BoilerUP
Member
The 6.5mm 120gr Nosler BT, 130gr Accubond, and 140gr Sierra Gameking all are VERY effective on game animals...
.260 Remington... thoughts?
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Sorry it took a little time to get back to this, roc1. I never had a Ruger M77 with the tand safety, so I can't compare the two of them, but this one is a very decent rifle, if a little bit heavy on the trigger pull. Breaks very clean though. Overall I'll keep it!
Alright, I decided to give 260 another chance, so I ordered 26" SS varmint barrel by Criterion, I placed it on my old 111 Savage. I'm sorry guys, I was wrong about 260. This thing shoots 0.1" - 0.2" groups using same glass and I just started working on the loads for it.
the top-right one wasn't bad load it was from clean bore that flier is cold shot
and the bottom one is tightest group I got, its almost one hole...
the top-right one wasn't bad load it was from clean bore that flier is cold shot
and the bottom one is tightest group I got, its almost one hole...
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NM Mountainman
Member
.260 is good, 7-08 might be more versatile for hunting.
I agree with those who see the .260 as a niche caliber, as far as hunting goes. For hunting, I prefer the greater versatility and greater range of bullet weights in the 7-08.
The .260 sounds great for long range target shooting, but if that is the main interest, why not go to the .25-06 which is also a very accurate round in many rifles?
For me, a 6mm Rem and a 7mm-08 (or .280) covers the hunting calibers below .30 very well.
But if I were going to design a lightweight carbine with a 20" barrel for hunting whitetail deer at ranges out to 225 yds, I think a .260 or 7-08 might be the new low recoil "ideal deer caliber" to replace the .30-30.
I agree with those who see the .260 as a niche caliber, as far as hunting goes. For hunting, I prefer the greater versatility and greater range of bullet weights in the 7-08.
The .260 sounds great for long range target shooting, but if that is the main interest, why not go to the .25-06 which is also a very accurate round in many rifles?
For me, a 6mm Rem and a 7mm-08 (or .280) covers the hunting calibers below .30 very well.
But if I were going to design a lightweight carbine with a 20" barrel for hunting whitetail deer at ranges out to 225 yds, I think a .260 or 7-08 might be the new low recoil "ideal deer caliber" to replace the .30-30.
Zak Smith
Member
Bullet selection for high BC. But we also shoot .260 instead of 6.5-06, so that only answers half your question.
Sam Cade
Member
Zak: Are you still using that first barrel on the AI?
Zak Smith
Member
I just unscrewed my first .260 barrel (it was a Rock Creek) and ordered a new one.
Sam Cade
Member
Could you give us a rundown of round count vs. accuracy?
Zak Smith
Member
I didn't really count the rounds. It was somewhere over 4500. The barrel would still shoot OK most of the time but the unaccounted-for misses increased, in other words, it started to throw rounds.
I see the .260Rem as a great round but certainly at this point not a round for everyone. If you don't reload it would be a terrible choice. If you do reload, then it should be easy to shoot for time to come. 6.5mm bullets are everywhere in a wide selection. No fear of them going away. With Lapua making brass and the popularity of 6.5mm in Europe I would suspect brass to be available for a while, even if it is expensive. Still, with more and more competition shooters moving towards it Lapua has seen the need, which makes me think quality brass will be produced for quite some time.
As for the round's performance. It really is an all purpose round. While not as ideal for varmint hunting as .22 or 6mm bullets, they are still ok for the job. The 6.5mm bullets can be had in great medium game options or in many "match" style options. You have decent wind drift performance making them great for the longer range paper/steel shooters and you have more energy out there than a .308 making it a good choice for shooting living targets.
The real drawback is factory ammo and rifles. If you are willing to hunt for the rifle you want or have it built and you are willing to load your own ammo it is tough to beat for many jobs.
As for the round's performance. It really is an all purpose round. While not as ideal for varmint hunting as .22 or 6mm bullets, they are still ok for the job. The 6.5mm bullets can be had in great medium game options or in many "match" style options. You have decent wind drift performance making them great for the longer range paper/steel shooters and you have more energy out there than a .308 making it a good choice for shooting living targets.
The real drawback is factory ammo and rifles. If you are willing to hunt for the rifle you want or have it built and you are willing to load your own ammo it is tough to beat for many jobs.
