$2500 1911's?

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My $600 Springfield mil spec was reliable out of the box, still is 1,500 rounds later without a jam. Well it didn't like Speer Gold dots at first but now that's not a problem.

IMHO the main difference between a $600 1911 and a $2500 is the fit and finish and the trigger. You do get a much better trigger.

But as far as accuracy and reliability are concerned I don't see a $2500 pistol working better or being more accurate in my hands than a cheaper one. I'm not a good enough shooter to start splitting MOA's with a pistol.

IMHO the Wilson Combat's are nice, if I was going to buy a high dollar 1911 it would be a Wilson.
 
I just cannot see TWO GRAND for a 1911. Especially a carry gun.

You can get a fine Kimber for just for $1000, or a Dan Wesson.

I've seen LAPD Kimber 1911 .45s at pawns shops for $950. And new Dan Wesson commander size guns for $1200.

And Rock River commander size guns for $500!

So I see no reason for $2000+ 1911s. I'd get two Kimbers for that price and use one for practice and one for carry. And get the Kimber .22 side for the practice gun to!

Deaf
 
I will keep my eye out for that $500 Rock River...

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Deaf Smith there are no more $1000 Dan Wessons. The Heritage series guns are the cheapest. They run $1150 + Shipping and Transfer.

Kimber IMHO are heavy on the looks and MIM and so much on the quality anymore. I know people like them but for that $1000 there are better guns IMHO. I would rather have 1 top end 1911 over 2 Kimbers any day. To each their own. :D
 
Some day I'll have enough money to travel the country and I WILL find that deal...maybe. Last I checked $2200 could get me a new one but as far as you know they aren't currently produced...

I just ordered my first, a S&W Enhanced Series for around $750. I did perhaps read the OP to question if it was necessary to spend that amount. I am unfamiliar with what magic Mr. Wilson's shop imparted upon these pistols so I'll ask your forgiveness as to my ignorance. If sights, accuracy, a tuned trigger and reliability were all in the works then a $2000 LB seems a fine bargain, moreso when resale is considered.

To the OP, the most notable problems with factory pistols are likely tool marks, MIM parts, poor fit (as small parts are rarely in house), crappy stocks and not having it YOUR WAY the first time. As time and money allows I'll add to the collection, hopefully with an RRA.
 
I have had several of these $2500 1911's, and still do. What you get is what you'd pay for a custom job without the wait. Betweem Wilson, Brown, Nighthawk, Springfield Custom, etc. you can have it your way, right away.

What makes these guns better than less expensive variants is the quality of the parts. They use better, more durable steel. The parts are fitted more precisely. The trigger pulls are better. The guns are more accurate and reliable. Wilson, for example, tests each gun for reliability with each magazine they ship- full and partially loaded.

You pay for quality and convenience.
 
I bought a SA loaded for my first 1911. Nice gun. Then I bought a S&W 1911PD Commander. Nice gun. Then I bought an Ed Brown Executive Target used, lnib for $2,100, a Les Baer PII 1.5" used, lnib for $1,850 and a new Les Baer 9mm PII for $1,850. The last three are nicer guns.

I was shooting the SA the other day. I put Ed Brown ignition parts in it. Good accuracy, very nice trigger. I shoot it about the same at 15-20 yards as the higher end guns. Not as good at 50 yards. It runs my Ciener .22 most of the time.

I was looking at a Rock Island Tactical in 9mm and .45 last weekend. i could have both for about $950 otd. If I didn't own the others that might be a good way to go to get back into 1911s.
 
Deaf Smith said:
So I see no reason for $2000+ 1911s. I'd get two Kimbers for that price and use one for practice and one for carry. And get the Kimber .22 side for the practice gun to!
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Then don't buy one.


I have two 1911's that cost in excess of $2,500.00. And they're carry pieces that get carried. And I have a Kimber. And a .22 slide for it as well. Frankly I'm spoiled on the custom guns and never shoot the Kimber unless it's for .22 practice.


Some folks can't see a reason for very expensive cars. But those who drive one swear they can appreciate the difference between a luxury or performance model over something a bit more pedestrian. I believe them.


At a certain price point, we're willing to pay a premium for performance. Top end guns perform. But that could be said of any piece of machinery. Something built to perform will accomplish that job better than a model designed for utility and reliability. That costs money. But for those who can appreciate and take advantage of the performance, its well worth it.


Back to the opening question - Kimber isn't what it once was. Springfield Custom Shop pieces are nice. Wilson is pretty much a production line now, but they're using good quality parts, assembled by better-trained craftsmen.


rellascout is laying down some good info here in this thread. I'm not up to speed on all the high-end shops anymore. So many have sprung up it's too hard to keep track of them all. When I want something nice, I buy a stock, plain-jane, no-frills Colt and send it to Jim Garthwaite.
 
$2500 1911's are part of the reason I own only ARMSCORs.

I have some money, too, but the reason I have it is that I don't throw it away.

Spend $900-get 2 RIA's.

mark
 
As time and money allows I'll add to the collection, hopefully with an RRA.
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Good choice, I love mine. :)

rrax2012.jpg


And to the OP, you certainly don't need to spend that kind of cash to get a good 1911, there are lots of examples of good 1911s for under $1000.
 
NO

Looks like you may have opened a can of worms Gary. I'm new to the 1911 market, and money was a factor for me so I purchased a Remington R1 for under $700 and I love it. You asked if you have to spend $2,500 for a "solid, enhanced 1911". To that, based on what most of the posters have said I say no. It appears that most agree that Dan Wesson 1911's fit your description and they have models priced well below $2,500. Or, if all you are looking for is a SOLID pistol that runs without problems then there is a broad selection of factory stock guns available for you to select from at half that price. What ever you get....ENJOY :D
 
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I love this question.

