260 Remington short barrel

[Revilo]

Help. Was having bullet tryouts and the Berger 135 Gr Classic Hunter won on others. Berger recommended max load of 42.1 gr of H414 with a projected FPS of 2793. I’ve worked up to 42.9 grains and can only get 2575 FPS. Berger used a 24” barrel 1:8. I am shooting a 20” barrel VTR. I assume the shorter barrel is the cause. I’d like a little more speed so what do I do?
PS. No signs of over pressure on the primer, yet.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Help. Was having bullet tryouts and the Berger 135 Gr Classic Hunter won on others. Berger recommended max load of 42.1 gr of H414 with a projected FPS of 2793. I’ve worked up to 42.9 grains and can only get 2575 FPS. Berger used a 24” barrel 1:8. I am shooting a 20” barrel VTR. I assume the shorter barrel is the cause. I’d like a little more speed so what do I do?
PS. No signs of over pressure on the primer, yet.

My wife's VTR only gets 3000 with a 100 amax projected velocity was 3200 and change.
She just holds over a little more.
There are several powders that should get you better velocity. Reloder 16, aa4450, IMR4350 or H4350 would be top of my list.
H414/ W760 is my go to if I can't get a gun to shoot.
If you're not shooting elk, a 120 gr bullet might be a good option for increasing velocity.

 

[243winxb]

Berger data i see, doesn't list brands of brass or primer. The brass used can make the most difference in pressure and velocity. Velocity is not an indication of pressure.

H414 , a ball powder , needs a mag primer, IMO.

Your 4" shorter barrel may loose 35 fps per inch.

I’d like a little more speed so what do I do.

Check scale with test weights. Check chronograph. The powder charge may not be correct or the fps may be off?

I would load for accuracy , not speed.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/reloading-data/

 

[Captcurt]

I had a compact Ruger 77 in 260 that liked a 120 gr Speer over IMR-4350. Never shot it through the chrono but it was a death ray on whitetails. Speed doesn't kill. A good bullet in the right place works wonders.

 

[Revilo]

Thanks for input. All is welcome as I learn. My interest in speed relates to the bullet performance. I’ve noticed, for example on the Nosler Accubond box, it indicates that 2800 FBS is necessary for the bullet to open properly.
The Bergers are very accurate so I think I will experiment more with the powder.

 

[243winxb]

Move up to the 6.5 PRC cartridge and a 24" barrel. 2950 fps with a 140 gr bullet.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I suggest you try either RL17, or RL22. I’d say H4350, but haven’t seen any for sale for some while.
My .260 is a Rem M-7 CDL w/20”bbl, so my results should be similar to yours.

My preferred load is a Speer 120gr, Rem/Hornady AccuTip (SST’s) Nosler B.T., or Hornady 123gr SST over 47.0gr of RL22, seated to just barely touch the lands (2.820-2.830”).
This gives 2,870fps and MOA accuracy. 43.0gr of H4350 or RL17 essentially duplicates this.
If I seat bullets to recommend depths, I can go heavier on powder, but accuracy/velocity suffers greatly. Exceeds 2moa at 2.720” suggested by Speer.

The 140gr Speer gives 2,580fps over 45.0gr of RL22. 43.0gr with 160gr Sierra, gives 2,400 and is spooky accurate. Shame it’s discontinued!
Too bad too, my rifle has a 1/11” twist barrel, by actual measure.
But, the 120’s will work splendid on deer/black bear. The 140gr Speer will work on anything in lower 48.
I much prefer my Mod-7 in 7mm08. Not as accurate as the .260 but hits noticeably harder. It likes 150gr bullets.

 

[Revilo]

Thanks Goose. My VTR rate of twist is 1:8. I have some H4350 and may give it a try.

 

[horsey300]

Thanks for input. All is welcome as I learn. My interest in speed relates to the bullet performance. I’ve noticed, for example on the Nosler Accubond box, it indicates that 2800 FBS is necessary for the bullet to open properly.
The Bergers are very accurate so I think I will experiment more with the powder.