Kachok
Member
Just a quick side note about the 260 vs 7mm-08 both are great hunting rounds no doubt. The great debate is the 260 has better external ballistics due to higher BC bullets while the 7mm has slightly better terminal ballistics due to larger cross section. I personaly side with the 6.5mm crowd on this one though I don't have the 260 I use it's much older ballistic twin the 6.5x55. As far as people trying to compare the 260 to it's case parent the 308 they are simply in totaly different classes when it comes to external ballistics, the 260 will shoot further, flatter, and with less wind drift then the 308 by a healthy margin. The 260 can shoot a 123gr bullet with a .547 BC right at 3000fps, to match that BC the 308 has to use 180gr+ bullets that it can only push to 2700fps. 300fps is greater then the difference between my 270 win and my 270WSM which are a completly different class of trajectory.
Great round. Wonderful bullet. Recoil is just a peck on the cheek. Straight shooter and flat. You cannot get a better rifle for 95% of what you can hunt on this side of the pond. Might be light for elk or Moose, but probably not. Anything that one can hunt with a .270 one can hut with a 260. Long hard bullets penetrate and kill game. Good gun. Let your wife shoot it.
BoilerUP
Member
So DIM, what load through that Criterion produced that bottom group?
Inquiring minds with the exact same barrel want to know...
Inquiring minds with the exact same barrel want to know...
The Swedes would argue "not". 6.5 is their standard moose caliber.
And that is why. Mass is one part of terminal ballistics, velocity is another. But bullet construction and sectional density are important parts as well.
BoilerUP, I don't have my load book with me, but it was H4831SC and 140 gr Nosler CC, on the same target page I tested 139 gr Lapua Scenar and 123 gr Hornady A-Max and powders H4350 and RL-17. The top right target had same 140 gr Nosler CC same seating depth, but RL-17 powder and it showed pressure variation or maybe its just 111 trigger which is non-accutriger. The second line marked 1 and 4 I used H4350 and Lapua Scenar, different seating depth. The top left was 123 gr A-Max with H4350.
I will retest all this loads again, the day I picked wasn't the best, Irene was approaching and it was getting dark with all that thick clouds and rain and I shot my last group the one on the top right, after sunset which is now 7:48 PM
I will retest all this loads again, the day I picked wasn't the best, Irene was approaching and it was getting dark with all that thick clouds and rain and I shot my last group the one on the top right, after sunset which is now 7:48 PM
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GooseGestapo
Member
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I just want to follow up a couple of things from my first post.
My velocities are "low" because of two things:
One, I was looking for accuracy. Sub-moa accuracy from a 6lb rifle. I found it , but at "factory" level velocities. This means 2,400fps from a 160gr bullet (more on this later...). 2,550-2,650fps from a 140gr; and 2,750fps from a 129gr, and 2,800-2,850fps from the 120gr bullets.
I haven't and don't intend to pursue lighter bullets as I don't intend to use it for varmits..... I have other rifle/calibers for such.
I have seen 3,000+ fps from the 120's but primers and case heads were "signing" with burnishes and cratered firing pin holes.
And, we ARE talking about a 20" bbl very light taper barrel , not 26" "axel shaft" barrel.
Lastly, the rifle has "only" a 1/9" twist barrel. It is adequate for the blount 156-160gr bullets, but is marginally stabilizing the 140gr SST's (4" groups at 100yds with 2 of 5 showing "yawing" on target.)
I was looking to achieve at or slightly higher velocities for traditional 6.5's (6.5x54 Manlicher and 6.5x55 w/140-160gr) to see what the "talk" is about the performance/effectiveness on big-game. I achieved it in a "useful" 6.5lb rifle (with scope mounted) rifle. Now that hunting season is about to be upon us, I'll get to "use" the 6.5 and see what the "hoopla" is about.
RE: bullet seating depth with .260Rem. I personally don't see it as problem. I, like Zak Smith said, ran up the pressure before I ran out of room with RL22 and H4831 before I ran out of case capacity. Even IMR7828 and RL25 can be used to full effect in this case. I can seat out to 2.835" with my magazine, but in every instance, even with the 140gr SST, I was against the lands before I ran out of magazine space. In the case of my rifle, best accuracy is with bullets "touching" the grooves. This puts the 140gr Speer HotCore at 2.790" and the Hornady 129 and 140gr Interloks at 2.800" oal. I can seat the bullets deeper and use more powder for another 100fps but accuracy goes from sub-moa to +2moa in a hurry...
Except for the 1/9" twist, Remington got it right. And even the 1/9" twist is OK with what they intended the cartridge to do,,,,,, Shoot the 120 and 140gr flat-base (ie: Corlokt) with very high B.C. bullets fast enough to kill deer effectively..... And do it like a .270 with the recoil of the .243.... Which apparantly it does based on the word of those which have tried it..... Which in 45 days will include me.....
