270 Winchester too light for lions???

[bcp]

I don't know anything about lions, but the San Fransisco Police Dept has found 25-30 .40 S&W's will eventually stop a 300 lb tiger.

From:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/28/us/28tiger.html?ref=us

"The tiger was killed by three shots fired by four police officers."
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Regarding the use of a 270--Don't think of it as lion hunting, think of it as close quarter combat with a lion. Still think a 270 is OK?

A 270 might be OK if you can be a lion sniper.

Bruce

 

[357fan]

.270 for lions? From a helicopter, sure.

With my feet on the ground, not for all the tea in China.

 

[akodo]

It is not theoretical.....the gun shop's owner (a guy in his 60's) where I buy some of my guns and equipment, I can even give you the name, Dj Loans & Sports in Bothell, WA, has dropped more than one Grizzly with a 30-30 and one in a charging situation.....he regularly hunt in Africa and South America so he is been there and done that... (6 months ago he went on a hunting trip in Venezuela and other countries and dropped a South American big cat with a 270 Winchester)

He always tell me that it is better having a quick second shot and to shoot with a gun that doesn't make you flinch rather than using a cannon you can barely control.....again it is his opinion and other people think differently

1. don't believe everything you hear.
2. many grizzes have been taken with 30-30, when that is all the hunter had avaible. Some grizzes have been killed by Indian Braves armed with lances, or just knives. He may not fess up to it now, but I bet when that grizz charged him, he regretted having only a 30-30. Many guids who carry 375s in bear country will say 'I though 30-06 or 338 would be plenty, until I actually got charged by a grizz'
3. Yes, shooting a gun that you cannot handle is worse than shooting a caliber some would term 'innapropraitely weak'. For example, you are in Lion country, and need to step outside and take a wizz. There are two guns in the tent, a 30-30 and the PH's 460 weatherby, you'd be better off taking the 30-30 with you than the 460 you cannot handle. Truth is, neither of them is a good choice. In dangerous game country, shoot the biggest thing you can shoot well.
4. jaguar are much smaller than lions, and normally are persued with hounds, treed, then shot, or shot from a long distance when sighted at a clearing or stream, entirely different than lion hunting.

 

[Partyguy816]

would you rather havea 270 or a 375 H&H?

I'd take a 416 instead. I have a 375, but I'd feel better with something bigger.

 

[akodo]

hey bruce, does that newspaper article say how 4 cops managed to fire 3 times? Did 2 of em fire a half?

 

[AndyC]

270 is too light and too fragile for reliable (as reliable as they get, that is) shots on lion. Lived 30 years in Africa and saw too many hypersonic bullets blow up on game - Weatherby would be a typical example.

Me? I'll take slugs in a 12 Ga side-by-side.

 

[Roswell 1847]

Me? I'll take slugs in a 12 Ga side-by-side.

Col Patterson shot one of the Maneaters of T'savo point blank twice in the back from a perch at a downward angle with a 12 gauge. The Punkin balls went under the skin and slthered a few inches along the spine but only knocked the Lion down for a moment. When the lion was killed later they found the slugs. Of course those were some real monsters.

2. many grizzes have been taken with 30-30, when that is all the hunter had avaible. Some grizzes have been killed by Indian Braves armed with lances, or just knives.

I'd always heard that the Indians themselves said no Indian had ever killed a Grizzly before they got guns.

Black Bear were another story, the Indians in this region had to first apologize to the Bear and use only a club to kill one.

 

[akodo]

na, man has been killing big bears for eons, including the predicesor of today's brown bear, the shortfaced bear and it's cousin the cave bear.

 

[cornman]

How about thinking it over and not hunting a lion? There are not that many lions left in the world and they are miraculous creatures. I am amazed how many hunters have dog that they love and consider a member of the family, yet have no problem killing another creature with equil or greater inteligence. We need to wake up on this planet and stop killing for fun. GOD did not put lions here so we could kill them for sport. IMHO

 

[Roswell 1847]

na, man has been killing big bears for eons, including the predicesor of today's brown bear, the shortfaced bear and it's cousin the cave bear.

people back then were a lot tougher than modern man has been for thirty thousand years and I've heard of no evidence that any man ever killed a Shortfaced Bear. Shortfaced Bears could have eaten Grizzly for lunch.
Neanderthal burials have included Cave Bear skulls but the Neanderthal was three times stronger than modern man on average, and their skeletons show signs of having healed after injuries that would kill any modern human.

You can kill a Big bear easily enough if he's trapped in a deadfall or something like that. But I wouldn't sugest getting in a knife fight with a creature that has claws as big as knives on each paw, especially with a flint knife , they seldom have blades more than four inches long except for flimsy ceremonial blades.

I have seen a film of an Eskimo killing a Polar bear with a Harpoon though. So that at least is confirmed as possible.

 

[bcp]

hey bruce, does that newspaper article say how 4 cops managed to fire 3 times? Did 2 of em fire a half?

Another article said the 4 officers emptied their pistols at the tiger. I haven't seen a report on exact number fired. Also, was it three hits altogether or 3 vital hits?

Bruce

 

[T. Bracker]

Yes, a .270 will kill a lion, as will a number of other common cartridges. The point is, that you may have to stop a lion and that is a whole different thing. The list of cartridges that MIGHT reliably stop a lion charge is fairly short, and quite a few good cartridges are not on it! As an aside, the lion charge video is a penned lion in S.A., not quite the same thing as a truly wild lion that routinely kills Cape buff for food. The poor shooting finally pissed him off enough to charge.