3 lives saved via CPR

Status
Not open for further replies.

TheeBadOne

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
2,217
Location
Nemo sine vitio est
Ridgeland Police Sgt. Gary Davis isn't a teacher, but more than 400 people have learned an important skill thanks to his instruction.

Davis, a school-based officer for all public schools in Ridgeland, has been training eighth-graders in cardiopulmonary resuscitation since 2000.

"I always had a dream to train students in CPR," Davis said. "Then I had the idea of training them to be instructors."

With the help of the American Heart Association, Davis started a pilot program at Olde Towne Middle School in Ridgeland. The school is now a training site for all area schools.

Kamesha Ellis of the American Heart Association in Jackson said training students in CPR combines school safety and community health goals. "It's on a community level," she said of the program. "The target point is to have all the students trained."

Davis is also training students in the Jackson school district. Five students at Wingfield High and Forest Hill High are now instructor-trainers.

Mallori Rushing and Terri Crawford, both seniors at Ridgeland High, are among the newest instructor-trainers. "I thought it would be awesome to teach other people about CPR," said Rushing, 17. "It's such an important part of life."

Rushing, Crawford and others taught their entire eighth-grade class CPR. Crawford estimates that the Davis-trained instructor-trainers have taught about 40 people to be instructor-trainers. "We've taught at least 400 people, total," Rushing said.

"If it can save just one person's life, we've served our purpose," said Crawford, 18.

"Since we've had CPR in the Ridgeland schools, we've had three documented saves," Davis said. "Two were choking, and one person shot himself with a nail gun."

article
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your kit is not complete if you don't posess basic 1st Aid skills and CPR. Check with your local College, FD, or Hospital for classes in your area. The life you save may be your wife, son, daughter, friend, or me.

TBO
 
TBO,

As a former Paramedic and CPR Instructor/Trainer, I sometimes look at stories about "CPR Saves" with a jaundiced eye.

Studies conducted by several health organizations show that people in true cardiac arrest have about a 25% chance of converting (regaining respirations and pulse) even if the arrest is witnessed by a PM, who immediately begins CPR, administers the correct cardiac drugs, and attempts to de-fib the patient if indicated.

I don't downplay the importance of people learning CPR, it's just that I believe in a lot of cases, the patient may be unconscious for one reason or another, but is not necessarily in cardiac arrest.

Way back when "Emergency" was on TV in the 70's, they used to show Gage and DeSoto administering the "pre-cordial thump" to patients.

After that, people who complained of chest pains ran the risk of someone who learned CPR from TV delivering a hammer blow to their sternum, perhaps breaking ribs and puncturing lungs and livers. The "pre-cordial thump" was discontinued for non-ems personnel after that.

I think that the advent of the AED (Automatic External Defibrillator) is a great thing, but they're not in enough places because of their high cost.
 
Last edited:
I have to second what MarkDido wrote. I reviewed the international literature on the effectivenss of CPR and was shocked to find that it has very little benefit to cardiac arrest victems. What I surmised was that rescue breathing, airway obstruction removal, and AED use appear to be much more effective in ultimate survival of these victems. OTOH, pumping blood around the circulatory system to keep the brain oxygenated while waiting for properly equiped EM technicians to arrive on scene is of value, but heroic efforts for more than a short time appear to have little benefit.
 
I'm very well aware of the stats for CPR (every instructor I've seen has included them).
The important part is this. Even if it failed 99 out of 100 times.......if that one time it works, it's worth it (think your kid/wife/parent/etc).
 
CPR is a useful tool in your tool box

I have a CPR save. Was first on the scene at an EMS call. The man was down on the couch. His wife had just returned home and found him there. His right hand was hanging off the couch and was already starting to turn purple from lividity. I was about to call for the coroner when the sergeant arrived and suggested we start CPR until the ambulance arrived to calm the man's wife who was naturally very distraught. The ambulance arrived, paramedics took over and they got him to the hospital. With all the drugs, defib etc, the ER doctor managed to get him stable enough to leave the ER, hence the save. The paramedics later told us that the mans family doctor had words with the ER doctor who he thought should have just pronounced him DOA. The victim never did really regain conciousness and passed away two days later.

From looking at him, I wouldn't have believed any about of CPR or other heroic measures would have brought him back. We carry AEDs in the squad cars nowdays. But I wouldn't totally discount CPR as a technique.