What's more important is impact velocity, the accubond will still expand properly at 1800fps, you'll have to check with berger for their window, but I believe that they'll still perform down to 1600fps, at what ranges are planning on connecting with your quarry? Also, the Bergers do get the job done but you may not get bone wrecking penetration with them, so without knowing what you're shooting at, you should keep that in mind too. Pushing the berger at 2600 fps, your 1600 fps impact is 900-950 yds, with 1590fps@950 yds (this is at an elevation of 5,000ft you may need to tweak this a bit but you get the idea)

 

[jmr40]

I don't think 4" of barrel will make 200+ fps difference in any rifle. You should see NO MORE than 100 fps if comparing apples to apples.

It is perfectly normal for 2 barrels of the same length to show very different velocities. Berger is probably using a match grade barrel cut to very close tolerances for their data. I doubt if most mass produced 24" barrels will get their advertised speeds.

I have multiple rifles in 308, 30-06, and 6.5 CM. Some with the same barrel length, some different. There is 90 fps difference between the two 30-06 rifles with the same loads from the same 22" barrel length. A friends 30-06 rifle is 130 fps slower than my fastest rifle with ammo from the same box, both with 22" barrels. The 308's with 22" barrels vary between 25-30 fps, and the 18" rifle is only 50-60 fps slower than the 22" guns.

My guess is that you have a barrel that is about 100 fps slower than normal. That combined with the shorter barrel will account for the 200 fps difference. The fact that you're .8 gr over a listed max charge and not getting pressure signs is another clue. The ammo you've loaded may be safe in your rifle, but may well come close 2700 fps and be an overload in another rifle.

FWIW In my admittedly small sample, all of the guns that I've encountered that were significantly slower than expected were Remington's. I've not seen enough to draw any conclusions, just making an observation.

I’d like a little more speed so what do I do?

I'd hunt with it. Most bullets still expand well down to at least 2000 fps, some as slow as 1800 fps. Even with a 2575 fps start at the muzzle I'm betting you're over 1800 fps farther down range than you're willing to shoot. At 400-500 yards it might be an inch or 2 lower but that is easy enough to account for.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I don't think 4" of barrel will make 200+ fps difference in any rifle. You should see NO MORE than 100 fps if comparing apples to apples.

It is perfectly normal for 2 barrels of the same length to show very different velocities. Berger is probably using a match grade barrel cut to very close tolerances for their data. I doubt if most mass produced 24" barrels will get their advertised speeds.

I have multiple rifles in 308, 30-06, and 6.5 CM. Some with the same barrel length, some different. There is 90 fps difference between the two 30-06 rifles with the same loads from the same 22" barrel length. A friends 30-06 rifle is 130 fps slower than my fastest rifle with ammo from the same box, both with 22" barrels. The 308's with 22" barrels vary between 25-30 fps, and the 18" rifle is only 50-60 fps slower than the 22" guns.

My guess is that you have a barrel that is about 100 fps slower than normal. That combined with the shorter barrel will account for the 200 fps difference. The fact that you're .8 gr over a listed max charge and not getting pressure signs is another clue. The ammo you've loaded may be safe in your rifle, but may well come close 2700 fps and be an overload in another rifle.

FWIW In my admittedly small sample, all of the guns that I've encountered that were significantly slower than expected were Remington's. I've not seen enough to draw any conclusions, just making an observation.



I'd hunt with it. Most bullets still expand well down to at least 2000 fps, some as slow as 1800 fps. Even with a 2575 fps start at the muzzle I'm betting you're over 1800 fps farther down range than you're willing to shoot. At 400-500 yards it might be an inch or 2 lower but that is easy enough to account for.

My wife has an identical rifle to the OP. It runs about 200 fps slower than load data would suggest. It's stupid accurate so I just run a softer bullet to make sure they open up.

 

[Varminterror]

I have been through a handful of 260’s of different lengths, from a 29” down to a 14”. In the 20-24” ballpark, expect about 35-45fps/in change. Individual barrels are always a rule unto themselves, but that’s about where you should expect to be - somewhere 120-180fps slower than their 24” data. I think a 14” Stryker pistol was the only 260rem I have owned which I actually enjoyed.

