Buck Snort
Member
Is the 130 gr. HP a sound bullet for deer or should I stick with the 150 gr. bullets?
30-06 and the 130 gr. HP
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Roughneck08
Member
When you have a large selection of premium hunting bullets on the market I would strongly advise against HP ammunition for deer. Cheap 150,160,180 grain corelokt remington soft points is my first choice if you are on a budget. Barnes, nosler ect. use soft point or ballistic tip. Fast to controlled expanding ammunition that retains it weight and doesnt fragment. You don't want a hollow point or frangible ammuntion on deer. They have thicker bones then varmints. If you hit a deer in the shoulder it could not penetrate thoroughly. Premium SP ammo is what you want. Just from my personal experience and as well as others.
Regards
Regards
kyle1974
Member
stick to 150 grain bullets....
JimKirk
Member
The only HP I would shoot at deer would be the 165 grain Gameking HPBT, it is made for deer sized game.
http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=bc&bullettype=0
Jimmy K
http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=bc&bullettype=0
Jimmy K
susquehannaslim
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30-06, and deer,you owe it to the deer to make a clean kill,dont use any bullets less than 150gr. save the 130s for groundhog,yotes,and the like.
Ralph Walker, of Walker Arms in Selma Alabama wrote an ariticle about the use of 130 HP’s in the 30-06.
In his neck of the woods deer average 120 lbs. He also shot around 10 deer a year. With 150 grain and up bullets he had deer run off and get lost in the dusk, till found the next morning.
He tried 130’s and wrote about the excellent performance he was getting. Knocked the deer flat.
I used a 130 SP in a 30-06. Hit a deer right on the hip joint. It shattered the bone throughout the leg, hamburgered the meat in that limb. It did take a shot through the neck to finish the deer, but based on the damage I saw in the leg, 130’s going 3100 fps are a lot more deadly than they are given credit.
You know, the 270 made its name with 130’s at 3000 fps. Why then does the shooting community distain 130’s in the 30-06 going 3100 fps?
In his neck of the woods deer average 120 lbs. He also shot around 10 deer a year. With 150 grain and up bullets he had deer run off and get lost in the dusk, till found the next morning.
He tried 130’s and wrote about the excellent performance he was getting. Knocked the deer flat.
I used a 130 SP in a 30-06. Hit a deer right on the hip joint. It shattered the bone throughout the leg, hamburgered the meat in that limb. It did take a shot through the neck to finish the deer, but based on the damage I saw in the leg, 130’s going 3100 fps are a lot more deadly than they are given credit.
You know, the 270 made its name with 130’s at 3000 fps. Why then does the shooting community distain 130’s in the 30-06 going 3100 fps?
150 -165 grain. You want that bullet going as slow as possible in the 30-06 for deer so that it gets adequate expansion and penetration. 130 grains are going a bit too fast than needed for the 30-06 unless you are gonna shoot several hundred yards. But within 200 yards, stick with the heavier bullets.
Captcurt
Member
I gotta go with the majority. I tried the 130s years ago. Nearly took the head off of a little buck. I hit it in the neck just below the jaw and you could turn his head all the way around. A good 150 or 165 gr Accubond works wonders.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
The drawback to the lighter bullets, generally, is that if you take an angling shot through the body instead of a neck or cross-body shot, the bullet might not get into the heart/lung area. Blowup or deflection.
I figure that if I'm just meat hunting in an area where deer are plentiful, I can be picky about what sort of shot I take and IMO the particular bullet doesn't really matter. But if I'm looking for a particular buck, and jump a really nice trophy buck, I want all the guarantees I can get. Kill, not wound...
I figure that if I'm just meat hunting in an area where deer are plentiful, I can be picky about what sort of shot I take and IMO the particular bullet doesn't really matter. But if I'm looking for a particular buck, and jump a really nice trophy buck, I want all the guarantees I can get. Kill, not wound...
kyle1974
Member
it's about the sectional density of a given round.
grain size alone isn't the only facotr in considering an effective round.
the sectional density fo a 130 grain round out of 270 isn't the same as a 130 grain out of a 30 caliber.
in addition, hollowpoints are more frangible (as stated above), if you happen to shatter enough of the shoulder blade, you have a dead deer. If you don't, you have a wounded deer, with no exit hole, and no blood trail, and a very low likelyhood of ever finding it.
I think people want to shoot smaller bullets because they're faster, and "flatter shooting", not considering every other factor that makes a bullet BETTER... not just faster.
grain size alone isn't the only facotr in considering an effective round.
the sectional density fo a 130 grain round out of 270 isn't the same as a 130 grain out of a 30 caliber.
in addition, hollowpoints are more frangible (as stated above), if you happen to shatter enough of the shoulder blade, you have a dead deer. If you don't, you have a wounded deer, with no exit hole, and no blood trail, and a very low likelyhood of ever finding it.
I think people want to shoot smaller bullets because they're faster, and "flatter shooting", not considering every other factor that makes a bullet BETTER... not just faster.
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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130g HP no, 130g SP sure. As stated above, the HP is just too apt to "blow up" when encountering bone and will just injure a deer. In a perfect setting with a perfect shot at a dead broadside deer where you can hit in the lungs without hitting the shoulder, a HP would be ok. But seriously, how many perfect shots does one get in the real world? They are few and far between. The 130g SP from Hornady, on the other hand, will perform very well on deer sized game. But in all reality, I would stick with 150g or better just for the "feel good insurance"
Buck Snort
Member
I got to looking in my reloading manual and I see the 257 Robts. +P launches a 115 gr. bullet at almost 2900 fps. I know a LOT of deer have been taken with the standard load in that gun. I find it hard to believe the 130 gr. bullet at 3000 fps from the '06 would not be an effective deer cartridge. Sure, the SD advantage goes to the Robts. but geeze s 130 gr. bullet @ 3000 fps is certainly nothing to sneeze at! Am I grabbing at straws here?
