25-06 loose primer pockets

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aggiejet

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Howdy all,

I am new to reloading, as have previously started a thread regarding misfires in my reloads. The problem being the primer is dented by firing pin, but round didnt fire. That lead to a lot of discussion about primer depth seating, etc.

Well, I have a new primer issue. I was reloading last weekend, and had several rounds where the primer would not seat all. The primer would just fall out of the primer pocket.

I am using CCi primers in Federal factory ammo brass, and this would be the third/fourth time I have reloaded this brass.

Yesterday at the range shooting this ammo in my new Savage 111, the rounds would not extract. (the extractor is gone) After a little internet research, it looks like this gun has extractor issues when ammo is fired with loose primers, thus damaging the extractor.

I tend to load at the higher end of the recipe for the bullets I use. (Gameking) All of this seems to suggest I need to turn it down a little. Can anyone give me a little tutorial on brass and what causes primer pocket enlargement?

(I tried doing a forum search, but I guess I don't know how to use the search function. i.e. if I enter primer+pocket+enlargement, I get every thread with the word primer or pocket or enlargement in it. Ugh!)

Thanks,
Mark
 
AJ,

It sounds to me like your problem might be 2-fold. First, hot loads tend to reduce brass life, especially primer pockets. Second, Federal brass might also be part of the problem. Federal .223 brass is notorious for loose primer pockets. Personally, I have a bunch of Fed 30-06 brass that I have to scrap due to loose pockets. Its probably been loaded 8 - 10 times with moderate loads, but I've never had that problem with other headstamps.

Laphroaig
 
Federal brass has been terrible in everything I've used it in. It has poor neck tension and primer pockets loosen up quickly. Also the brass tends to be heavier than other head stamps so powder capacity is lower. OP what load are you using...it looks to be a little hot.
 
loose primer pockets

Well they obviously shouldn't be doing that. So evidently you have a higher pressure situation than your brass / gun will handle. Any other signs of high pressure on your brass case heads ? Bolt a little sticky after you fire a round ?
We would guess it would be wise to start over developing a load. OYE
 
What/where is a good alternative for 25-06 brass?

FWIW, the Sierra recipe book I have, used Federal brass for their data.
 
A good alternative for 25-06 brass is to run .270 Win or 30-06 brass through your 25-06 die and trim it to length. I'm using Hornady 30-06 brass necked down to 25-06 and it works fine. I just am careful to keep it completely seperate from all my other 30-06 ammo.
 
Any particular brands? I have seen some 25-06 cases for sale recently somewhere for about .80 each. I think they were Hornady.
 
Think I'd be checking my powder measure ( and that the correct powder was used) just to be sure it's accurate and double checking brass to make sure you have no signs of flowing in the case heads. It may well be the brass and it may not be either.

Never used Hornady brass. I prefer Remington brass in all calibers when and if it's available. I'm sure there are other brands just as good. I did try some Federal and Winchester brass years ago. Starline seems to be as good in the pistol calibers. I just get better life out of the Remington brass. OYE
 
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To be honest I would get some other brass as mentioned.

I use 30-06 brass necked down and it works out just fine. It will be a touch shorter the first time you size it down so simply square up the ends and go for it.

I personally try not to use the .270 cases as I also have a .270 and they can look a lot alike unless your on your toes. It isn't the end of the world to shoot a 25-06 in a .270, but should it happen to chamber, the other way around isn't a good thing.

I have also found that the older Winchester and Remington cases hold up very well. I also have Hornady, Frontier, and Federal as well, and use them all. I haven't had much of an issue with any of them until I get up in the very top end of the load ranges. IF your seating out close to the lands this could also be giving you higher pressure than normal. I also had more issues with the IMR-4831 powder than any other I tried. I settled on RL-22 and not only get great velocity but also great groups as well. IF you run across any I HIGHLY suggest picking up a pound and giving it a try.
 
1. It seems that Federal brass in the last few years has gone down hill. It used to be some of the best you could use before they were bought out by company that owns CCI.
2. Try Winchester Primers or Federal Primers. I've always gravitated to them. Used CCI, never any "real" problems, but better ignition and accuracy with others.
3. Try Winchester or Hornady Brass. I find that Winchester primers are a "hard" fit in Hornady brass, meaning tight primer pockets for sure.
4. I've loaded for a number of Savage b/a rifles and have found that the chambers run to the tight side. Your load may be at the top end for your chamber/throat.

I suggest you try either MagPro, H1000, H4831, or Reloader22 in your rifle. They are slower burning powders and will give slightly better velocities. I really like IMR4831 in the .257Roberts and .243win, but developed a preference for slower powders in the .25/06.
 
I would say it's the Federal brass..just do a google search and look at the problems with loose primer pockets using federal brass. I had some 223 federal brass once that was outstanding in every way except loose primer pockets, I ended up loading light loads for target and just milked ~5 loads from them.

