30-06 w/ 180 grain bullet . . . conflicting data.

[der Teufel]

I'm gearing up to reload some 30-06 rounds for a hunting buddy. The plan is to use Hornady 180 BTSP. We hunt hogs almost exclusively, so we don't need premium bullets. I want to use IMR4350 powder because I have it available.

When I look at my Speer Reloading Manual number 11 I see suggested loads as follows:

Wt. in Grains ------Muzzle Vel.

--------57.0----------2794---------- MAX LOAD
--------55.0----------2699
--------53.0----------2587

This looks fine, and my thought was (is?) to work up to the middle load and see how that performs in his rifle.

HOWEVER, as a sanity check I looked at http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_cartridge_reloading_data.htm where I see the following information:

180 grain Hornady SP InterLock bullet, 54.5 grains IMR 4350 powder, Federal 210 primer, Hornady brass. MV 2700 fps in 23.75" barrel. MAXIMUM LOAD! (Based on the Hornady Handbook, Sixth Edition.)

This indicates the max load for a 30-06 using IMR4350 is less than the 'middle' load stated in the Speer manual. What gives? Who do I believe?

Lacking any additional info I'll reduce the load to something under 54 grains, but I hate it when published info is contradictory. Any comments or other data from forum members?

Thanks!

 

[T Bran]

Do the Interloc and btsp bullets have the same profile and bearing surface. This is why I use as many sources as possible and do a bit of commonsence averaging.
In this case I would try to get some info directly from Hornandy as it is their product. If not available in your powder of choice take the lowest data and work up slowly as you would with a mystery bullet.
Hope this helps.

 

[Craigman]

Newer Hornady books are always low. from say, 4th on up.

Try to use printed data or powder manufacturer website data if possible.... before chuckhawks...or some random sites

Most load books that have been around a while even contradict themselves over time. Pressure reading is more accurate these days and lawyers are more influencing as well

 

[rcmodel]

Speer bullets are not Hornady bullets, so the data for them is different.
The Hornady bullets are usually secant ogive shape, and have more bearing surface then Speers spitzer shape.

I'd believe the data using the same bullet you are using.

rc

 

[murf]

the speer #11 manual came out in 1987. suggest you update your manual. powders and bullets have changed a lot in the past 25 years.

murf

 

[RainDodger]

Remember also.. that Chuck Hawks guy is just another guy like the rest of us... because his site said the data was taken from a given source, it doesn't mean that it actually was, or that when it was taken, it was accurately copied. You never know.... just sayin'

 

[rg1]

Hornady 8th Edition says 54.5 grains of IMR 4350 is maximum and gets 2700fps . That's in a 23 3/4" Win model 70 using Hornady brass and Fed 210 primers. Overall length tested was 3.245". I too have seen data higher than 54.5 but all with different bullets. Nosler data stops at 55 grains max with their 180 gr. Lyman's and Sierra's manual with 180 Sierra's stops at 56 grains using Win cases and primers. I've shot 180 Sierra's with 54 grains and it shot very well using RP cases and RP 9 1/2 primers. Loading for a friends rifle and possibly with different components I'd be careful going above 54.5 grains.

 

[ranger335v]

"This indicates the max load for a 30-06 using IMR4350 is less than the 'middle' load stated in the Speer manual. What gives? Who do I believe? "

Remember that line in all manuals that say, in effect, "Start low and slowly work up to max unless you encounter excess pressure signs earlier?" That means in the final analysis we all have to "believe" ourselves.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The Hodgdon load data site lists a charge weight range for IMR4350 and a 180gr Sierra SPBT bullet of 53.0gr to 56.5gr. The 56.5 charge is listed as compressed, generates a velocity of 2752fps and the pressure is listed at 57,200 PSI. I usually trust the bullet manufacturer closely followed by the powder company for accurate data.

That data is very close to the Speer data but then again, Speer only copies their data from the powder company's data. Like said above, Chuck Hawkins is just a guy who put data on his site. I wouldn't change my loads because of his site.

 

[gamestalker]

IMR-4350 is a pretty slow burning powder first of all. So as long as you follow safe reloading practices by not starting the charge up above the minimum range you won't have any issues. And Hornady data is on the conservative side. But as already emtioned, different bullets do produce difference pressures, and pressure curves as well.

THE FOLLOWING DATA EXCEEDS PUBLISHED MAXIMUMS!
Back a long time ago when I first started reloading I was working with the 30-06 and .270 win using IMR-4350. An old fellow who was a BR shooter showed me what happens when you scoop IMR-4350 using the cartridge and fill it, thus creating a tightly compressed charge. That powder is slow enough burning that for those cartridges, it didn't gain pressure at the compressed charge, but in fact dropped off quite a bit. I'm not advocating trying this, but only citing an example of how slow burning IMR-4350 is.

GS

 

[readyeddy]

I use the max load from the Sierra manual using 55.3 grains of IMR 4350, Sierra SPBT 180 grain, 3.25 OAL. Speed averages 2675 fps from my 22" barrel.

