:
I have developed shooting pains in my hands related to 40 years of turning wrenches (and I need to put in at least another 10 on the job). The strength is still there, but pain will make me lose my grip on occasion. From what I've heard and read from my predecessors, my situation isn't unique.

One thing is for sure, a little Bobcat slide requires a stiffer set of springs to hold back .22 LR than a heavier slide on a Ruger MK/Buckmark/S&W Victory. Probably why the Bobcat and its kin have the tip up barrel, for folks that can't move that slide fully well.
Click to expand...

Your hands sound like mine. I have strength. Can do weighted pull-ups, deadlifts etc etc. Palm a basketball. But between wrenching, shooting, lifting, and breaking knuckles over stupid peoples faces, I have pain. The smaller the object i try to grasp the more pain I have. Being the baddest 20 year old made me feel like an 80 year old by the time I got to 40. Lol. I wrench out of my shop as a hobby. I love building cars and it gives me some excuse for buying more tools. Lol. Luckily I have a job that requires next to no physical work. Just managing. Mentally it's exhausting. Running a small screw driver or Allen key is about the worst for me. Lol. The smaller the item the worse it is.

I also service equipment for several companies that do excavating. The career machine operators have it rough too. I know a couple who can't even grip the control sticks. They just rest their hands on top of them. Their hands have to be pried open some times.

The mk2 is just as hard to rack for me because you only have 1/2 inch of area to grasp. Kind of a two finger deal. Not hard though. And the spring is softer. The Neos, 422, victory, etc etc are all about the same. The little phenix is a bit stiffer and narrow too. I have everything from built up heavily sprung 10mms to several of the tip up Beretta. I have no trouble racking any of them. My daughter's rack my 21A just fine. They love it. Never tried a Taurus knock off of the Beretta. I almost bought one cheap at dunhams a few year ago until I saw they had no external hammer.

I will note that I've experimented with several of the da/sa Beretta and many of them will in fact fire with the safety on of you pull the trigger hard enough. Not stupid hard but a bit more than normal pressure. In Da or Sa mode with decent pressure on the trigger. The one I carried for years did it first but then I tried some more and could get them to fire.
 
chicharrones said:
Back to the Bobcat . . . I really did like plinking with mine back in the day. It was extra satisfying when I'd actually connect with soda cans with that little gun.
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Mine was more accurate than it had a right to be and would hit pop cans further out than most would believe. Another one I had shot off to the left so far it was useless.
 
chicharrones said:
I forgot about that tip up barrel. My short term memory is showing. :eek:
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I also shouldn't make it sound so totally impossible.

I've learned how to rack the slide on my Pt-22 Poly but it did take time and also a change in how I grip the slide. I have to make sure that my thumb and index finger are making contact with all of the slide serrations, it's a matter of having the maximum surface area possible and then using the push with one hand while pulling with the other technique.

It is significantly harder to rack than my Berretta 21A.
 
The elusive Beretta Model 20 in .25acp. The gun is the same basic size as the original 950 and quite a bit thinner and smaller than a 21A about-beretta-20-1481641266.jpg Also there is this little tid bit :
"The Beretta 20 may be hard to get, but is a famous self-cocking pistol with an external hammer and an inertial system tip barrel. The Beretta 20 was the first model of this type and came in .25 Auto ammunition. It was introduced to the market ot 1967. Instead of the previous torsion type wire spring a new model 20 was designed with a completely new system. On each side of the frame were designed quite heavy pivoting arms that contact the slide, and also lobes on each arm rest on nearly vertical coil springs which are in tubular housings attached to the frame."
Here is the inner working on a used one :
pix895293819.jpg
I recently got an extra barrel for mine and had Mach IV thread it . I intend to use his Canine mini suppressor on it, just for fun :)
 
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