.22lr vs .17hmr?

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"Since I'm not a hunter, it sounds like the .22, whether in LR, WMR or .22 Magnum is the way to go."

I think we need to clear something up here: .22 WMR = .22 Magnum

WMR is "Winchester Mag Rimfire"

It is basicly a .22 LR with a much longer case and the bullet goes twice as fast. 40 gr bullets at 2200 FPS if I remember correctly, compared to 1200 FPS for .22 LR.

.22 Mag gives you twice the range of .22 LR, and the ammo is cheaper than .17 HMR. The downside is that it's still $4.00 to $5.00 per box of 50, so .22 LR is still much cheaper...

Here is some info from www.chuckhawks.com

.22 WMR (.22 Magnum):


Winchester introduced the .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire (WMR) in the 1950's. It was the first new .22 rimfire cartridge in decades. Its long case contains a lot more powder than the Long Rifle, and the cartridge operates just about at the pressure limit for rimfire ammunition. Like the Long Rifle, the Magnum is chambered in a variety of rifles and revolvers. For the handgunner, one of the neatest of these is the single action "convertible" revolver that is supplied with two interchangable cylinders, one for .22 LR cartridges and one for .22 Mag. cartridges.

Bullet diameter for the Magnum is .224", the same as for the .22 WRF and most centerfire .22's. Its case is slightly fatter than a Long Rifle case and, as loaded by Winchester-Western, the Magnum's original 40 grain bullet came with a real jacket, not just copper plating. Bullet styles include full metal jacket (non-expanding) and jacketed hollow-point (expanding) types. The SD of the 40 grain bullets is .114. As originally loaded a MV of 2000 fps was claimed from a 22" rifle barrel, and 1550 fps from a 6.5" handgun barrel.

Available bullet weights have expanded to include 30 grain and 50 grain bullets (SD .142) in addition to the original 40 grain bullets. CCI, Federal, Remington, and Winchester all load .22 WMR ammunition. There is also a .22 WMR shot cartridge, loaded with #11 shot.

The standard 40 grain bullet is now advertised to have a muzzle velocity of 1,910 fps in a 22" rifle barrel and carries 324 ft. lbs. of energy. From the 6.5" barrel of a revolver the velocity is 1400 fps with an energy of 174 ft. lbs.

The .22 Magnum is a much more powerful cartridge than the .22 LR. At 100 yards its 40 grain bullet is still carrying 156 ft. lbs. of energy, more than the .22 LR develops at the muzzle (compared in 22" barrels). The flat shooting WMR can be zeroed to hit +0.6" at 100 yards when fired from a scoped rifle, and will give a point-blank range (+/- 1.5") of about 124 yards.

The power of the Magnum, coupled with the violent expansion provided by its JHP bullet, makes it too much cartridge for shooting cottontail rabbits and squirrels at close range unless only head shot are taken. Body shots tend to literally blow these small animals apart.

Used for self defence in a revolver, the .22 WMR has compiled a 42% one shot stop rate according to Marshall and Sanow. This is far superior to the .22 LR and .25 ACP, and makes the .22 WMR the best of the small bore handgun cartridges.

Within its trajectory limitation of about 125 yards, the extra destructive power of the .22 Magnum's JHP bullet moves it into the varmint rifle cartridge class. Its low report makes it one of the best varmint cartridges for shooting on the small ranches and farms typical of semi-populated areas and in the country outside of small to medium sized towns.

For years there were lever, pump, and bolt action rifles chambered for the .22 Magnum, but very few autoloaders. This is because the Magnum operates at pressures above those deemed safe for simple blowback actions (the type of action used for all autoloading .22 LR rifles). The rifle manufacturers seemed to have licked the problem in recent years, however, as there is now a selection of autoloading sporting rifles chambered for the .22 WMR. For the serious small game and varmint hunter there are a number of accurate, high grade .22 Magnum bolt action rifles.
 
David,

Thanks for the excellent post.....that clears up a lot! I've only just started venturing into the rifle world (bought my SKS a couple months ago) and I'm astounded at the number of calibers and loads that are out there. I've observed that compared to handguns, rifle calibers and gun selection is a far more complicated issue.
 
"I've observed that compared to handguns, rifle calibers and gun selection is a far more complicated issue."

There are some who would say that is an understatement :D
 
The drop in conversion for .17 HMR are for the 10/22M (magnum) not the 10/22 (long rifle). Folks have converted the 10/22 to .22 mag and .17 HMR but requires some serious modifcations to the receiver.

Currently, Hornady, CCI, Remington, and Federal are making the ammo for .17 HMR. I'm sure Winchester won't waste too much time getting something out. The CCI and Federal ammo (both V-Max hollow points)appear identical, they are both part of Blount. Hornady and Remington also look alike (including packaging) other than tip color and labels.

CORRECTION : The CCi and Fed are Speer TNTs and the Hron and Rem are V-Max.
 
