257 Roberts
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Float Pilot
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The 257 Roberts is basically a necked down 7x57mm Mauser brass with a 25 caliber bullet.
It was invented in the late 1920s by a gun writer / experimenter, named Ned Roberts. There were originally a couple of versions since it was a wildcat. the big difference being the shoulder angle. Griffin and Howe plus Nieder made early rifles. They were then called 25 Roberts.
Around 1934 Remington introduced a factory standardized version with a 20 degree shoulder angle. The name was changed to 257 Roberts to show it was the factory version.
It offered a little more power than the excellent 250 Savage (250-3000) which was introduced in 1915.
It is a fairly accurate cartridge and is known for having mild recoil compared to the power it developes.
By bullet weight here are some velocities you can expect from a 24 inch barrel:
1. 60 grain= 3,600 fps
2. 75 grain= 3,400 fps
3. 87 grain= 3,200 fps
4. 100 grain=3,000 fps
5. 120 grain= 2,800 fps
There is a 257 Roberts Improved (by RCBS) with a 28 degree shoulder and a 257 Roberts Ackley Improved with a 40 degree shoulder.
I hope you find this useful
It was invented in the late 1920s by a gun writer / experimenter, named Ned Roberts. There were originally a couple of versions since it was a wildcat. the big difference being the shoulder angle. Griffin and Howe plus Nieder made early rifles. They were then called 25 Roberts.
Around 1934 Remington introduced a factory standardized version with a 20 degree shoulder angle. The name was changed to 257 Roberts to show it was the factory version.
It offered a little more power than the excellent 250 Savage (250-3000) which was introduced in 1915.
It is a fairly accurate cartridge and is known for having mild recoil compared to the power it developes.
By bullet weight here are some velocities you can expect from a 24 inch barrel:
1. 60 grain= 3,600 fps
2. 75 grain= 3,400 fps
3. 87 grain= 3,200 fps
4. 100 grain=3,000 fps
5. 120 grain= 2,800 fps
There is a 257 Roberts Improved (by RCBS) with a 28 degree shoulder and a 257 Roberts Ackley Improved with a 40 degree shoulder.
I hope you find this useful
It's a good one.
Accurate with energy out to 300 yds, then tapering of. Right in line with .243. Easy recoil.
Called a classic- that's just because mfr's won't really build rifles for it. Kimber and Ruger do though, and others as special orders.
Thinking about getting into it, go ahead, you'll enjoy the ride.
Accurate with energy out to 300 yds, then tapering of. Right in line with .243. Easy recoil.
Called a classic- that's just because mfr's won't really build rifles for it. Kimber and Ruger do though, and others as special orders.
Thinking about getting into it, go ahead, you'll enjoy the ride.
woof
Member
It is almost 100 years old. It is the 7mmx57 Mauser case necked down to 6.5mm or .257. It is a very versatile round great for deer and all but the largest game. It is enjoying a resurgence of popularity right now and for that reason rifles in .257 Bob are selling at a premium right now. I'd consider the shorter but better .260 Rem as an alternative.
Float Pilot
Member
The new (introduced in 1997) 260 Remington that Woof mentioned is a very good cartridge. It is a 6.5 mm (.264 caliber) bullet stuck into a necked down 308 Winchester case. Not a 257 caliber.
Basically they duplicated the ballistics of a hand-loaded 6.5x55mm Swede Mauser using a 51mm long case instead of a 55mm case.
It seems to be pretty popular right now since it is used in short actions.
From a 260 Remington (6.5-308) you can expect (on average) from a 24 inch barrel:
85 grain= 3,400 fps
100 grain= 3,100 fps
120 grain= 2,800 fps
140 grain= 2,600 fps
160 grain=2,500-2,600 fps
I always wondered why they never necked the 308 case down to 257 caliber.
But then I started thinking that it has already been done in 1915 by Savage with the 250 Savage also known as the 250-3000. While it is a slightly shorter case than the 308. It is really the case (300 Savage) that inspired the 308 in the first place.