I paid $630 for my Kimber. I shot a $2700 Nighthawk at a rental range. I regard it the same as the $5 milk shake in Pulp Fiction. WOW. FANTASTIC. Might be the best milk shake I have ever tasted. But it ain't worth five dollars.

For (swallowing hard) four times the cost of my Kimber, I have no idea what it is supposed to do that my Kimber can't. The funniest part. IT JAMMED repeatedly on the range. Now in all fairness, that could be poor rental range maintenence, bad mags, a variety of things. but um, NO, I see no sure reason that you get anything CLOSE to what you pay for in that case. My Kimber is already more accurate than I am. I matters to me not at all if it is 1" rather than 2" @25 yards. I care nothing at all for finish, I care about function.

Do you get more? I guess. But I THINK that the law of diminishing returns kicks in somewhere at about $1000. All mechanical devices fail eventually.
 
I love this question.

I paid $630 for my Kimber. I shot a $2700 Nighthawk at a rental range. I regard it the same as the $5 milk shake in Pulp Fiction. WOW. FANTASTIC. Might be the best milk shake I have ever tasted. But it ain't worth five dollars.

For (swallowing hard) four times the cost of my Kimber, I have no idea what it is supposed to do that my Kimber can't. The funniest part. IT JAMMED repeatedly on the range. Now in all fairness, that could be poor rental range maintenence, bad mags, a variety of things. but um, NO, I see no sure reason that you get anything CLOSE to what you pay for in that case. My Kimber is already more accurate than I am. I matters to me not at all if it is 1" rather than 2" @25 yards. I care nothing at all for finish, I care about function.

Do you get more? I guess. But I THINK that the law of diminishing returns kicks in somewhere at about $1000. All mechanical devices fail eventually.
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I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think your price point is too low. The law of diminishing returns really kicks in at about $1200 to $1400. At that point you are getting a higher level of parts and more hands on time from a skilled assembler before they leave the factory.

If you break down your Kimber to the frame. Removing all small parts and then do the same with a Ed Brown you will see a difference in the quality of the parts used to assemble the gun. The Ed Brown will not have MIM parts. The frame will be within spec. They internal parts will be dimensionally within spec and will be properly finished and fitted to the gun. This is not always the case with newer Kimbers. Older ones were better but still not Ed Brown quality.

Now again the real question is does it matter to you. To me I am willing to pay a upcharge for these things. You have stated that you do not see the value in it. That however does not mean there is not value for others. One question I have is do you care about longevity? IMHO that is another factor that higher end 1911s have going for them.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions about the high end 1911 market is that the higer price gets you a higher level of reliablity. IMHO it does not. In order to get accuracy and percision you have to make them tight. Tight makes them less reliable. The old GIs were loose as a goose.

It all comes down to a matter of personal opinion and what you personally value. So really there is no right answer only opinions. The comments I personally cannot stand are ones like this.

I have some money, too, but the reason I have it is that I don't throw it away.
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They have no place in intelligent dicusssions and they are not THR.
 
dogngun said:
I have some money, too, but the reason I have it is that I don't throw it away.
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Neither do I. I invested mine.


rellascout said:
I think one of the biggest misconceptions about the high end 1911 market is that the higer price gets you a higher level of reliablity. IMHO it does not.
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^^^ Exactly true.

I got mine built the way I wanted it built. For me. For my hand. With the parts I wanted, not some semi-custom assembly line of parts while of good quality, are still only ones that "most people" in the market want.

My front sights have 10 karat gold beads. My triggers are exactly the length, not weight but length , I want them. My beavertail and thumb safeties are profiled to the contours of my hand. I have fitted barrels to switch between 9mm, 9x23 and 38 Super.

The second 1911 I made under Jim's guidance and direction in a "spend a week with Jim Garthwaite and build your own 1911" class at his shop in Watsontown. I personally have more tied up in that gun than the cost of the parts and Jim's fee. I took a week off work and paid for lodging for that gun.


But they're totally mine. I can't get any of those sorts of service or attention from Kimber. And the week with Jim was priceless. He's a good personal friend, but the opportunity to spend a week working under him, combined with the mini classes he taught during our build I'll always remember.
 
It seems now the question is do you spend $1800 on a nice "custom shop" piece and modify it from there or "waste" another $300 and have a pistol delivered to you as you wanted.

I'm paid well for what little semi-skilled work I do, I would be remiss to feel my smith is not worth as much. Parts and labor now or spare parts, parts and more labor later.

I guess, depending on the number of years the OP is talking about, $2500 may simply be keeping up with inflation. Remember .75/ gallon gas?
 
Remember .75/ gallon gas?
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I remember when I thought that was an outrageous price for gas.

Back when I was first getting into guns gas was .25/gallon and hamburgers were 19 cents.
 
I'm a big fan of the Springfield Custom Shop AND ED Brown. Nighthawk doesn't do it for me, and I just don't like the WIlson's I've handled.

1911-group98.gif
 
I've already shot many thousands of rounds through it. I have no idea how many .22s through the conversion kit. Mim shmim.

And even if I dug through to replace all of the mim parts with something else, how much would that cost? A couple hundred bucks?
 
I've already shot many thousands of rounds through it. I have no idea how many .22s through the conversion kit. Mim shmim.
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Many thousands??? Is that 2,000 5,000? .22 does not count. I await your report when you get into the high teens and twenties...

We understand that you do not see value in the higher end 1911s but you have yet to really make a strong argument as to why. You have stated you like your Kimber and you believe it will last for a good long time based on the "many thousand rounds through it" but you have not demonstrated why you believe it will continue. You have also IMHO not demonstrated the higher value of your Kimber compared to say a Les Baer or Ed Brown.
 
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