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I like the 17hmr, its main shortcoming is the lack of different loads (there's only still one, really) and slightly higher ammo cost. 22WMR has a wider ammo variety, and carries well all the way to 200 yds or so, where the 17hrm drops off rapidly at around 150 and its bullets begin to fail to expand. The 17 suffers less windage than the 22WMR does at distances under 150 yards however, just because it gets there so much faster. Jacketed spitzer bullets was something they should have done to .22LR and 22WMR years ago.
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And I don't know how much of an issue the higher 17hmr ammo cost is, because I know from owning .22LR target guns that there's no point in shooting crap ammo when you can't even see how well you're really shooting. The cheapest .22LR ammo I buy now is Green Tag, at $10 for 100. I know that Thunderbolt is $2 for 50, but it shoots all over the target, so what good is it? -->So if the cheaper 22WMR ammo shoots lousy, it won't be "saving you any money" because you won't want to use it anyway.
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That said though, there's not a lot of guns in the caliber yet.
Numerous bolt rifles, a few revolvers, at least one semiauto pistol coming out, and the only off-the-shelf semiauto rifle currently available is the Remington 597 in .17hmr. Ruger 10/22 Magnums only need a $200 barrel swap however.
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Any gun that's in .22WMR should only need a barrel change, but the main company that made 22WMR semiauto rifles and semiauto pistols in 22WMR was AMT, who went out of business several years ago.
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I don't know of a store that doesn't sell .22LR. That said, I only know of 2 stores that sell .17's..

Also, when you get right down to it, I'll echo what everbody else has said. When you have 100+ guns, you will still find the .22LR fun as all hell to shoot; I don't know if the same can be said for the .17's.. Also, the ammo cost alone reduce your practice if you go .17's.

Get a .22LR, and if it still doesn't fill your small game needs, then buy a .17..
 
.22LR is the cheapest choice. While it's true there are duds in the average brick, they are so cheap it's hardly worth talking about.

.22 mag is a decent choice. Much better for self-defense, obviously, and sometimes making a nice loud BANG! is part of the fun of plinking.

.17 HMR has been the Big ThingTM for many years, though I suspect the new Ruger .204 will take away some of its luster (4000 fps is pretty goldarn fast :) ).
 
10/22

get a 10/22 laminate with SS from walmart for under 200 bucks, its a walmart exclusive version, very nice looking and you can modify it to you hearts content, it will only get better.
 
... .17 HMR has been the Big Thing for many years, though I suspect the new Ruger .204 will take away some of its luster (4000 fps is pretty goldarn fast ).... - Mulliga
-Ehhhh,,,,, I dunno about that. First of all the 17hmr is a rimfire and since rimfires cannot be reloaded, people expect them to be relatively inexpensive to buy.
-Secondly, (it would seem that) many shooters don't see how a 204 is radically different from a 17 Remington. You can load a 17 Rem to 4000 fps but the barrel is toasted in only a couple thousand shots. Ruger claims that the 204 lets barrels last far longer but the shooting community didn't seem to swallow that. My bet is that the Ruger 204 will end up where the other Ruger-invented calibers went.
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Now, .27 rimfire on the other hand....
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Sako is coming out with a 3-in-1 rifle with a plastic stock and IIRC a stainless barrel. By purchasing extra barrels you can shoot .22LR, .22WMR and .17HMR. I haven't seen any word on the cost, but I assume it will be reasonably expensive considering that a Finnfire goes for about $700.

John
 
AS much as I absolutley love the .17hmr, get a .22 first. Mainly economics.

I had 5 .22 rifles and 2 pistols, before I got a .17
I had all these before the .17 even came into existance but if I had to do it over again, I'd probably do about the same.

.22 is cheap and fun.

.17 is for fun, but it ain't cheap.

Smoke
 
HMR ammo

prices are dropping at least, its actually cheaper than some of the higher quality 22mag cartridges. Cabelas has Hornady 17 HMR for 7.50 a box, not too bad, I think its around 8 bucks if you order like 2 bricks after shipping.
 
I have two walls full of rifles, and the one that I shoot more than all the others combined is a .22 LR. And it isn't that I don't have a place to shoot -- I have 185 acres in a valley of more than 2,000 acres that has only one or two other houses. I have my own bench rest and shooting range, too.

The reason I like the .22LR is low cost. You can buy 500 or 550 rounds at Wal Mart for around $9.00 -- which is less than $.02 a round.

While others may say premium ammo is better, I do a lot of shooting at a standard NRA 11-bull 50 foot target. I shoot from the standing, unsupported position only, and work the bolt from the shoulder. I put 10 rounds on each bull, and try to hold all shots to the 8-ring or better.

That cheap ammo does very well for this kind of shooting, and really makes a rifleman out of you. For hunting, a brick of premium ammo will last a long time, and will make all that practice pay off.
 
17 hmr on coyotes

wow wut a little zipper , i hit a coyote at 150yrds with the 17gr v max , he jumped 4 ft in the air spun around 5 times and fell over dead dead dead. upon closer inspection it was a heart shot granted a 22 wouldve done the same thing . I just didnt have to aim a foot high. Ive had 22 mags before , I thought they ruled till i got my 17, its my new best freind
 
A few things come to mind: The .22 WMR is an excellent round, but due to the low "demand", the prices have remained very high. If it had become more popular, the prices would have dropped to slightly more than the venerable .22LR.

The .17 HMR is still fairly new, so the "demand" aspect has yet to be revealed. If it does become more popular, the ammo prices MAY become at least "competitive" with the long-standing "king" of rim-fires.

On the "new" aspect of the .17 HMR, I've heard numerous opinions about what to expect. Many seem to think that, long-term, the .17 will eventually fade from existence. I've also HEARD that many so-called "experts" seem to think that the .17 HMR generates too much chamber heat....and will cause severe throat erosion.

All I know is that my first-ever rifle (a Winchester model 69A) is now 53 years old, but it shoots like it was "born" yesterday! It has been fired (guess-timated) 10,000 times, with nary a malfunction or misfire! Original cost: $11.50!
 
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