Jeff
 
A pulseless person's brain begins to die after about 5 minutes of no pulse. CPR will not deliver enough oxygen to keep the brain from dying, but it will delay death or the extent of brain damage with the hope that Paramedics can restore a perfusing rhythm. Not many ambulances can arrive 4 minutes after your heart stops, so if your heart stops, you better have someone around who knows CPR.

Yes, CPR usually fails, but sometimes it saves enough brain & heart cells to make a difference.
 
I've seen CPR saves in the hospital, but I'm not aware of any out on the street. They happen, but they're rare. I'm talking real saves here, where the patient regains functional status.
I've seen one case in which the patient was conscious during CPR, but did not have a viable rhythm. Clearly he was getting adequate perfusion to his brain during CPR.
"Desperate times call for desperate measures, but they don't always work."
 
Does the percentage of "saves" really matter? I mean, when someone you love collapses suddenly, with no breathing/pulse, what else are you going to do after 911's been called? Just stand around wailing & crying and watch them die?! Especially when EMS is 20-30min out?
 
Perhaps the best lesson to glean from CPR training/save statistics is this: keep your heart healthy by making good lifestyle choices, because if you have a massive heart attack outside an ER, chances are you are going to die right there.

BTW I start EMT-B training next Monday.
 
CPR alone is at best 5% effective, it's just buys time untill cardiac drugs and an AED can come into play, at which point it's no greater than 25%, much less in my opinion. I've been a volunteer EMT for nearly 2 years and am a nursing student and I don't have one save. Not one of the many cardiac arrests i've worked has resulted cardiac conversion (that's with drugs and a defib) and it's certainly not me. :uhoh:
 
I think this guy is doing his community a great service. CPR should be one of the basic life skills taught in school. But then there are a lot of things like that, that should be taught to every child in this country instead of a lot of the crap they do teach.
CPR is a proven technique that has saved countless lives.

"Not one of the many cardiac arrests i've worked has resulted cardiac conversion (that's with drugs and a defib) and it's certainly not me."
No, I am sure it is not you. The problem is that you didn't have anything to work with when you got there because there was no bystander CPR and possibly (probably ?) an extended response time. I have restored a perfusing rhythm in many cardiac arrest patients, possibly over 100 and have performed CPR easily over 1000 times (sometimes several times a day). But then, I have been working full time as a paramedic for the last 21 years. This outcome has increased dramatically over the last four or five years since most of the hotel security guards in Las Vegas (along with personel in many pubilc buildings) are now trained in CPR and have AEDs readily available. Many of the hotels employ security guards that are EMTs and some are paramedics. In a hotel or public building in Las Vegas, downtime to CPR time is very short. Downtime to defibrillation is minutes.
I have to brag here and say that we have a very good EMS system. As most people know, there isn't much that goes on in Las Vegas that is not captured by a security camera. I have seen many tapes in which someone goes down in a hotel. As soon as it became obvious that the person was in trouble, the "eye in the sky" dispatched security to their location. Security arrives within seconds and begins CPR. Within minutes a security guard with an AED arrives and administers shocks. Within minutes of that paramedics arrive and using an adapter plug the AED defib pads into our Lifepacks.
I can honestly say that I have saved my own life using a technique taught in a basic CPR class. I was at home, alone, and choked on a piece of steak. My airway was completely obstructed. If I hadn't taken a CPR class, I am quite sure I would have died.
 
The problem is that you didn't have anything to work with when you got there because there was no bystander CPR and possibly (probably ?) an extended response time.

That statement is dead on. I got to this one arrest where the entire family was there. The girl was getting her hair braided, and they were all pretty much ignoring their dead grandmother. I asked the girl politely to move so i could get around the side with the monitor and O2 and she sighed and gave me this look like "why must you inconvenience me with this?"

I've never supressed the urge to slap someone more than right there.

Don't get me wrong, i fully support everyone knowing CPR, just that the first lesson in CPR should always be "it doesn't work like Baywatch"
 
I agree. It is a well proven fact that CPR alone, without quick ALS intervention has a very poor success rate; almost nil.
Obviously the person in cardiac arrest has a very serious medical condition that has a cause. Simply doing mouth to mouth and chest compressions isn't going to solve the problem completely, however it may keep the person alive so they can be treated for whatever caused them to arrest .

