.22lr killing ability taken too lightly?

[Skylerbone]

I've often wondered how effective they would be as sniper rifles. A place like Ukraine. Send them about 10,000 suppressed pink Cricketts (maybe not pink). Modify the stock to insert a 100 round box of ammo in a pocket behind the butt stock and put them to work. A guy shot in the throat may or may not be killed, but most likely put out of action. A nasty form of guerrilla warfare designed to encourage Russian soldiers to lay down arms and go home. The whole lot of them cheaper than 1 patriot missile shot and in the big picture of things, could be a lot more effective.

Any merit to this or no?

Little merit to it as the Political Machine seems incapable of demoralization. Send out civilian “snipers” and Putin will send in missiles aimed at civilians. Check that, already happening. Another time/place/enemy your theory may apply. Not so much vs enemies bent on seizing resources with no regard for human loss on either side.

 

[d2wing]

I knew an old Cajun dude who lived in the swamp who took a lot of deer with a .22LR and a spot light.

That happens in rural areas in Northern Minnesota as well. I know a guy that bragged he only ate venison for meat.

 

[Old Hobo]

Actually, the lethality of the .22 LR is predicated on accuracy. Head shots kill.

A disciplined shooter, plus an accurate rifle, plus quality sights, plus quality ammunition = clean kills & meat on the dinner table.

This isn't rocket science.

 

[Swampman]

Head shots kill.

They do, but it's shots through the brain or brain stem that (usually) kill quickly and allow you to efficiently reduce shot game to table meat.

A deer with its nose or lower jaw shot away doesn't die any faster than one that's been gut shot.

 

[wombat13]

The only thing my father couldn't kill with a .22 long rifle cartridge on our catfish farm was a beaver.

We had a severe porcupine problem on our property when we first bought it. They like to eat hydraulic hoses and ruin potentially good logs when they chew the bark off trees. According to NY DEC, a stable population for a property our size was 25 porkies. We killed 130 in the first three years (and those were only in the sections we worked or hunted those first years). A porkie will take 10 center mass .22lrs and keep walking. I’m sure it would die later but I don’t like that. Has to be a head shot with .22 for a clean kill. It’s very hard to tell where the head is when they are on a tree 60 feet up and 30 yards away. They’re the same color as the tree and just look like a lump.

There are much better rounds for porkies, including: .17 hmr, .44 mag (revolver and rifle), .50 cal muzzleloader, .300 win mag, and 3.5” magnum turkey loads. My favorites are the .17hmr and the turkey gun. Shoot a porkie with the turkey gun and it is usually blown out of the tree and the quills rain down.

 

[Picher]

It depends on shot placement. I watched my father shoot a hog between the eyes at point blank range while it was eating corn but the angle was wrong. The hog just grunted and kept eating the corn while blood was pouring out of it's nose and had to be shot again.
I was accidentally shot in the hand with a 22 hollow point and believe me I have a great respect for the round.
I don't use it for anything larger than groundhogs and raccoons.

Actually groundhogs (which we called woodchucks when we hunted them) don't seem to die quickly when shot, unless it's done with an quick-expanding centerfire bullet...at least at distances beyond 10 yards or so, or shot in the head. When we hunted them, we did so as practice for hunting larger game at varied distances up to 300 yards or so. We used pretty powerful centerfire cartridges and limited how close we'd shoot them to about 100 yards...at least from prone or sitting shots. I once shot at one that was about 400 yards, but probably missed more than I hit beyond 250 yds. or so.

 

[dweis]

I read a news story last week about a man being killed by a 17mm pellet from and air rifle. It struck him in the head at close distance. However, the fact that a 17 mm pellet can be lethal is not going to make me drop my EDC from 9mm. A well thrown rock can be lethal. So can a pointed stick. The 22 caliber is better than the pellet, pointed stick and rock. The lethality of 22 in any dimension or pressure is affected by the density of the target and barriers if any. That is true whether the target os a beast or a human.