I have never had any problems with Winchester or Remington brass..
 
Federal brass is known for being softer than other brands. You're seeing the exact result of that. It just doesn't last as long as other brands(All my brass is 30 plus years old, so it's not the same as current stuff, but look at Winchester or Remington). Not a safety issue though.
Every time your rifle goes bang, the pressures created go in every direction. The case expands then retracts in the chamber. Soft brass doesn't retract as far every time so the primer pocket gets enlarged a bit more with every firing.
 
1 Factory Savage bolt heads are often dished. The severity is random.
2 Federal brass is on the softer end of the scale. I personally like the brass they make.
3 How many times has the problem brass been reloaded?


The dished bolt face will cause the pockets to become loose prematurely. In combination with soft brass, it may happen quicker with fewer loadings. Loading on the upper end of the chart speeds things up even more.

If it has been established that the bolt face is dished:
The bolt head can be replaced with a new Savage factory replacement(hope it's not dished). OR, the current bolt face can be trued up. Or, a new aftermarket head can be purchased from Pacific Tool and Gauge. With the last two options the head space should be checked and adjusted if needed.

Meanwhile I'd pull the loads from that batch and workup again.
 
I migrated away from Federal brass in the 25-06 due to short life via enlarged primer pockets. The experience is not unique to you and you are likely not doing anything wrong.

I now resize HXP 30-06 brass to 25-06, turn the necks, and get great case life and loads are very accurate. Some of my loads are on the high end of the load scale but so far no problems with case life after several firings.
 
I've owned and shot a .25-06 for 37 years, it's a great cartridge. I don't know how many loadings you get out of a case but I go no more than 6 before I throw them in the scrap. I would rather miss a few loadings than worry about case separation.

I have heard Federal brass is notorious for the issues you're having, I've never had any problems with Winchester or Remington. Sad part is I used to like Federal brass.

One thing about the .25-06. To get good performance you need to be at the high end of the loads or accuracy will suffer. I learned that very early with this cartridge. All of my loads are very close to max, never a problem.

I've always liked IMR powders and I've used 4350 for a long time. The last couple years I've switched to RL19 because I can get about 200 fps more out of it. The .25-06 thrives on velocity.

For me IMR4831 is hard to find which is the reason I prefer 4350 over it.

I see no reason you need to cut back on your loads. As said, max is listed as 53.0 gr of IMR4831, you are shooting mid range loads if you are shooting 50 gr.

Get different brass and see what happens. I bet your problems go away.
 
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There may be at least a couple issues at play here.

First of the possibles, is head stamp. Generally, I get some where between 8 - 12 reloading from my high powered rifle brass, and I load at the upper end. But a short time ago I blew a primer seal, it happened on the first loading of once fired Federal brass. I was running a long time worked up established load, same rifle, same brass, same primers (CCI's), same bullet. The only clue I had was that several pieces of that brass felt looser than usual in the pockets when I seated the primers. I have always had a reduced level of trust in Federal bottle neck brass, not so much with the handgun stuff though.

Now, as for how warm you load, that too will shorten the life of primer pockets. The case head gets expanded, thus increasing the likelihood of blowing a pocket seal, which almost always results in high pressure gases cutting a nice little primer pocket circle into the bolt face, ask me how I know. And if you have a claw type extractor, it can break them, or blow them out to be more precise.

GS
 
Ironwoker asked "1 Factory Savage bolt heads are often dished. The severity is random."

I assume you are describing the face of the bolt? Is this discernible to the naked eye? If so, mine appears to be in good shape. The gun is less than two years old, with less 500 rounds shot thru it.
 
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Flashole wrote:
"I now resize HXP 30-06 brass to 25-06, turn the necks, and get great case life and loads are very accurate. Some of my loads are on the high end of the load scale but so far no problems with case life after several firings."


What do you mean by turning the necks?
 
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joed said:
I've owned and shot a .25-06 for 37 years, it's a great cartridge. I don't know how many loadings you get out of a case but I go no more than 6 before I throw them in the scrap. I would rather miss a few loadings than worry about case separation.

I have heard Federal brass is notorious for the issues you're having, I've never had any problems with Winchester or Remington. Sad part is I used to like Federal brass.

One thing about the .25-06. To get good performance you need to be at the high end of the loads or accuracy will suffer. I learned that very early with this cartridge. All of my loads are very close to max, never a problem.

I've always liked IMR powders and I've used 4350 for a long time. The last couple years I've switched to RL19 because I can get about 200 fps more out of it. The .25-06 thrives on velocity.

For me IMR4831 is hard to find which is the reason I prefer 4350 over it.

I see no reason you need to cut back on your loads. As said, max is listed as 53.0 gr of IMR4831, you are shooting mid range loads if you are shooting 50 gr.

Get different brass and see what happens. I bet your problems go away.
Click to expand...
The reason we shoot 4831 is that it is pretty available here in the Tulsa area. Weird, huh?
 
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