.264 Win Mag model 70

[Jbird45]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here and was searching for answers but couldn't find what I was looking for. If this has been covered already please forgive me.

A couple years ago I received my Grandfather's Winchester model 70 Westerner in .264 WinMag that he bought brand new in 1960. Everything looks like it is in really nice shape, besides a few minor marks in the stock.

I keep hearing everyone say that this gun is a barrel burner or a throat toaster and I've only put 17 rounds through it in the 3 years I've owned it. When I do shoot it, it's slow and I try to give the barrel sufficient time to cool between shots and clean it after each use.

My question is what are the signs I should be looking for as far a throat erosion and barrel wear? I shoot Nosler trophy grade in it with 130 grain accubonds. I have no clue how many rounds my grandfather put through it and unfortunately I can't ask him (Lord, rest his soul). I don't want to destroy such a fine rifle. Im not the world's best rifleman but it shoots good groups.

Any advice on what I can do to preserve this rifle would be greatly appreciated. I keep it well oiled and in a good case but honestly I'm afraid to shoot it in fear of wearing it out.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[mushu]

i've had the same gun i bought on gunbroker i didn't know rounds fired before i got it but the barrel looked good, i'd usually shoot a box threw it on the range trips. just shoot slow and let the barrel cool and it will last a long time.

 

[sage5907]

Welcome to thehighroad, and it's a great forum for getting information. You're grandfather really did good in that you were able to get his rifle. A Winchester Model 70 like that is really a great rifle and you will get many years of hunting without any problems. It's also good that it has a 24 inch barrel because the 264 works good with the longer barrel. Your rifle has a 1 in 9 twist which is great for the longer bullets. These rifles are top quality and I have several of them in other calibers because it's hard to find a rifle manufactured today of equal quality. Winchester's tolerances were really close and the good thing is that parts and accessories are readily available and fit without any adjustment. I think you could shoot 100 rounds each year without any concern about the barrel. I have two 270 Winchester rifles that were manufactured in 1953 that I fired at lease 100 rounds each year for about 20 years and I haven't seen any loss of accuracy and I purchased these rifles in the 1970's.

Your rifle needs a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad installed by a good gunsmith. They make all the difference in how much you enjoy shooting the rifle. The part number is 752B Medium 1 inch black.

 

[Llama Bob]

My question is what are the signs I should be looking for as far a throat erosion and barrel wear?

Throat erosion is the only kind of wear you'd be concerned about here.

It is possible to see erosion with a bore scope, or measure it by determining how far out you can seat a bullet to touch the lands. However if you're not tooled up for either I wouldn't bother buying stuff. Just shoot it gently, and if and when the barrel wears out get it set back or a new one but on. The reality is that cartridges like the .264, barrels are a wear item. Re-barreling really isn't that big a deal. Just find a competent gunsmith.

 

[Picher]

Judging by the group you shot, the barrel is in great shape. I wouldn't take it to the range and shoot a hundred round through it, but check the zero before hunting season and take it hunting on nice days. The barrel will probably last another 20 years or more if used that way.

If you're a handloader and want to shoot more, consider light loads in the manual, but you probably have other rifles you can shoot without worrying about barrel erosion problems. Even if the barrel is eventually eroded, the rifle can be re-barreled for a cartridge that may be more shooting range friendly.

 

[Bbear]

The average hunter will never live long enough to wear out that rifle. 17 rounds in three years won't put a whole lot of wear on the barrel. 17 rounds as fast as you work the bolt on the other hand, will wear on a barrel.
I would guess, with your amount of shooting, you have between 1200 and 1750 rounds before you'll start seeing any decline in accuracy.
I have a 25-06 that has over 3000 rounds through it and though I'm 'chasing the lands' with my reloads, still puts 5 shots inside .75".
Those Model 70's were built to last and yours should be able to be passed along to the next generation.

 

[jmr40]

Just for perspective, rounds like 308 will last at least 5000 rounds and still retain target grade accuracy. Most of the barrels will still be hunting accurate for 10,000 rounds. When people talk about barrel burners they are usually talking about rounds that will leave a barrel less than acceptable for target use at under 2000 rounds. But you can usually double that number of rounds and still be accurate enough for hunting. Most hunters don't put 3000 rounds through a hunting rifle in a lifetime. Target shooters will do that every few months.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Welcome. Your grandfather passed a great rifle too you. Treat it well and it will last a long time.
The 264 has been a dream cartridge for me. I have a 240 WBY that has a similar bore to powder ratio. I just shoot it slowly when shooting paper.
My 223 and 260 get the most of my range time.

 

[JeffG]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here and was searching for answers but couldn't find what I was looking for. If this has been covered already please forgive me.

A couple years ago I received my Grandfather's Winchester model 70 Westerner in .264 WinMag that he bought brand new in 1960. Everything looks like it is in really nice shape, besides a few minor marks in the stock.

I keep hearing everyone say that this gun is a barrel burner or a throat toaster and I've only put 17 rounds through it in the 3 years I've owned it. When I do shoot it, it's slow and I try to give the barrel sufficient time to cool between shots and clean it after each use.

