296/H110 alterantives 357 load?

[Blueduck]

Trying to build up a full power 158 Gold-dot load for GP-100 and Marlin 1894. Simalar load for 158 SWC's would also be nice for practice.

Main problem is powder, just have not been that impressed with H110/296 powders. Both seem fairly dirty, of lesser importance would also be nice to use standard as opposed to magnum primers.

Ideas???

 

[Pumpkinheaver]

I've never had a problem with H-110 being dirty in any of my weapons. Have you tried 2400.

 

[Gewehr98]

My H110/WW296 loads actually burn pretty darned clean.

Both in my Desert Eagle and S&W M-19.

Are you using enough crimp?

 

[Blueduck]

Maybe not really dirty so much as a lot of unburned powder I'd rather not get in the 1894's action each time I shoot.

Yeah crimp was first thing I thought but still pretty much same deal crimped to heck

Anyone try the "furin" powders such as VV? for this kind of purpose?

 

[fecmech]

Blueduck-Try Blue Dot I shoot mainly cast and next to no jacketed, but Blue dot equals velocities and accuracy of 296 and 2400 out of my pistol and Rossi single shot rifle. Using the 173 gr. "Keith" swc and an H&G 160 gr RN handgun velocities run right at 1300fps and rifle runs a little over 1600fps. Nick

 

[Kamicosmos]

First off, if you're getting unburned powder with H110, you're not using enough powder. Remember, only drop H110 by 3%, this is per Hodgdon.

I load (I'm at work, and so don't have my data right here) I believe 15.5 grains of H110 for a 158 gr bullet. Heavy crimp, and mag primers. Any less and I get a LOT of unburned powder. Same thing applies to WC820. I believe my charge for that is like 14.8 or so. (I'll double check my notes when I get home.)

As far as alternative powders I use Blue Dot, WC820(Similar to AA#9). I am also going to experiment with Power Pistol in both .357 and .44 Mag.

 

[Bullet]

Blueduck,

I’ve tried these in my GP100 six inch barrel –

Speer 158 Gr. Gold Dot Hollow Point

Blue Dot – 10.2 Gr. – Federal 100 Primers – OAL 1.575 – FPS 1212

2400 – 14.8 Gr – Federal 100 Primers – OAL 1.575 – FPS 1221

H110 – 15.5 Gr – Federal 200 Primers – OAL 1.575 – FPS 1213

These are MAX LOADS in the Speer manual.

The FPS I listed were on my chronograph.

 

[scott5]

357 load

Hey BlueDuck;
Have you thought of the Ramshot powders?
True Blue is a slow powder that you can drive a 158gr bullet to 1300fps
with a non magnum primer.
Enforcer is slower than True Blue but it needs a mag primer.
I've used VV110 and VV350 and they both burn clean and don't
need a mag primer, VV110 is in the H110/W296 burning range

 

[griz]

AA#9 works well but does better with mag primers. 2400 may be ideal in that regular primers work fine, but it isn't noted for cleanliness though.

 

[caz223]

As for 2400, it's a good powder, but I suspect that H110 burns cleaner.
If you're looking for a cheaper full power alternative, blue dot works great in the small magnum, esp in light loads like 125-140 grainers.
2400, H110, and blue dot like pressure, so don't wuss out, don't reduce more than absolutely necessary for the most consistant ignition.
As far as 158 grain or better, I really can't think of a better powder than H110.
I have had somewhat heated debates on whether blue dot needs magnum primers or not, and at very least in cold weather, like 20 degrees F or lower, a magnum primer is a must.
It's a very coarse flake, and esp. when in compressed loads needs all the ignition power it can get.
I use magnum primers for blue dot in everything except for 9mm, (If I had to use blue dot for it...) or similarly sized cases.

 

[Werewolf]

Accurate #9 has always worked well for me in both .357 Mag and .44 Mag.

It has been my experience that it also meters way better than the H110 (never tried W296).

 

[JNewell]

First off, if you're getting unburned powder with H110, you're not using enough powder.

Yes, I was thinking exactly the same.

 

[ChristopherG]

2400 and N110 will work without mag primers and produce very efficient loads from your GP100--though the powders that get the greatest advantage out of a carbine 357 are the slower burning ones, like H110/296 or my personal favorite for my 1894c, Hodgdon's Lil'gun. Numerous folks report shooting 158 JHPs at over 1900 fps from an 18.5" 1894c with a book-max load of 18 grs of lil'gun, and I have gotten particularly superb accuracy (like near 1MOA @ 100 yrds) using Hornady's 158 gr. XTP Flat Point, which is designed to hold up at these rather extreme velocities.

As far as the unburnt powder problem, the preceding assessments are right. You more or less load H110/296 at max or not at all. The only load Winchester lists for 296 & a 158 JHP is 16.6 grains. Load that over a mag primer, and you will certainly not have any unburnt residue.

As far as a LSWC, you won't want to load it at carbine speeds (>1800 fps) unless it's gas checked; and if it's gas checked, you'll probably be able to get JSP's cheaper, from midwayusa.com (remingtons) or zero bullets (rozedist.com).

 

[Blueduck]

Thanks for all advice and suggestions

One question, after downloading VV's website manual for N110 load data noticed they said to use a small RIFLE primer for the 357 mag load?

I'd only heard of using rifle primers in pistols as a "Don't do" to mask signs of high pressure you really needed to be seeing???

 

[The Bushmaster]

WOW!!! This string sure took off...H110/W-296/2400. Pick one...They are about the same in performance. 2400 takes less by about 2 grains to accomplish the same velosities as the other two, but performance is still the same. Clean burning? You bet, but you better make sure that the crimp is substantial especially with W-296. All three powders require a strong crimp to perform properly. I don't like H110 only because it has a higher recoil and is adveritized as such ("The Man's Powder"). I use 2400 in my Colt SAA 4 3/4" .357 mag., W-296 in my Ruger Blackhawk 6 1/2" .357 mag. and W-231 in my S&W Mod 19 2 1/2" .357 Combat Mag. The three are no dirtier or cleaner then any other powder that I have used and I have tried them all except the new powder companys that have sprang up in other countries.

 

[zeke]

BlueDuck-Am using V V -N110 with standard Fed small pistol primers for several 357 mag bullet weights (especially for short carbine). Very clean and accurate, but not quite the velocity of slower powders (296,110, lil-gun). Am figuring they are already going faster, and fast enough, through that carbine barrel. Speer's last manual lists loads, using standard small pistol primers, while warning about increases of pressure using listed loads and magnum primers.