It's not a question of velocity or energy; it's a question of bullet performance. If you slip a fast frangible bullet between the ribs it can produce spectacular kills. It looks like the deer swallowed a bomb because that's more or less what happened.
The problem is if you hit a rib and the bullet does what it was designed to do: blow up. Then you get a shallow surface wound and the deer runs away to die slowly.
150 grain Power points, Corelokts, Powershoks, etc are designed to work on deer and do it very well. Use a bullet that expands and exits and you'll be glad you did.
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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No buck you aren't, the difference here is Hollow Point Verses Soft Point. With the Sectional density variable, at 3000fps a HP is not going to penetrate very well. The OP was about the 130g HP which, to me and most others in the field, is a very poor choice when given the many other choices one has.
Buck Snort
Member
Your right about that. The SP would be a better choice.
Supertac45
Member
I wouldn't reccommend a H.P. A 130 Grain Nosler is just fine, but I'm not sure they make it in .30 caliber. There are others though.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
It's more than just hollow-point vs. soft-point. You must consider bullet jacket design, among other things. Thickness, for instance.
Some bullets are designed to come apart quickly. Others are designed for what is called "controlled expansion".
As well, just relying on the weight is not considering the other factors.
In general, for cartridges of larger diameter than .223, the lighter bullets are designed more for varminting than for deer or elk.
The .223 began as a varmint diameter, from the Hornet on up to the Swift. Only in the last dozen or so years has the technology progressed into bullets suitable for deer.
Some bullets are designed to come apart quickly. Others are designed for what is called "controlled expansion".
As well, just relying on the weight is not considering the other factors.
In general, for cartridges of larger diameter than .223, the lighter bullets are designed more for varminting than for deer or elk.
The .223 began as a varmint diameter, from the Hornet on up to the Swift. Only in the last dozen or so years has the technology progressed into bullets suitable for deer.
Buck Snort
Member
Maybe the best thing for me to do is to contact bullet manufacturers and see what they recommend. I agree, bullet design is an important part of the equation.
Captcurt
Member
MHO in a Nutshell.
Buck,
I also wanted to push the envelope when I first started hunting. I've had maxed out loads ranging from 110 gr. SP for 270 win to 130gr SP in 308 Norma Mag. Here is what I have come with in the last 45 years.
Although your muzzel velocity is much higher with the light bullets they tend to slow down faster when they get downrange, say 300-400yds. And since they are lighter in weight, they don't have the remaining energy of a heavier bullet. If you take a 130gr 30cal with a 200 sightin and start it at 3200 fps your talking about a 9.1 inch drop at 400 yards. A 165gr started at 3000 will have a drop of 9.5 inches at the same distance. If you can hold your sights within .4 inch at 400 yards you are a much better shot than I. Not only does the heavy bullet hold up well at longer range, it is less affected by wind and hits with more energy. So you can see that you really are not gaining any advantage by going to the lighter bullet. In fact, you are handicapping yourself by limiting the penetration of the bullet once it hits the target animal.
If you can pick your shots and make them, the light bullets will work. They'll leave a mess and ruin alot of meat, but they will work. However, you cannot always wait for the perfect shot. If I have a monster whitetail in thick brush and he is one step away from being out of site, I want a well constructed controlled expansion bullet with enough sectional density to hit him in the arse and exit his brisket. Then it is a done deal.
Buck,
I also wanted to push the envelope when I first started hunting. I've had maxed out loads ranging from 110 gr. SP for 270 win to 130gr SP in 308 Norma Mag. Here is what I have come with in the last 45 years.
Although your muzzel velocity is much higher with the light bullets they tend to slow down faster when they get downrange, say 300-400yds. And since they are lighter in weight, they don't have the remaining energy of a heavier bullet. If you take a 130gr 30cal with a 200 sightin and start it at 3200 fps your talking about a 9.1 inch drop at 400 yards. A 165gr started at 3000 will have a drop of 9.5 inches at the same distance. If you can hold your sights within .4 inch at 400 yards you are a much better shot than I. Not only does the heavy bullet hold up well at longer range, it is less affected by wind and hits with more energy. So you can see that you really are not gaining any advantage by going to the lighter bullet. In fact, you are handicapping yourself by limiting the penetration of the bullet once it hits the target animal.
If you can pick your shots and make them, the light bullets will work. They'll leave a mess and ruin alot of meat, but they will work. However, you cannot always wait for the perfect shot. If I have a monster whitetail in thick brush and he is one step away from being out of site, I want a well constructed controlled expansion bullet with enough sectional density to hit him in the arse and exit his brisket. Then it is a done deal.
CaptCurt said it right. Go with the biggest bullet you can get away with!!! In your case a 150 grain is "kinda light," the 165 grain is "ideal" and the 180 grain is "kinda heavy," but all three will work fine for deer. By the way, I saw what those 30-06 150 grain hornady interlocks did to a 200 lb whitetail at 50 yards, and there is no way I would use anything else.
Biggest deer I shot I was using a 125 grain remington. The deer was about 90 yards away. The bullet hit the shoulder and exploded. The damage to the deer was quite massive, almost 10 inches of hamburger meet. The deer did drop in its track. I normally use this light weight round for coyote and such but the deer was close and 11 points was to much for me to pass up.
Captcurt
Member
I feel the same way about my 165gr Accubond. I hit a doe on the shoulder. When I skinned it there was an 8" bruise around the ENTRANCE hole! I must confess though, it was out of a 300 WSM.
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