The old 250 Savage will give you:
60 grain= 3,500 fps
75 grain=3,300 fps
87 grain=3,000 to 3,100 fps
100 grain=2,900 fps
120 grain=2,700 fps
Not bad for a cartridge made to fire in a Savage 99 lever gun 94 years ago.
Basically they duplicated the ballistics of a hand-loaded 6.5x55mm Swede Mauser using a 51mm long case instead of a 55mm case.
It seems to be pretty popular right now since it is used in short actions.
From a 260 Remington (6.5-308) you can expect (on average) from a 24 inch barrel:
85 grain= 3,400 fps
100 grain= 3,100 fps
120 grain= 2,800 fps
140 grain= 2,600 fps
160 grain=2,500-2,600 fps
I always wondered why they never necked the 308 case down to 257 caliber.
But then I started thinking that it has already been done in 1915 by Savage with the 250 Savage also known as the 250-3000. While it is a slightly shorter case than the 308. It is really the case (300 Savage) that inspired the 308 in the first place.
The old 250 Savage will give you:
60 grain= 3,500 fps
75 grain=3,300 fps
87 grain=3,000 to 3,100 fps
100 grain=2,900 fps
120 grain=2,700 fps
Not bad for a cartridge made to fire in a Savage 99 lever gun 94 years ago.
IndianaBoy
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Very efficient quarterbore. Handles heavier bullets better than the 243 and recoils less than the 25-06 with less muzzle blast.
It is a dandy if you are a handloader. Somewhat scarce ammo would lead me to select the 243 if I only shot factory ammo.
It is a dandy if you are a handloader. Somewhat scarce ammo would lead me to select the 243 if I only shot factory ammo.
SwampWolf
Member
I've used 120 grain Core-Loks on whitetails with great success over the years. I have an old Ruger 77 that I get a hair over 1" MOA (three shot groups) with factory ammunition all day long. For whatever reason (too many other rifles to choose from and hunting deer with rifles less-I live in Ohio now, I guess), I don't use the Roberts so much anymore.
woof
Member
Ironically, the .260 and 6.5x55 at .264 are more than 6.5mm while the .257 "is" 6.5mm. Why we have come to call the .257 and .250 Savage .25 when they are 6.5 and call the .260 6.5 when it is more I don't know. Also odd is that the .270 at .277 really is 7mm, while the various 7mms like 7-08 and 7x57 are .284, a little more than 7mm. My vote goes to the .260 over all of them.
logjam
Member
When the Roberts first came out it put the 250/300 to shame, which was it's goal. The 250/300 was a great round.
The .257 Roberts with a 120 grain bullet is fine for all game up to Elk, probably; and a good Nosler bullet would take an elk nicely I'd guess.
But for all smaller game, all deer, cayotes, rabbits (you won't have any to eat!) there is little better than a 257.
The 257 was knocked off by the .243, which was all the rage in the early 60's. I believe that the 257 was and is a better round but they are close. The 6mm is probably a better varmit round and the 257 is a better deer round.
You will love shooting the 257. It's an easy kicker and it's just darn fun to shoot. There is no better prong horn round.
With that 120 grain bullet and it'll shoot nearly as hard as a 270. With the 80 grain it'll shoot nearly as flat as a 22/250...what's better than that?
If you buy a 257 roberts you'll love it. All people who I knew who shoot one, love them.
The .257 Roberts with a 120 grain bullet is fine for all game up to Elk, probably; and a good Nosler bullet would take an elk nicely I'd guess.
But for all smaller game, all deer, cayotes, rabbits (you won't have any to eat!) there is little better than a 257.
The 257 was knocked off by the .243, which was all the rage in the early 60's. I believe that the 257 was and is a better round but they are close. The 6mm is probably a better varmit round and the 257 is a better deer round.
You will love shooting the 257. It's an easy kicker and it's just darn fun to shoot. There is no better prong horn round.
With that 120 grain bullet and it'll shoot nearly as hard as a 270. With the 80 grain it'll shoot nearly as flat as a 22/250...what's better than that?