Greg Ellifritz’ study of caliber lethality determined that more people care killed with 22 caliber than any other caliber. He also pointed out that was mostly due to two obvious reasons. 22 is the most popular caliber worldwide. So a 22 is likely to be the only alternative. For some when it comes to. SD. Also, for the inexperienced shooter (majority of people in the world) it is much easier to attain an acceptable level of accuracy. I simply believe the more robust the target the better to have a larger caliber.

 

[rust collector]

man being killed by a 17mm pellet from and air rifle.

A 17mm pellet would be about 67 caliber, so I am pretty sure you are referring to .177 caliber, or the diameter of a BB. I know a fellow who tried to run deer off from wrecking his fruit trees. He shot one with an inexpensive Crosman pump up rifle. Down went the deer, and the conservation officer was called. He confirmed that it was rare, but in his experience this wasn't the first deer killed by a tiny pellet or BB. A slingshot was later purchased for that task.

Air guns and rimfires deserve respect, but should never be relied upon for quick stops or critters that can't be lifted easily with one hand.

 

[Hokkmike]

The OP's title for this thread is the ultimate pun which answers the question... A 22 is best for target, small varmints, and plinking fun. Notice I didn't say "only for"....

 

[sarduy]

I'm more and more convinced that shot placement is more important than calibers as the years pass.

 

[DeepSouth]

A 17mm pellet would be about 67 caliber, so I am pretty sure you are referring to .177 caliber, or the diameter of a BB. I know a fellow who tried to run deer off from wrecking his fruit trees. He shot one with an inexpensive Crosman pump up rifle. Down went the deer, and the conservation officer was called. He confirmed that it was rare, but in his experience this wasn't the first deer killed by a tiny pellet or BB. A slingshot was later purchased for that task.

Reminds me of a family reunion where a kid (distant cousin) went “hunting” in the woods with his new BB gun.. a Powerline 880. He came back later saying he had killed one. No one believed him at first, but eventually he talked someone into looking.
An Ol’ doe had gotten her hind legs tangled up in an old barbed wire fence and he had dispatched her, it was not a one shot kill.

Apologies to the OP for the thread drift.

 

[film495]

I'm more and more convinced that shot placement is more important than calibers as the years pass.

right. if you miss, the bullet type and cartrdige don't really matter much at all unless you're planning on a loud bang and excessive flash to work in your favor

 

[BushMaster-15]

.22 RF Killing humans ?. Yes the MOB would most certainly agree ,as would a majority of Assassins . Close enough shot placement YEP every time . .22 RF are extremely malleable and hence WHY they were bullets of choice ( No discernible rifling for comparison ) also were fairly easy to put a can on and recoil what recoil . Ammunition easily obtainable and nearly impossible to trace .
I've got BB-caps or CB caps that are older than anyone left above ground .

 

[Varminterror]

.22 RF Killing humans ?. Yes the MOB would most certainly agree ,as would a majority of Assassins . Close enough shot placement YEP every time . .22 RF are extremely malleable and hence WHY they were bullets of choice ( No discernible rifling for comparison ) also were fairly easy to put a can on and recoil what recoil . Ammunition easily obtainable and nearly impossible to trace .
I've got BB-caps or CB caps that are older than anyone left above ground .

Me thinks you’re reading too many spy novels…

 

[C-grunt]

 

[ECVMatt]

You beat me to it, but this is a good addition to this discussion.

 

[Reloadron]

.22lr killing ability taken too lightly?

On February 27, 2012, six students were shot at Chardon High School in Chardon, Ohio, resulting in the deaths of three of them. Witnesses said that the shooter had a personal rivalry with one of his victims. Two other wounded students were also hospitalized, one of whom sustained several serious injuries that have resulted in permanent paralysis. The fifth student suffered a minor injury, and the sixth a superficial wound.

