22WMR or no?

[mcb]

Maybe I got lucky but my 22 WMR was just an inexpensive Marlin 25MN and when I found ammo it liked it shot pretty good. It was a ~1-MOA gun at 50 yards and ~1.5-2.0-MOA at 100 yards with ammo it like but was real finicky about ammo, so much so that changing scopes dramatically changed what ammo it shot well with. For groundhogs I found it significantly more effective than 22LR.

 

[mavracer]

What small game hunting are you doing which exceeds the range capabilities of the 22LR, but which is diminished in quality by the power of 223? Are you EXPERIENCING a gap based on both 22LR and 223 failing to meet your needs, or are you IMAGINING a gap based on a gap in paper ballistics between the two? Most folks simply don’t have a realizable gap in the field where the 22WMR or 17HMR really fills a need. But if you DO have this real-word gap, I’d also recommend 17HMR over 22WMR.

Oh come on, it's perfectly normal to make up a "need" to justify a purchase, we are gun nuts after all.


I've got an old Marlin 25M that I've had for 35+ years so it maybe cognitive bias but day in day out I don't see much of an advantage in the 17 HMR.
I struggle with the choice between the 2 recently for a suppressor host, ended up going 22 mag due to having plenty of ammo on hand.
Jokes on me though the ammo it liked best 33gr Remington is the one I only had a box n a half of. For some reason neither gun likes the 30gr Hornady.

 

[mcb]

Oh come on, it's perfectly normal to make up a "need" to justify a purchase, we are gun nuts after all.
I've got an old Marlin 25M that I've had for 35+ years so it maybe cognitive bias but day in day out I don't see much of an advantage in the 17 HMR.
I struggle with the choice between the 2 recently for a suppressor host, ended up going 22 mag due to having plenty of ammo on hand.
Jokes on me though the ammo it liked best 33gr Remington is the one I only had a box n a half of. For some reason neither gun likes the 30gr Hornady.

My 25MN loved the Remington 33gr until I upgraded the scope. Groups went from ~1-MOA to 2.5+ MOA. Thankfully the change in harmonics made the CCI 40gr HP group almost as well as the Remington use to.

 

[Varminterror]

Dude asked whether it makes sense or is practical, so I offered a logical formula for his self-determination.

If a dude just WANTS a 22WMR, party on. I have a 15” 6 Creedmoor, a 10.5” 458 Socom, and a 17HMR revolver, and just ordered an action for a 416 Cheytac wildcat - not a damned thing to do with my “needs” on any of those. Subjective wants shouldn’t be handcuffed to objective sensibilities or practicalities.

 

[dirtman]

This concern comes up on a regular basis.... All of it dependent on ones needs... I can freely speak to my needs only...
I spend a lot of time in rural areas around livestock... The ping of a 223 as it hits a rock with 150 head (cattle beast) close by, is not a sound most people want to hear....
Most of the time if its pole cat, badger, yot, or any other vermin that enters the farm yard, it is under 120 yards....
I have found the 22 mag to be excellent to solve these types of problems... cci 40-50 grn. is great it has the power to do the deed... My RAR is less than 1/2 " at 100yds always..
I am a long time reloader, for far to many cals to count.... The fact that I can buy accurate ammo as cheap as 22mag and not worry about the brass is a god send... I have seen 17s blow up on the surface of bone and just leave an injured animal.... but the 17 is great for a gophers...The bore just needs to be cleaned more often... I fully indorse, if you see a gun of interest.... BUY IT... They all come with very good shelf life... But then use it... don't just leave it on the shelf or in the safe.... You all play safe now....

 

[Picher]

The above is my .17 HMR CZ455. I bought it used, as a .22 WMR, but bought a .17 HMR Fluted Heavy Barrel, and never looked back. It shoots great, though I admit that I bedded/pillar-bedded the action and free-floated the barrel. The stock is kind of nice and it fits me well. Since the photo, scope was changed to a 3-9X Leupold, which is fantastic and the rifle shoots about as well as the .17 HMR will shoot in any rifle. It's a lot of fun and I have to fight myself to keep from plinking with the expensive and kind of difficult to find ammo these days, though I recently lucked-onto a 200 round box of CCI ammo a few weeks ago!!!