If you buy a 257 roberts you'll love it. All people who I knew who shoot one, love them.
woof
Member
My source has the .257 115 gr at 2777 and the .250 Savage 117 gr at 2652, hardly a blowout. The .260 Rem 120 gr is at 2800. My problem with the .257 is it requires a long action and, according to the distance shooters, the .260 is the favorite. That's why I have a .260 short action. The .250 Savage needs to make a comeback. I have one that's 80 years old in a Savage 99 and there is hardly a better deer gun.
But you can throw the 6.5x55 in there too, and argue for fun all day
about which is better because they are all so close.
But you can throw the 6.5x55 in there too, and argue for fun all day
about which is better because they are all so close.Ridgerunner665
Member
Shawnee
member
+1 for the Roberts !
Float Pilot
Member
Yes it certainly seems like many companies and inventors were just plain nuts when naming cartridges.
6.5mm is really .255 caliber and my 6.5mm Swede rifles have a bore of 6.50 mm IF measured from the top of the land to the top of the land. And of course they take a .264 (6.7mm before being fired) caliber bullet which fills out the bore down to the bottom of the grooves.
Just like how 7.62mm is really .300 caliber. But our 30 calibers take a .308 caliber bullet to fill out the grooves. So it is around 30 caliber from Land to land and a little less than 308 from groove to groove.
A real confuser is the 38 WCF cartridge also known as the 38-40. In those days most Winchester, Sharps, Ballard and Marlin cartridges were named by caliber and powder charge.
But the 38-40 really uses a .40 caliber (10mm) bullet. Plus the companies like Marlin who started calling the 38 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) a 38-40, were realy only using 38 grains of black powder. So it was really a 40-38......
And of course the 44-40, 44 Special and 44 magnum use bullets that are .429 caliber before firing. But the 44 caliber 1858 cap and ball remingtons of civil war fame, used a .451 caliber ball...
The whole thing gets down-right entertaining.
Most of these cartridges are pretty darn close to each other. Something the size of a deer would not be able to tell the difference if shot with any of them. It comes down to personal preference, which rifle fits you better, if you only shoot factory ammo, or just like cool old cartridges.
Here is a group fired by one of those old (1892) cartridges after being shot from a long action
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apparently i'm the lone dissenter...
i have a 257 roberts (ruger tang safety), and i think it is ok. i don't get that excited about it, and rarely shoot it.
most/many 257 roberts are short action performance in long action guns. if i have to have a small chambering, i'd much prefer it be a short action - but since it usually needs to be a long action, i'd prefer the 25-06. long action cartridge in a long action. seems to make sense.
anyway, that is not to say the roberts isn't an effective killer or whatever, but it just isn't one i get all weepy eyed over, and really, could take it or leave it - especially since i have a 25-06...
i have a 257 roberts (ruger tang safety), and i think it is ok. i don't get that excited about it, and rarely shoot it.
most/many 257 roberts are short action performance in long action guns. if i have to have a small chambering, i'd much prefer it be a short action - but since it usually needs to be a long action, i'd prefer the 25-06. long action cartridge in a long action. seems to make sense.
anyway, that is not to say the roberts isn't an effective killer or whatever, but it just isn't one i get all weepy eyed over, and really, could take it or leave it - especially since i have a 25-06...
woof
Member
How is the optimum combination of velocity per bullet diameter for whitetail hunting out to 300 yds calculated?
Ridgerunner665
Member
dakotasin,
You're not alone...I've had a 257 Roberts for many years (25 or so) and it has not been fired more than 50 times, if that much. I liked the 25-06 much better....not sure why, just did.
You're not alone...I've had a 257 Roberts for many years (25 or so) and it has not been fired more than 50 times, if that much. I liked the 25-06 much better....not sure why, just did.
logjam
Member
Wolf, everything you've said re/the 250/3000 and the .257 is true. Both are fine rounds.
I pine for those Savage 99's in 250/3000. I don't own one.