 

[Revilo]

Thanks to all! This weekend, I’m having final hunting bullet/powder tryouts at 200 yds. 3 shots each 7 minutes apart. Assuming minimum muzzle velocity of 2600+ FPS, best group goes hunting following weekend. Tie goes to Sierra.
135 gr Berger H414 43.0 gr
130 gr Sierra GK H4895 35.0 gr

 

[WVRJ]

The more overbore a round has,the more barrel length will affect velocity.260 is a fairly small bore for the case it's loaded in.243 is even worse.Mine would only turn 2500 fps with a 100 grain bullet.Short barrel rifles are more efficient if the bullet is of a larger diameter.My 243 turned 2505 for a 10 shot string.It's now a 308 that shoots 150 grainers at 2850.Small bore in relation to case capacity means more velocity loss in shorter barrels.That's why pistol bullets are short n fat.

 

[horsey300]

The more overbore a round has,the more barrel length will affect velocity.260 is a fairly small bore for the case it's loaded in.243 is even worse.Mine would only turn 2500 fps with a 100 grain bullet.Short barrel rifles are more efficient if the bullet is of a larger diameter.My 243 turned 2505 for a 10 shot string.It's now a 308 that shoots 150 grainers at 2850.Small bore in relation to case capacity means more velocity loss in shorter barrels.That's why pistol bullets are short n fat.

Odd, my .243 runs 2920 with a 100 gr bullet down a 20" tube and single digit ES..........I'm not gonna let it read this thread for fear it'll learn something.

 

[horsey300]

Thanks to all! This weekend, I’m having final hunting bullet/powder tryouts at 200 yds. 3 shots each 7 minutes apart. Assuming minimum muzzle velocity of 2600+ FPS, best group goes hunting following weekend. Tie goes to Sierra.
135 gr Berger H414 43.0 gr
130 gr Sierra GK H4895 35.0 gr

So..... how'd they do?????

 

[Revilo]

Finally got my password RE-set. The hands down winner were the Berger VLD Classic Hunter 135 grain. Sub MOA. PS. Took down a 10 point second weekend. Went thru both shoulders and destroyed everything in between.

 

[Revilo]

 

[Revilo]

Next up, gonna load 120 grain Nosler BT Spitzers. I had good success testing a few out of box of store-bought Federal Premiums with the Nosler BT. With lighter grain will test faster powders than the H414 used on the 135 Bergers. Fastest I have is H335, then H4895, then IMR 4064. Should be interesting. Any ideas or input welcome. Otherwise, I’ll post results Monday.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Next up, gonna load 120 grain Nosler BT Spitzers. I had good success testing a few out of box of store-bought Federal Premiums with the Nosler BT. With lighter grain will test faster powders than the H414 used on the 135 Bergers. Fastest I have is H335, then H4895, then IMR 4064. Should be interesting. Any ideas or input welcome. Otherwise, I’ll post results Monday.

IMR4064 is my preferred powder. I think h414 will give you better velocity though.

 

[25-20 WCF]

My current 1990s-vintage M700VLS shoots 100-120s the best with H414. It just wouldn't agg below 1 moa with faster powders - and I tried a bunch. The BTips have performed very well in accuracy and on game.

.

 

[Revilo]

REM VTR 1:8 twist 20” barrel. 120 grain Nosler BT Spitzer
Loaded IMR 4064 at 37 and 39 grains and H414 at 43 and 45 grains, both with 120 grain Nosler BT. I shot 3 shots of each load with a barrel cleaning at the halfway point and ample time between shots. I also shot a factory Federal Premium with same bullet. Decided the H414 was the winner with either load and mimicked the factory flight. The 37 grain IMR was better than 39 but neither seemed to carry the speed of the H414 (the chrono didn’t work so I was going by elevation on the target).

I will probably load my hunting ammunition with H414 @ 44 grains.

 

[Revilo]

H414 at 43.8 grains was perfect match for 120 gr Nosler BT. Had sub-MOA groups in the Rem VTR. Dropped a cull buck in his tracks this weekend.

 

[Revilo]

OK, i’m Getting consistent groups in my 20” barrel with 135 grain Bergers. I’m only getting 2580 FPS using 41.5 gr of H414. I could press up on grains. Question: would MAGNUM primer change/help.

 

[Bfh_auto]

OK, i’m Getting consistent groups in my 20” barrel with 135 grain Bergers. I’m only getting 2580 FPS using 41.5 gr of H414. I could press up on grains. Question: would MAGNUM primer change/help.

I like a Magnum primer with that powder, just because it's a ball powder. It might help, but not enough to warrant a new load work up.
You could try different powders. There are a few that are supposed to give more velocity.