 

[MacAR]

My two cents:

I have 3 main varmint/farm guns: a 17hmr, 22mag, and 222 Rem. The 17 is a Savage 93R17, and is great for things like crows and armadillos out to about 150yds. Very, very accurate rifle with Winchester 20gr ammo. The 22 mag is an old stainless/synthetic Marlin, and is much better than the 17 for things like groundhogs, coons, and even coyotes to approximately the same ranges. It really isn't as accurate as the 17 but it's good enough for varmint work. I suppose it just depends on what I'm doing as to which rifle I pick to use. But if I'm honest, when there are varmints that need dispatching, the Deuce usually gets the honor unless they're within 22lr range. Its not very much louder than either of the other two and stops varmints in their tracks. I will say this of all the rifles mentioned above, don't expect to take any of them squirrel or rabbit hunting and be left with much edible meat.

Mac

 

[Turkeytider]

I had virtually identical Savages set up, one in 22WMR and the other in 17HMR. The 22 didn't stick around long as the best I could do with it was 2-3" while sub 1" seems the norm with the 17. I'm stubborn, however, and grabbed a River 77 All Weather in 22WMR and learned that the 22 has the potential for almost MOA. A buddy talked me out of it.
I now use a Contender Carbine in 223 for most of my critter control after saving John Barsness' article on various reduced loads. I have 22lr, 22WMR, 22Hornet, and 223 equivalent loads available. (It does take a card with poi data on it, however, so as not to have to sight in for each load).
To answer the OP's question, I love the 17 for accuracy but after a couple failures on winter coyotes, I'll take a jacketed 22 at 2000 or better.
Was a great way to spend Covid winter rather than watching dumb stuff on tv.

Not absolutely certain you could consider sub-MOA to be the " norm " for 17HMR. A LOT of variability in 17 ammo is well documented, thus impacting precision and accuracy. It`s hunting ammo, not match, and I believe I read where CCi states that expected precision is 2 MOA. As for precision, however, sub-MOA groups at 100 yards with the gun`s preferred round are hardly unusual. As for accuracy ( POA vs. POI ) , I have found my Savage 17HMR to shoot consistently .6" or better. LOTS of fun to shoot!

 

[someguy2800]

The gap between 22lr and 22mag is not really that significant in my opinion when you talk about range and the kind of animal they are effective for. WMR has a lot more energy but the wind drift out to 100 yards is actually not very much different. Hornady predict 3.8" drift for the 22 mag and 4.1" for a 22lr subsonic. I wouldn't really want to use either one much past 100 yard for hunting something bigger than like a prairie dog. Considering the accuracy I've seen from 22 magnums, I would rather be shooting a 17 hmr or 17 wsm past 100 yards personally. I have no issue shooting 1 moa targets out to 200 yards with my HMR, farther on a really calm day. I think what the 22 mag is best at is for animals a little larger than you would really want to use a 22lr for, such as coyotes at relatively short range. Like protecting your chicken coup in your back yard. Its a heck of a lot closer to 22lr than it is 223, mainly because of the terrible ballistic coefficient bullets they put in it. If you really want something to split the difference it would be a 22 hornet.

 

[Frulk]

A week or so after opening day squirrel hunting the wind break tree lines of eastern North Dakota the survivors were a lot more savvy. Up until then the unscoped 10/22 or MK2 Target with 6.5 inch barrel did fine.

I usually started carrying the scoped Marlin M25 in .22 Mag about that time because I liked the flatter shooting round for the increased distance and the fact that those NODAK Fox squirrels were Roy D. Mercer ‘How Big ahh boy are yah’ sized. I liked the extra punch the .22 Mag brought to the encounter.

Got nothing against the .17 cal. Bought most of the .22mags (4-5?) I own before .17 cal hit the market. For what I need in that range the Mag meets all of my needs.

If I were in the market I’d base my decision on ammo availability + cost and the type of gun it came in.

 

[someguy2800]

What I really wish was available is bags of primed but unloaded 22 mag cases. It would be a fun round to handload with decent spire point boat tail bullets. For example if you were to load one with a 40 grain vmax bullet to the same velocity as a CCI maxi mag, you would go from 92 ft lbs to 144 ft lbs at 200 yards, gain 257 ft/sec, the wind drift would go from 18.4 inches of drop to 13.1 inches, and wind drift from 23.9 to 12.8 inches.