My question is what are the signs I should be looking for as far a throat erosion and barrel wear? I shoot Nosler trophy grade in it with 130 grain accubonds. I have no clue how many rounds my grandfather put through it and unfortunately I can't ask him (Lord, rest his soul). I don't want to destroy such a fine rifle. Im not the world's best rifleman but it shoots good groups.

Any advice on what I can do to preserve this rifle would be greatly appreciated. I keep it well oiled and in a good case but honestly I'm afraid to shoot it in fear of wearing it out.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Beauty of a rifle! I have never "shot out" a rifle in bolt action. That's a great caliber! I'm guessing grand dad didn't shoot a large amount of rounds, either.

 

[Gordon]

I have a 1959 Westerner and yours should have a 26 " barrel.I also have a 62 Featherweight in .264 and that has a 22" barrel and shoots 80 fps less with most non ultra slow powders. I would treat it as you are doing and hunt it for many years. Even if you were to up date the scope and mounts it shouldn't take more than 20 rounds to sight it in after. These are sought after a d timeless classic guns. Unfortunately modern people seem to like new stuff and in my opinion non special collector pre 64 model 70s have become undervalued. Your gun MIGHT fetch $1500 on gun broker as the .264 is a desirable chambering. It should be snatched up for twice that In my opinion but my $.02 is worth just that .
The .264 is a wonderful long distance game killer up thru elk. And the premier antelope, mountain sheep and goats caliber. I have mostly burned H870 powder in mine under 140 Sierra Game Kings. At 200 yards or better they stay together well but closer in they can blow up so not a good elk load.

 

[SwampWolf]

Your rifle needs a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad installed by a good gunsmith.

This is good advice if you prioritize shooting comfort and don't mind losing a couple hundred or so dollars in the collector's market (as Gordon advised, the .264 Magnum chambering is desirable in a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 rifle). In terms of extending barrel life, especially in a rifle chambered for high velocity cartridges, give the barrel time to cool down between shots. Imo, rapid fire in any firearm will add to bore wear and tear but especially so when high-stepping bullets are chasing the target.

 

[sage5907]

I have a 1959 Westerner and yours should have a 26 " barrel.I also have a 62 Featherweight in .264 and that has a 22" barrel and shoots 80 fps less with most non ultra slow powders.

As usual, Gordon was correct. During production Winchester used three different barrels for the 264 Winchester. The #2 barrel was a 26 inch CM barrel. The #7 barrel was a 26 inch stainless barrel. The #10 barrel was a 22 inch CM featherweight barrel. I stand corrected.

 

[Jbird45]

Thanks everyone for all the great information! I greatly appreciate it! I measured my barrel and it is a 26" barrel. I do not plan to modify the rifle in any form and want to keep it original. As far as recoil goes it really isn't that hard of a kicker. My shooting buddies .338 win mag kicks twice as hard if not more. I am not going to do any high volume shooting with it but I feel more confident that if I put a couple rounds a year through it and shoot it slow I will hopefully be able to hand it down to my future grandkids and teach them the same way of taking care of it. I do plan on taking it on an antelope hunt out west though and hopefully I will get a decent buck to hang next to Grandpa's.

 

[Picher]

Every time I see or hear anything about a .264 Win, it gives me the shivers as I remember hunting woodchucks with my buddy one day. We were walking in a field and I spotted a woodchuck at the top of the hill that appeared to be lying on it's mound. We never shot where we didn't have something behind the quarry, so we went to the left, just beyond a hedgerow, so we could get a safer shot.

When we got to the top of the hill and looked where the woodchuck was, there was a young woman with woodchuck-colored hair lying in the sun!!! I kinda got the shakes, thinking how close she came to getting shot, and may have if someone else who wasn't as careful came the same way we did. We suggested that she not lie down at the top of a hill, but in more of a protected area.

Anyway, we went toward her and asked her why she was sunning there and she said that her boyfriend was hunting woodchucks in nearby fields. He happened to be using a .264 Winchester, which we found out when we met him. He's the only person we ever met who hunted woodchucks using that cartridge. We used .30-06s, like many Maine deer hunters who practiced field shooting woodchucks.

 

[Jbird45]

Every time I see or hear anything about a .264 Win, it gives me the shivers as I remember hunting woodchucks with my buddy one day. We were walking in a field and I spotted a woodchuck at the top of the hill that appeared to be lying on it's mound. We never shot where we didn't have something behind the quarry, so we went to the left, just beyond a hedgerow, so we could get a safer shot.

When we got to the top of the hill and looked where the woodchuck was, there was a young woman with woodchuck-colored hair lying in the sun!!! I kinda got the shakes, thinking how close she came to getting shot, and may have if someone else who wasn't as careful came the same way we did. We suggested that she not lie down at the top of a hill, but in more of a protected area.

Anyway, we went toward her and asked her why she was sunning there and she said that her boyfriend was hunting woodchucks in nearby fields. He happened to be using a .264 Winchester, which we found out when we met him. He's the only person we ever met who hunted woodchucks using that cartridge. We used .30-06s, like many Maine deer hunters who practiced field shooting woodchucks.