I remember this well. Chardon, Ohio is a few miles from me. The gun used was a Ruger MKII .22 LR pistol. The shooter T.L. Lane never emptied the 10 round magazine. Never underestimate the killing power of a .22 LR round. There are endless stories of dead people as a result of a .22 LR gunshot wound.

Ron

 

[ECVMatt]

Here is a link to Bella Twin story and the Cooey Ace rifle she used.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/be...-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz7pFgxwagZ

It is interesting to note where she shot the bear and continued to shoot it several more times for insurance.

I thinks this story speaks more about shot placement and knowledge of game animals then the prowess of the .22LR, but a great story nonetheless.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Me thinks you’re reading too many spy novels…

I could most certainly put you in touch with more than a couple of forensic scientist ,as well as a few medical examiners who would verify My statement . For the record ; I've Not read a fiction or a novel since 7 Th. grade and that was J. R. R. Tolkien's Trilogy .
I am a prolific reader but mostly Scientific ,Industrial ,Engineering and Medical publications . I have standing subscriptions to NEJM as well as AJM to name but two .

Perhaps it's why I can't believe in " Global Warming " and NO realistic scientist could . Climate change YES ,it happens with the Planets evolutionary changes . NO amount of additional tax $'s will change our planets evolution ,as the planet itself is erupting and contributes 100's of X the greenhouse emissions ; supposedly caused by human activity . I believe P T Barnum may have phrased it correctly .
Just in case You wanted to know .

 

[Varminterror]

I could most certainly put you in touch with more than a couple of forensic scientist ,as well as a few medical examiners who would verify My statement .

Are medical examiners particularly knowledgable about espionage?

Too many of your posts are completely whackadoo, much like your response here. I won’t be seeing them any more.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Are medical examiners particularly knowledge about espionage?

Too many of your posts are completely whackadoo, much like your response here. I won’t be seeing them any more.

No as to cause of death of course !. Now as to your viewing my post it's always your prerogative .

It would seem you are the one most concerned about what or what I don't post . Others appear OK with it and it's Not degrading or humiliating nor disrespecting anyone or their opinions . I try to get along ,I've been at it for a good # of years . Yet it seems You are the one that's argumentative . Therefore I can only assume logically then I must threaten your on line presence of some sort of delusional authority;

You work for facecrook or Boogle by chance

 

[d2wing]

Many interesting points. I think that the original OP's opinion that the .22 LR can be lethal and effective for certain purposes is verified. However, it's performance can be unpredictable against larger creatures. When I was young there was an old man in our church that had been shot in the head. Not sure but I think it was his wife with a .22 pistol. Close to 65 years ago so details are fuzzy. Anyway, it didn't seem to bother him. From killing a world record bear to not harming a man, both shot in the head. I have no conclusions.

 

[Old Hobo]

Will the .22 LR take-out game that you wouldn't think it capable of doing so; sure OK, it will and has done so for a century and a half. Will it shoot through an animal's skull? Yes, many critters have a thin enough skulls for the .22 LR to compromise it at close range.

Question is, should you task it to do so? No, probably not.

Poachers have used the .22 LR for one and a half centuries. Do professional assassins trust it for wet jobs? No. Two reasons, 1) insufficient penetrative energy (especially against thick portions of the skull; example,the occipital bone protuberance); 2) the .22 LR is a rim-fire and therefore is not a 100 percent certain ignition (used to, firearms manufacturers used TWO firing pins for rim-fires to attempt to more certainly ensure ignition). I've been shooting firearms well over a half-century / gone through tens of thousands+ of rounds of ammunition. I've had many misfires with .22 LR cartridges, but NOT with center-fire ammo. Center-fire ammo fired in quality firearms ignites. Wet-jobs require ultimate certainty -- poaching animals, not so much. Assassins used to begin with the .32 -- the .32 automatic, most often. They needed >= 60 grain bullets with which to begin -- absolute bare minimum. Most all .32 automatics have fixed barrels, thus are much easier to affix silencers and get profoundly few jams, if any. "Back in the day", THE silencers to obtain were contracted/built through a crew of Chicago police detectives via the black market (connections required). (In the "for what it's worth" department, the KKK used to have its central power located in the Atlanta police department's detective division.)