 

[N555]

During a minor ammo shortage 22wmr may not run out. During the last Obama ammo shortage 22wmr was usually on the shelves at least here.

 

[chicharrones]

Oh come on, it's perfectly normal to make up a "need" to justify a purchase, we are gun nuts after all.


I've got an old Marlin 25M that I've had for 35+ years so it maybe cognitive bias but day in day out I don't see much of an advantage in the 17 HMR.
I struggle with the choice between the 2 recently for a suppressor host, ended up going 22 mag due to having plenty of ammo on hand.
Jokes on me though the ammo it liked best 33gr Remington is the one I only had a box n a half of. For some reason neither gun likes the 30gr Hornady.

If one stumbles on a .22 WMR rifle with match like short chamber, 30 grainers shoot tight and of course flatter than 40 grainers. Splitting the difference between the .17 HMR and heavier .22 WMR bullets a little bit.

Zastava made rimfire rifles are known for these short chambers in both .22 WMR and .22 LR. Seems like many manufacturers make .22 WMR with chambers capable of taking all .22 WMR ammo at the expense of accuracy. Which makes plenty of sense given what most .22 WMR guns were bought for through the years.

 

[Picher]

When it comes to eastern coyotes, I grab my .223 and don't even consider the .17 HMR, despite it being a MOA rifle. One day, I sat on my bench and watched some turkeys about 100 yards away, but quartering to my left. All of a sudden, a coyote that was sleeping among the tufts about 40 yards away. I quickly fired and it went down, but was moving, so I got up and put a kill shot on it. Suddenly, another coyote that had been sleeping about 100 yards away got up quickly and ran like a streak directly away from me on the grass. I worked the action and shot offhand when it was a little over a hundred yards away. It went down hard and never quivered! That impressed me about the .17 HMR greatly!!! I don't worry about it not being powerful enough for coyotes, when walking in the blueberry fields, etc. Probably not the best for shots over 100 yards, but most of the ones I've shot have been closer than that.

 

[Picher]

Sorry for this, but when anyone says hay you can reload more inexpensive my little peanut brain just goes into over drive....lets do some math.

A quick look on bullets I grabbed a Berry's 55 grain, first result was $80 for 500, so .16 each. Went to hodgons sight and looked up 223 loads, the lightest load they list if for IMR 4198 at 18.8 grains, figure a nice round $50 per pound (what it is going around here when you can find it) with 7000 grains in a pound. That gives us .13 in the powder. Primer figure .10 per for our local price and every dog in the joint has brass so that is a given.

This will lead to this specific formula being .39 per bang. Ammo seek is showing prices ranging from .21 to .31 per bang, so close.

I have never shot something loaded that light and don't know how it would do, or if you have a chance of a squib. It is on the hodgon site so it is a valid load. You would need to do your own testing, and that is part of the fun of reloading.

Personally I like 22mag, it just has something that I like and I can't tell you what that is.

I've had .22 mag and have not been impressed with the bullet expansion as much as the .17 HMR. The .17 really knocks the snot out of small varmints, including foxes and chucks, out to 100 yards or more. Trajectory is also pretty flat. Maybe the .22 mag ammo I've used is tougher-skinned than the .17 HMR and maybe it would shine on larger critters, but until I find the .17 not doing the job, I'll stick with it.

 

[mavracer]

If one stumbles on a .22 WMR rifle with match like short chamber, 30 grainers shoot tight and of course flatter than 40 grainers. Splitting the difference between the .17 HMR and heavier .22 WMR bullets a little bit.

Zastava made rimfire rifles are known for these short chambers in both .22 WMR and .22 LR. Seems like many manufacturers make .22 WMR with chambers capable of taking all .22 WMR ammo at the expense of accuracy. Which makes plenty of sense given what most .22 WMR guns were bought for through the years.

Hadn't really considered jump issues, but that sure makes sense. Guess the 33s are more jump tolerant.
Both guns shoot 40s ok. I've got some old PMC 40gr 1/2 jacket hollow points they're the hottest 40s I've ever shot.
My local Atwoods had the 33gr Remingtons fairly cheap so I stocked up.
I like the fact that I can get "useful" ammo for the 22 Mag relatively cheap without reloading. I hardly ever shoot "cheap" 5.56 ammo.