I've seen what the .264 does to medium sized game. I can't imagine what it would do to a woodchuck!

 

[Picher]

I've seen what the .264 does to medium sized game. I can't imagine what it would do to a woodchuck!

It depends on the bullet used. I don't know if they make "varmint" bullets for the .264, but even medium-game type bullets would open them up pretty well, for sure.

FYI: Remembrance, over 50 years ago. My buddy and I only had .30-06 rifles, but handloaded 125 grain Sierra bullets that opened quite well. One day, I was pretty much out of handloads (which we made on a friends press), so we stopped at a hardware store and I got some "Mushroom Tip" 110 grain, Remington factory rounds. I shot one chuck that day. It was about 100 yards away, quartering towards us. At the shot, it "exploded" with various parts flying in a 15 foot circle! I've never seen such destruction before or since. (By the time we walked back from a farther field, maybe a half-hour or so, crows had devoured all the meat.)

 

[Bull Nutria]

I don't know where you live but keeping a rifle in a soft case can lead to surface rust especially in the deep south. I store my rifles without a case well oiled in the muzzle down position in a gun safe.

Your grandfather left you a very fine classic rifle, Looks like you know what you have and you appreciate it!! Good for you!!

Bull

 

[Jbird45]

I don't know where you live but keeping a rifle in a soft case can lead to surface rust especially in the deep south. I store my rifles without a case well oiled in the muzzle down position in a gun safe.

Your grandfather left you a very fine classic rifle, Looks like you know what you have and you appreciate it!! Good for you!!

Bull

Bull,

I live in WI. I keep it in a hard case with some silica packets to help with moisture and I also keep it upstairs in a climate controlled room. I have a silicone oil cloth I bought from Cabela's and I wipe it down everytime I handle it before putting it back in the case. A gun safe is the next thing on my list to get to help protect it even more. Maybe I'm going overboard but I want to take care of it.

 

[westernrover]

Note that the barrel is stainless steel. Even though it looks blued, it's stainless. Because of that, you do not need to rub the barrel with an oiled cloth frequently and you will only rub the blueing off if you do that too often or too vigorously. Do wipe down the receiver, trigger guard, and magazine parts which are blued steel and machined from bar stock. Winchester made the barrels stainless steel to prolong barrel life due to the possibility of throat erosion from such an overbore cartridge. Only the .257 Weatherby Magnum was more overbore at the time. The problem with throat erosion might have been magnified by the market position for the .264 Winchester Magnum, which promised usefulness as a varminter as well as a big game rifle. Loaded with light bullets, the 264WM can indeed be used as a varminter, but it turned out to be an ill-advised use of the available barrel life. As a deer, elk, antelope gun, the barrel life was never an issue.

 

[SwampWolf]

I live in WI. I keep it in a hard case with some silica packets to help with moisture and I also keep it upstairs in a climate controlled room.

You're probably okay storing your rifle this way in a climate controlled environment but, generally speaking, I don't think it's ever a good idea to keep any firearm enclosed in a case for long periods of time. Maybe I'm the one "going overboard" but I've seen what bad things can happen to the finish of a gun stored in a closed case where just a trace of moisture was present.

 

[earlthegoat2]

The oft forgotten 6.5mm Win Mag. Very desirable chambering in a pre-64 Model 70. Fantastic rifle you have there.

I have owned a commercial Mauser made by Heym and branded Herters in .264 mag. Went lefty and stopped using bolt actions and sold it. There is a lefty Weatherby Mk5 in .257 Weatherby I would like to buy as a pseudo replacement for that rifle.

But I would love to have that rifle if yours. Cherish it friend. It is probably one of the finest rifles and cartridges made.

 

[Gordon]

The original 100 grain bulleted ammo winchester made for "light game and varmints" indeed would blow up under 300 yards and was a very poor deer gun . I loaded 87 Speer Spitzers back in the day for Varmint hunting larger than ground squirrels, which I did not shoot because of the expense and overkill. My favorite load I developed was a slightly compressed case full of H870 under a Sierra Game 140 BT . I shot 4 antelope over the years with it. And lots of deer.

 

[Hookeye]

Knew a guy that had same rig.....for chucks. Gravel lane.....Bonneville.....if i remember his story correctly. Was on one side all windows down. Chuck pops out in field on other side. Uses door for rest to shoot through car to chuck. Dust flew everywhere......headliner sagged big time.

 

[Hookeye]

Exploding chucks. Not uncommon w .243 win and some varmint bullets. Esp when well fed ....standing.....drop the crosshairs on the belly inside of 150 and pop em. Looks like a grey dusty miss sometimes. Usually get hint of red or green in the cloud. Done it on purpose a few times. The mess and stink....immediate swarm of flies and later yellow jackets.......not worth it. Impressive to show a newb though. I switched to 70 gr Nosler BT and chest to neck hits. Lots more camera friendly results. Did flub one at 250. Chuck on rock in shade
Hit rock just under. Giant splatter.

 

[Hookeye]

I saw a well used M70 in . 264 for sale at LGS last fall. Let it pass. Id have snagged it if not wanting a MKV in .257 for so long. Just for yotes.