 

[JLDickmon]

We were just discussing the differences in "max" loads on the .44Mag 300gr thread yesterday..

One quote from Alliant #4 said I had about a six grain overcharge, the current Alliant manual online lists it a lot closer to what I'm actually using.

Key take-away?
Consult multiple sources, then start low and work up.

 

[Hangingrock]

For more decades than I care to remember I’ve used 57.0grs of IMR-4350 with various 180gr bullets. Just because I’ve done it doesn’t mean I’m right and the current data is wrong. But when I started loading 57.0grs of IMR-4350 was recommended by DuPont in their reloading data.Current data takes into consideration the production span for firearms that the cartridge that would be employed in (106yrs) and the current industry accepted standards and methodology of pressure measurement.

None the less in a modern firearm such as a Remington 700 or comparable quality rifle I see no problem going up to 57grs of IMR-4350 but that’s me and not you. I’ll concede I could be wrong. In my experience the load has not been problematic and exceptionally accurate in two different Remington M700 rifles and a Winchester M70 rifle.

 

[jmr40]

Use new data. Sometimes minor changes in powder cannot be helped and data printed in 1987 may be much different with powder produced in 2012. All loading guides suggest you always use the most recent data because of this.

Get a chronograph, start low and work up. If a suggesed load calls for 2700 fps with 55 gr of powder and you hit 2700 fps at 53.5 gr of powder, that is the max load in your gun. If you get to 55 gr of powder and are only getting 2600 fps in your gun, then you are not yet at a max load in your rifle.

All rifles are different. The ammo Hawks used in his gun could be very different in your gun.

http://hodgdon.com/

I like to use online data because it is most likely the most current. This shows 56.6 as a max load with a Sierra 180 gr bullet at 2752 fps. Using a Hornady bullet will give slightly different results, but if you start low, and work up watching chronograph speeds you will be fine.

 

[ranger335v]

"Key take-away? Consult multiple sources, then start low and work up. "

Seems reasonable. But.. "work up" to what; the lowest book or the highest book? Or average them?

If we averaged them and one is over safe limits then it could reduce the hazard of an overload but not prevent it, especially so if the others are actually at max. On the other hand, IF we actually start low and work towards book max while keeping watch for over pressure signs then we will get all the info we need from any ONE manual. IMHO; I may be wrong but I doubt it.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Look closely at the component match that Speer is using to generate their data against what the other sources are using.
It's usually the component match that causes the percieved discrepancies in the data.

I use 55.0gr with a Nosler 180gr B.T. or Partition. It gets 2,785fps from my 24" bbl. But, I'm using Winchester cases, Federal M210 primers, and seating to 3.325" oal. Winchester cases have larger internal capacity than most other makes (except Norma). And the Federal 210 is almost as "hot" as the CCI/Speer Magnum large rifle primer.

Speer's data (#14) is reasonable in my experience with the .30/06 for over 35yrs of shooting it. Their velocities are however on the low side given that they are using the same rifle/action for the data they used in the #9 manual I bought in 1976.....
Think the bore might be just a tad worn ????? And only 22" long.

Even a 22" Savage Mod110LH I had got better velocities than the Speer data. But, 54.0gr WAS maximum for THAT gun...... It had a profoundly short throat. Ammo for my MkX Mauser and Colt Light-Rifle would NOT chamber unless re-seated deaper to 3.250" max oal.....

So, with data always consider the source and component(s) used.....

 

[ranger335v]

"It's usually the component match that causes the percieved discrepancies in the data."

Again, that sounds reasonable and is true to a point but it's only a minor aspect. The "component" change with the greatest potential for different effects is the gun used and we can't avoid that one no matter how precisely we match everything else.

Thus, "Start low and ..." is the ONLY thing we can rely on.

 

[der Teufel]

A bunch of good information . . .

Thanks to all who have responded. The quality of the comments has, as usual for this forum, been excellent.

My original goal was to simply load up some moderate power loads for my buddy's 30-06, without going to a lot of trouble. I think what I'll do now is go ahead and make several different loads, probably starting with 53 grains of IMR4350 and going up in half-grain increments to 55 grains and have him shoot them in his rifle. We'll check the brass each time and look for any problems.

The overall goal in this case is not to achieve the best accuracy, after all we're just shooting hogs at ranges of 50 - 100 yards. The bullet holes don't have to be touching. Our only purpose of reloading is economy, but safety has to be the overriding consideration.

Thanks again to all who supplied comments! — dT
--

 

[kelbro]

Good plan. Start where you were going to start and work up in small increments until you find accuracy. 100 or 200 fps difference isn't going to make it kill any better or worse with a 180gr bullet.

 

[BBDartCA]

Good choice with IMR4350. I've found this to be the best powder with a variety of 180g bullets at 54.6g with Winchester mag primers. IMR4831 being a close second. If you are looking for economy, find some 150g M2 surplus bullets on line.