 

[gralewaj]

Recently picked up an externally abused Rem 597 .22 WMR, super clean bore, cleaned off the spray paint, scuffs and replaced the recoil springs, super cleaned the action. Rescoped with a Tract 22Fire 4-12x40 and it shoots dimes out to 150yds. Can't wait to stretch it's legs this fall. So far, so good. My first experience with .22 WMR over .22LR. It's way more accurate past 100 yds for me than .22lr.

 

[bearcreek]

Less than 2moa for a rimfire is fine with me.
It's not a precision platform.

Again, perspective. A rimfire may not be a precision platform for you, but it may be for someone else. I have a buddy who has a .22 WMR and a .17 HMR that both easily shoot sub MOA.

 

[film495]

I have a couple revolvers that have .22 LR and .22 Mag cylinders. The question you pose is interesting, I don't have a .22 Mag rifle, but I think about it sometimes since I already have ammo for it. With hyper velocity .22 LR and the vast choices in ammo, I've never really figured a real need, imagined or otherwise, to me - for a .22 Mag rifle. I might feel different if I was trying to do something, where it just didn't work - but, I'm not gonna be out trying to hit much of anything past 100 yards, probably not past 50. What distances are you talking about?

 

[skfullen]

I’m a 22WMR fan. I have a 9422M and a custom Ruger Bearcat in 22 WMR.
Also several Ruger SS Convertibles and a Ruger American in 22WMR, and several K of ammo. So, I’m biased.
For me, the mag doubles the effective range over the LR.

 

[Varminterror]

“Not for nuthin’,” but my “gap rifle” between 22LR and 223rem is a 17WSM, and I’m very happy with it. Much closer to the midline between these two than 22WMR, and I can hold ~1moa out to around 300 on days with consistent winds. Not as popular or widely available as 17HMR, but definitely a big brother to all other production rimfires which brings the heat far beyond the rest of the flock - BUT - still not yet competing for bark or bite with centerfires.

 

[herrwalther]

I like 22Mag over 22LR and 17HMR. One notable reason is the Mrs has owned a few 22mag guns so I sit on a pretty good amount of ammo for it. I stupidly sold off my 22mag rifle a long time ago and have been looking for a replacement I like ever since.

 

[Remington1911]

No need to be sorry. The cheapest ammo is seldom good hunting ammo. 223 loads that equil performace of top quality 22mags are (depending how you sorce your components) cost about the same. Is definately cheaper to not add the expense of a third outfit when(if) one is going to reload & already have gear to do so. I was not telling anyone what they had to do. If you would like to get a 22mag rifle anyway, go ahead. It will work just the same.

I think what flipped the switch in my brain was all the covid shortages. I started to really think, just what does it cost for me to reload X. And I found that to be kinda fun. So when you brought up the subject I wanted to just give it a quick run for the fun of it.....hay I am a nut and I know it. During those shortages, or I should still say these shortages you have that.....well if I can make it, but can't buy it, what is the value to that.

It was just fun to run some numbers.

 

[Remington1911]

A lot more guns available in 22wmr, bolt, lever, semiauto and all current production.
Last time I wanted a 22 hornet lever gun I pretty much had to rob a museum.

I hear you, I have wanted a 220 swift forever. But never came across one that I was comfortable with.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Because of some regulations, both present and past, here in GA, owning a 22 WMR made a lot of sense.

Basically, if you want to shoot hogs on WMAs during small game season, you need to be using what the regs define as a small game weapon. Archery and MLs and rimfire are legal but no centerfire. Since many, but not all, feel a 22 WMR has a bit more punch on an oinker than a 17HMR, many folks have them.

it should be noted many folks kill hogs all across this state with all the flavors of 17 and 22 rimfires which includes the 17 WSM. That is why for a time, I really wished a 22 WSM would be made. Still wouldn’t mind.

Also, I have not witnessed the “destruction” 22 WMR does to small game. My 22 WMR must be weak or my appetite for destruction must be strong. All relative I guess.

My Rem 597 Mag 22 WMR shoots pretty well too but not as good as my old Marlin 17V 17HMR.

My 223 rifle has only A1 sights so it is not quite as precise of a shooter for me. I just prefer the 597 to my Marlin 60 22LR. I don’t have a 17 HMR anymore but will probably get another one day. As such, the 22 Mag has no competition from either direction of the gap.