Something to think about: If you are somewhere and a person you love suffers cardiac arrest for whatever reason, odds are, you won't have access to medical equipment. But since you love this person you want and need to do everything you can for them. What you can do is immediately call 911 and start CPR. If they don't make it (likely) at least you know you did everything you could for them.
Gun content. Using CPR in the above case is no different than carrying a firearm for personal protection. The chances of you using it are pretty slim. And, if you use it, it might not save your life. But would you rather go down shooting or cowering on the ground ? Would you rather die knowing you did all you could, or die knowing you just rolled over and took it.
 
The point of CPR really isn't getting complete conversion, it's just to keep oxygen going to the brain and heart so there's something to work with.

It comes as no suprise however that people (who watch TV) think a breath and 3 compressions later they'll cough, wake up, thank you and go about their business.
 
Even if CPR isn't effective medically enough to warrant it's teaching, it is worth it just for the fact that people are preparing to help people.

Getting kids into the mindset that being prepared is a good thing is worth it all by itself. CPR training is like a CCW pistol they can carry with them all the time. They are ready to help and may well be more aware of their environment and how they fit into it because they are prepared. Who knows, it may spark a lifelong love of preparedness and all that entails.

Good stuff.

- Gabe
 
"Even if CPR isn't effective medically enough to warrant it's teaching, it is worth it just for the fact that people are preparing to help people."

I understand your point, however keep in mind that CPR is certainly medically effective and is taught to pretty much anyone in the medical profession from the most highly educated surgeon or specialist down to the layperson. They are taught it, because it is a proven medical proceedure performed hundreds of thousands of times a year.
 
"It comes as no suprise however that people (who watch TV) think a breath and 3 compressions later they'll cough, wake up, thank you and go about their business."

At the risk of boring everyone, I have to tell a war story.
I would guess the year was 1984. We responded to a diabetic call in a hotel. We got there and it was a bunch of crap. We got ready to clear when security said, hey I think we have something else going on if you want to check it out while you are here. I told my partner to check it out and I would be right there while I finished up with the call we were on. I started walking back to where my partner went and through the crowd I see my partner on the floor doing CPR on someone and was doing actual mouth to mouth on the guy because I had all the equipment with me. This guy had arrested while standing, fell, and did a face plant on the edge of a table. My partner had blood all over her face.
A large crowd was forming around her.
Back then we were using Lifepack 5s and I did a quick look. The patient was in coarse V-Fib. I charged the paddes and shocked him while my partner got out the intubation equipment. I held the paddles on his chest to see what rhythm he was in. Just as I started to say it looked like he was in a sinus rhythm, the guy sat up and said, "I don't need any of this stuff, get away from me".
The crowd was awe struck.
I felt like I WAS on TV.
The guy made it to the hospital, had open heart surgery within a couple hours and lived to tell about it. He came by and thanked us.
Moral to the story, if you can get there fast enough, you have a good shot at saving them. This guy went down while we were in the same room as he was.
 
The crowd was awe struck.
I'll bet they were. They would have been even more impressed if they knew how infrequently it works that way.
It's like trying to impress a lay person with your shooting... you may be a master class shooter, but every good guy they've ever seen on TV can draw faster and shoot more accurately with a 2" J-frame. The crowd was impressed because it was "just like TV"- they just don't realize how impressive that really is.
 
I have been in medicine for over 18 years. When I was in the prehospital setting I had only 12 patients who were resucitated and had an obtainable blood pressure on arrival in the ER. All of those 12 had CPR being performed fairly well upon my arrival. In the hospital, the majority of arrests are resucitated. CPR needs to be taught to as many as possible-period. I can also tell you that little things like simply opening the airway correctly of an unconcious patient is lifesaving. I want my spouse to know it, my parents, my babysitter etc. It's really a no brainer!
 
444, in the other extreme, have you ever had a witnessed arrest go rigor on you?

My squad got called in for a witnessed arrest, took 5 minutes to get there and as the medic was tubing, the guy went in to rigor mortis. stiff as a board. The supervisor that came in in the medic car (came as a second unit to assist) said he'd actually seen it before. That was a bit freaky

We later joked that the guy must have REALLY been ready to die. When another member asked what happened i told them the guy turned to stone them blew away as dust in the wind. That was a strange one.
 
No, certainly not a witnessed arrest.