So, YES, the "lowly" .22 LR is far more lethal than the hoi polloi give it credit; yet, professionals go with heavier bullets fired from center-fire weapons. The men of my grandfathers' generation (born around 1900), gave a lot of credit to center-fire .32 caliber rifles and handguns (this is a whole other topic, way too large a topic to pursue in this string) ... i.e. NOT the .22 long / .22 LR rim-fire.

Do I love the .22 LR cartridge? Yes, most definitely so.
.

 

[Varminterror]

This is exactly aligned with my own experiences which drove my statement back on page 2 here.

We run out of the ability to reliably connect on target before the 22LR runs out of ability to kill when it connects.

The results befalling these guys is exactly what we see time and time again for 22LR’s at distance. Connecting at 300 is relatively reliable, 400+ becomes a game of statistical probability distribution and highly dependent upon cooperating winds - which aren’t motivated to be such.

Given:

1) There exists a relatively close range threshold beyond which common wind measurement/estimation accuracy is insufficient to pick which side of a target a bullet might fall - literally +/-1-2mph estimate error means two consecutive bullets might fall on opposite sides of the target.

2) The wind blows about 100 days per year here in KS above that threshold where wind drift becomes unreliable or unmanageable with a 22LR.

So if we’re playing a thought experiment of “how far is 22LR reliably deadly,” with those given realities in mind, I’m pretty confident in the idea that within 300yrds, if I needed to end the life of an assailant, recovery notwithstanding, my odds with a 22LR would be exceptionally high, nearing 100%. Death might not come quickly, but the first connecting shot would either be sufficiently detrimental to end the engagement, or to enable improved performance upon re-engagement. Whether that means they drop dead where they stood, limp away to die later, or they stagger just long enough for me to send follow up shots and continue to slow and ultimately stop their approach, or they wither sufficiently for me to approach and administer a follow up, 300yrds is a very attainable effective range where delivering on center mass is sufficiently reliably and the performance of the bullet is sufficiently potent to purposefully deliver sufficient damage on target to achieve the necessary outcome. 400-500 might be reasonable on ~1/3-1/2 of days, but 300 is attainable on almost any day. Not just suppressing fire to discourage approach, but effective fire with ability to physically end the assault.

It was pretty laughable to hear the prediction at the beginning when he thought the bullet would bounce off without penetrating, then again laughable to hear them committing early that they would back up until the bullets WOULD bounce off of the dummy - just knowing they would be shooting for a week to land a shot against the dummy from a range that far out.

Reminding - ballistic gelatin calibration standard method is a 590fps steel .177” BB, penetrating to 2.95-3.74”… so we gotta realize, a 40grn bullet at the same 590fps will penetrate better than a 5.5grn BB of the same speed, and a 22LR passes 590fps around 600yrds… and that would suggest at LEAST ~3” of penetration, NOT a bounce off… I’ll assume a human - which can throw a baseball around 85-90mph/120-130fps - can’t throw a 40grn bullet hard enough to reliably penetrate skin, and we know 590fps will penetrate greater than 3” of calibrated gelatin, AND knowing a 22LR is still over 400fps at 1000yrds… eh, there’s no distance I’d willingly stand in front of one, but I’d bet HEAVILY against almost all shooters making contact on a human sized target past 300-500.

 

[Simplereloader81]

As a kid i had a pellet gun that only went 500 fps. My father told me dont shoot at squirrels or rabbits because it wont kill them
He was right....at 50 yards. But i got closer and killed a rabbit, many doves and about 100 squirrels with it. They would barely penetrate the squirrels chest cavity but they would eventually kill them and i remember my father laughing as i asked him to skin them for me.