My velocities are "low" because of two things:
One, I was looking for accuracy. Sub-moa accuracy from a 6lb rifle. I found it , but at "factory" level velocities. This means 2,400fps from a 160gr bullet (more on this later...). 2,550-2,650fps from a 140gr; and 2,750fps from a 129gr, and 2,800-2,850fps from the 120gr bullets.
I haven't and don't intend to pursue lighter bullets as I don't intend to use it for varmits..... I have other rifle/calibers for such.
I have seen 3,000+ fps from the 120's but primers and case heads were "signing" with burnishes and cratered firing pin holes.
And, we ARE talking about a 20" bbl very light taper barrel , not 26" "axel shaft" barrel.
Lastly, the rifle has "only" a 1/9" twist barrel. It is adequate for the blount 156-160gr bullets, but is marginally stabilizing the 140gr SST's (4" groups at 100yds with 2 of 5 showing "yawing" on target.)
I was looking to achieve at or slightly higher velocities for traditional 6.5's (6.5x54 Manlicher and 6.5x55 w/140-160gr) to see what the "talk" is about the performance/effectiveness on big-game. I achieved it in a "useful" 6.5lb rifle (with scope mounted) rifle. Now that hunting season is about to be upon us, I'll get to "use" the 6.5 and see what the "hoopla" is about.
RE: bullet seating depth with .260Rem. I personally don't see it as problem. I, like Zak Smith said, ran up the pressure before I ran out of room with RL22 and H4831 before I ran out of case capacity. Even IMR7828 and RL25 can be used to full effect in this case. I can seat out to 2.835" with my magazine, but in every instance, even with the 140gr SST, I was against the lands before I ran out of magazine space. In the case of my rifle, best accuracy is with bullets "touching" the grooves. This puts the 140gr Speer HotCore at 2.790" and the Hornady 129 and 140gr Interloks at 2.800" oal. I can seat the bullets deeper and use more powder for another 100fps but accuracy goes from sub-moa to +2moa in a hurry...
Except for the 1/9" twist, Remington got it right. And even the 1/9" twist is OK with what they intended the cartridge to do,,,,,, Shoot the 120 and 140gr flat-base (ie: Corlokt) with very high B.C. bullets fast enough to kill deer effectively..... And do it like a .270 with the recoil of the .243.... Which apparantly it does based on the word of those which have tried it..... Which in 45 days will include me.....
BoilerUP
Member
My .260 deer load (41.5gr H380 and 120gr Nosler BT) runs 2677fps from my 22" 9 twist Rem 700 Mountain LSS.
Slow, yes...but very accurate from this rifle and my 26" Criterion Savage, and quite deadly on whitetail.
I might eventually get around to working up a faster 4831SC deer load...maybe.
Slow, yes...but very accurate from this rifle and my 26" Criterion Savage, and quite deadly on whitetail.
I might eventually get around to working up a faster 4831SC deer load...maybe.
BoilerUP
Member
48.0gr 4831SC is slightly compressed with the 123gr A-Max seated to 2.815" COAL...but I get absolutely no pressure signs with ES of 20 and SD of 8.
After shooting a bunch of compressed 223 Varget loads, a little crunch when seating doesn't bother me...
After shooting a bunch of compressed 223 Varget loads, a little crunch when seating doesn't bother me...
Zak Smith
Member
There is no need to get any powder compression using H4350 or RL17 with 140gr bullets
BoilerUP, got my load book and the bottom one I used 45.8gr H4831 jammed in the lands, if I measure case with bullet seated by ogive its 2.270" using Hornady bullet comparator. And the one on the top right was seated same way, but with 43gr RL-17 and on all loads I used Federal match primers.
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BoilerUP
Member
As someone who hunts with 260 and does casual paper/steel punching where picking up my brass is not an issue...should I spend the money for 260 Lapua brass, or is RP "good enough"?
I've been using a box of Nosler brass I got on closeout at Bass Pro, but its just as if not more expensive than Lapua unless you find a sale. I've got some RP brass from 3 boxes of factory Rem Accutip ammo and haven't had any issues reloading up to 4 times (thus far), though most of the loads it has seen have been fairly mild.
I appreciate the minimal prep work Lapua & Nosler provide, and don't mind spending more for quality...but when I can get 200 cases for the price of 100 I start to wonder...
I've been using a box of Nosler brass I got on closeout at Bass Pro, but its just as if not more expensive than Lapua unless you find a sale. I've got some RP brass from 3 boxes of factory Rem Accutip ammo and haven't had any issues reloading up to 4 times (thus far), though most of the loads it has seen have been fairly mild.
I appreciate the minimal prep work Lapua & Nosler provide, and don't mind spending more for quality...but when I can get 200 cases for the price of 100 I start to wonder...
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