Back in the early years of EMS we worked a lot of patients that we wouldn't work today. There has been a lot of thought given to the idea of providing the family with false hope, with burdening the already distraught family with huge medical bills, and with burdening the health care system with patients that arn't viable. Back then there was always a big deal made of the fact that we were paramedics and could not make a diagnosis. We only treated symtoms. However in the more recent past our EMS protocols have addressed this problem to some extent with a field determination of death protocol. We call it the 4 + 1.
If the patient meets the 4 + 1, we call a coroner and leave the patient where they were found. The 4 part of it are presumtive signs of death: unconscious/unresponsive, fixed dilated pupils, apnia, and pulselessness. The patient must have all four presumtive signs. The patient must also have one conclusive sign of death such as: absense of electrical activity, lividity, rigor mortis, injury incompatiable with life .................................
In addition we also have the latitude of working an arrest for a period of time and if we get no response we can call the hospital and discontinue treatment. We also recognize DNR orders.
Our protocols can be found here: http://www.cchd.org/ems/documents/EMTP_Prtcl_Manual_Mar2002.pdf
There has been a more recent revised additon and the website appearently has not been updated. The prehospital death determination protocol is found on page 20.
 
I thought I would revive (no pun intended) this thread after reading this morning's paper:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Jan-26-Mon-2004/living/22958446.html

Monday, January 26, 2004
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

SAVING LIVES: When Seconds Count

Proponents encourage widespread training and use of special defibrillators

By JOAN WHITELY
REVIEW-JOURNAL
Photos by Cariño Casas


Jack Barlich, 66, of Del Rey Oaks, Calif., was winning at pai gow poker at the MGM Grand one moment. The next, he had dropped his glass of sparkling water and slumped unconscious against his wife.

It was May 1. Barlich was in cardiac arrest. Irene Barlich tells what happened next.

"The dealer was already on the phone (summoning security officers and paramedics). Other bystanders, hotel guests, put him on the ground and started CPR right away."

Within minutes, security officers had jolted Jack's heart with electricity, restoring a heartbeat. Paramedics whisked him away to a local hospital, where he spent two weeks stabilizing enough to be transported to California, for two more weeks of hospitalization.

"They are definitely lifesavers," says Jack, who now knows defibrillators -- devices to electrically shock a heart -- from both ends: as patient and as administering technician. For 30 years he was a firefighter, sometimes responding to medical emergencies.

Retired from that career, he is now mayor of Del Rey Oaks. Several years ago he underwent a triple-bypass heart surgery. Today the Barlichs select their hotels carefully for good medical support services, including availability of AEDs.

AED is an acronym just entering the average American's vocabulary. It stands for automated external defibrillator, the kind of equipment that MGM security officers used on Jack. The electric shock can jump-start a quivering, nonfunctional heart back into a regular rhythm.

A "hug" is what YMCA of Southern Nevada spokesman John Denton likens AEDs to. At both YMCA branches, an AED hangs prominently behind the front desk. Denton says, "It's saying, 'We do care about you this much.' "

Compared to the defibrillators used in hospitals or by highly trained paramedics, AEDs are simplified. The device, not the operator, analyzes a victim's heart state. Then the AED gives instructions -- with voice and written prompts -- on whether to shock, and how to do it.

The devices are crucial because cardiac arrest kills more Americans each year "than cancer, AIDS or other disease state," according to Michael Gioffredi, vice president of Cardiac Science, an AED manufacturer based in California. According to the federal Occupational Safety & Health Administration, cardiac arrest causes 300,000-400,000 U.S. deaths yearly.

Yet few laws compel public places, except for certain types of medical facilities, to have defibrillators. Only about 5 percent of the nation's government buildings -- federal, state and local -- are equipped with AEDs, Gioffredi estimates.

Large Las Vegas gaming resorts are ahead of the national curve in having AEDs ready, say representatives of the Clark County fire department and Dr. David Slattery, education director of the emergency medicine department at University Medical Center.

Some of the landmark medical research proving the usefulness of AEDs was done in Las Vegas casinos. A study published in The New England Journal of Medicine in 2000 looked at AED use by casino security officers in Clark County, Lake Tahoe and Mississippi.

Of cardiac arrest patients who received a shock within three minutes of collapsing, 74 percent survived, the study reported. That compared to a national survival rate of 5 percent for all cardiac-arrest patients.