I hadn't thought about the long action problem, but is that really a problem? If your rifle has to have a long action to take the .257 Rbts it's no biggie. A longer throw? Yeah, a bit; but it's no real big deal is it? (like, we're not going after a wounded lion in the long grass.)
That 99 Savage in 250 Savage was one of the best rifles ever made. I've got one in 308 and it's nice. I also have a 1895 Savage in 303 (they all are) and it's a really fine shooter....100 yds, 2 inch groups 1 '' high, off of iron sights with center hold...you just don't get much better than that.
I pine for those Savage 99's in 250/3000. I don't own one.
I hadn't thought about the long action problem, but is that really a problem? If your rifle has to have a long action to take the .257 Rbts it's no biggie. A longer throw? Yeah, a bit; but it's no real big deal is it? (like, we're not going after a wounded lion in the long grass.)
That 99 Savage in 250 Savage was one of the best rifles ever made. I've got one in 308 and it's nice. I also have a 1895 Savage in 303 (they all are) and it's a really fine shooter....100 yds, 2 inch groups 1 '' high, off of iron sights with center hold...you just don't get much better than that.
logjam
Member
Point of order:
How do I quote a specific post on this site. I don't see a "quote" posted on the post.
I see the "quote message in reply?" statement, but how does it work?
LJ
How do I quote a specific post on this site. I don't see a "quote" posted on the post.
I see the "quote message in reply?" statement, but how does it work?
LJ
NCsmitty
Member
logjam
Run your cursor over the symbols at the top of the posting space. After you copy and paste the text to the posting space, highlight it and hit the wrap
Run your cursor over the symbols at the top of the posting space. After you copy and paste the text to the posting space, highlight it and hit the wrap
Or click on the quote box and paste your content between the ][ things.
The 257 Bob fits in a short action just fine. The quarterbores use a 1:10 or slower twist rate, that's why you don't see bullets heavier than 120 gr. If there were longer bullets avaliable then it might not work so well in a SA, but there arn't, so it does.
I'll describe the 257 and the 250 Savage like this. Probably half of guns owners asked would say that although the 243 works for deer it's a bit marginal. Nobody thinks of the 25s as marginal and they recoil the same as the 243 both with 100 gr bullets. GREAT deer cartidge that kids can shoot.
Here's the South Carolina deer cartridge test. Note how well the 25s perform on deer compared to the other calibers. Just skip to the bottom if you don't want to read the whole thing. Bottom line, deer are fairly easy to kill and the only thing that cartridges larger then the 25s boost is the shooters ego.
http://www.scilowcountry.org/cedar_knoll_deer_study.htm
I do agree that the 260 mimicks the 257 Bob in recoil and performance plus allows for heavier bullets for larger game.
The 257 Bob fits in a short action just fine. The quarterbores use a 1:10 or slower twist rate, that's why you don't see bullets heavier than 120 gr. If there were longer bullets avaliable then it might not work so well in a SA, but there arn't, so it does.
I'll describe the 257 and the 250 Savage like this. Probably half of guns owners asked would say that although the 243 works for deer it's a bit marginal. Nobody thinks of the 25s as marginal and they recoil the same as the 243 both with 100 gr bullets. GREAT deer cartidge that kids can shoot.
Here's the South Carolina deer cartridge test. Note how well the 25s perform on deer compared to the other calibers. Just skip to the bottom if you don't want to read the whole thing. Bottom line, deer are fairly easy to kill and the only thing that cartridges larger then the 25s boost is the shooters ego.
http://www.scilowcountry.org/cedar_knoll_deer_study.htm
I do agree that the 260 mimicks the 257 Bob in recoil and performance plus allows for heavier bullets for larger game.
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woof
Member
What short action is in .257? It's a 57mm case, that's long. The .308 family case is 51mm so you usually see only .308 family and perhaps .22-250 in short action rifles.
it is not a problem. but if you're going to have a long action, might as well get long action performance.
if you want a short action 25 caliber, pretty tough to beat a 25 souper or 25-284... if those recoil too much for ya, but you still hanker for a short action 25, 250 savage is the way to go... the roberts is just kind of stuck out in the middle.
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