The amount of time lapse between "drop" and "shock" can make the difference between life and death, numerous experts say. For every minute that passes from drop to shock, one study says, the person's chance of survival drops 10 percent -- making survival a low possibility if 10 minutes pass before AED intervention. Administering CPR, however, can stretch the survivable time between drop and shock.

But nongaming Las Vegas venues are trailing at getting AEDs.

"It definitely saves lives, but it's still a `mystical thing' " to the average person, says Asa Marie Davis, a spokeswoman for the American Red Cross, Southern Nevada chapter. She says it gets comparatively few training requests for AEDs compared to CPR.

Clark County public high schools will soon get on board, because a new state law requires them to have the devices by July 1. Lobbying for the law were families in two well-publicized recent local cases, in which young athletes suffered cardiac arrest during sports, due to previously undetected heart conditions.

One survived, one died. The survivor, 13 at the time, had received CPR by teachers until paramedics arrived, in about five minutes, to defibrillate. Paramedics did not reach the other until about 10 minutes after cardiac arrest.

McCarran International Airport has seven AEDs, for use by airport personnel, who sometimes get to the site of a "sick person" call before paramedics, even though Clark County Fire Department has a station at the airport, according to spokeswoman Hilarie Grey.

"Both of the times I was involved (in using an AED) the individual was already gone. I saw the machine as a tool of comfort for the family," who knew that all measures had been tried to save the deceased person's life, says Sam Torrence, 41, who has worked at McCarran International for two years. As a passenger service rep, Torrence answers emergency calls. In a prior security job at the Bellagio, he also operated an AED and had some "saves."

Shopping malls here have a mixed record. The Boulevard Mall has two AEDs with personnel trained to operate them, according to its marketing director. The Galleria at Sunset mall has no AEDs, a representative said.

Health and fitness centers are largely lagging, too. The three largest local chains -- Gold's Gyms, Las Vegas Athletic Clubs and 24-Hour Fitness -- do not have AEDs, according to spokesmen. The YMCA deployed AEDs a year ago. Club Sport Green Valley, 2100 Olympic Ave. in Henderson, has had a device for two years.

Gold's Gyms do not have AEDs but, spokesman Marcel Kuerzi pointed out, many fire department crews work out at the gyms, which provides an informal level of coverage for medical emergencies.

The Las Vegas Athletic Clubs do not have AEDs, but spokesman Bret FitzGerald questioned the need.

"The average person who works out at our club is already healthier than the average person who goes to a grocery store. If grocery stores don't have them, why should we?" He said his company is awaiting more definitive data on the benefits.

Dale Branks, a paramedic for American Medical Response, is also a board member of Project Heartbeat, which promotes the spread of public-access defibrillators. A former personal fitness trainer who holds a master's degree in exercise physiology, Branks has approached local health clubs on behalf of Project Heartbeat.

Most clubs resist adopting AEDs, but Branks calls it short-sighted. The American College of Sports Medicine and the American Heart Association issued a joint statement in 2002 urging health clubs to get an AED if they: have a membership of 2,500 or more; offer programs for special populations such as the elderly or those with medical conditions; or the paramedic response time will be longer than five minutes.

Health clubs, the statement adds, are finding high growth in new members older than 35. "It is reasonable to presume that the number of members with cardiovascular disease is rising as well," according to the position statement. As more people who are over 55 start working out, Branks calls it the "mainstreaming of senior adults" into gyms.

Health clubs personnel need to know that vigorous exercise is a known potential trigger of sudden cardiac arrest in adults with coronary artery disease, according to Branks. Illinois requires physical-fitness facilities to have AEDs, he points out.

It's hard to predict where sudden cardiac arrests will occur, but the National Center for Early Defibrillation at the University of Pittsburgh says research has identified locations that "seem to have a higher incidence," including: airports, businesses, county jails, golf courses, large industrial sites, homeless shelters, nursing homes, doctors' offices, shopping malls, sports centers and urgent-care centers.

AEDs should be as commonplace in public venues as fire alarms and fire extinguishers, says Luis Rodriguez, a county firefighter-paramedic who is stationed at McCarran.

But he recognizes inhibiting factors, such as cost of the equipment -- $2,000 or more, if only one is purchased -- and the cost of employee training. In cases where an AED is deployed without trained personnel, for any bystander to use, theft and misuse are also risks.

"Just putting the AED out there (without trained operators), may or may not help," Slattery says. "One of the most difficult things is deciding where to put these. . . . But the take-home message is early defibrillation."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top