30-30 cartidge for elk?

[Northslope Nimrod]

Put aside the question of whether a 30-30 is sufficient for elk. What is the best round out there for the job? I will buy 170 grain but what manufacturer is claiming the highest muzzle velocity? Is Nosler Partition the way to go? Can you load them any better or have the manufacturers topped out the capabilities of the 30-30 cartridge? I was wondering if they under powered them because there are a lot of OLD 30-30's out there. (Similar to the 30-06)

 

[mete]

I would never use a 30-30 for elk. Since it's a big animal the heavier 170 gr is better and limit the range to 100 yds max.

 

[buzz meeks]

I know tons of people here in Montana who used a 30-30 in their youth to take their first few elk. I know guys who still elk hunt with the 30-30. Respect its range, take high percentage shots and you'll do fine.

The Nosler is probably as good as it gets but I wonder if a premium is even necessary given the 30-30's modest velocities.

No, the 30-30 cannot really be pushed much faster. Against better advice I have tried and started getting negative results almost immediately- short brass life, loose primer pockets and spiky velocities. Older rifles are a small part of the picture but several of the major reloading manuals cite the case itself as the limiting factor.

 

[Sunray]

"...Similar to the 30-06..." Similar to the .45-70. Not the .30-06.
"...What is the best round out there for the job?..." In a lever action or any action?
"...the highest muzzle velocity?..." Doesn't matter if your rifle won't shoot them accurately.
"...Similar to the 30-06..." Similar to the .45-70, not the .30-06. Any rifle that's safe to shoot .30-06 is just fine shooting factory ammo. Low S/N 1903's being the exception.
Personally, if a .30-30 was what I had, I wouldn't think twice about hunting elk with it. Up here, moose are regularly killed with a .30-30. It's not the best choice, but neither is a .338 Mag. Shot placement, like every other cartridge, is paramount.
I have data for a 190 grain jacketed bullet if you want it. Shoot me an e-mail. [email protected]

 

[killzone]

30-30 win

It would be a risky shot which I have taken before. If you hit the elk In the nack area 30-30 does a good job becauce the bullet will stay there. lots of blood to track and my experetiance was, it was about 4 min for it to go down. ! have fun

 

[Harve Curry]

I'd use 30-30 if that's what I had. Indians around here use plain old Winchester 94's in 30-30.
Bow hunters use arrows and you can't limit yourself much more then that.
You just have to limit your range to the weapon, your ability, and shot placement.

 

[Mannlicher]

I have not taken Elk with a 30-30, but I have taken quite a few Whitetails and hogs.
My load of choice is a 170 grain Speer FP over 34.5 grains of IMR4320. In my Savage 170 Pump, that gives me 2200 fps. If the hunter stays within a reasonable range, there is no doubt in my mind that load would take an Elk.

 

[mustanger98]

buzz meeks wrote:

I know tons of people here in Montana who used a 30-30 in their youth to take their first few elk. I know guys who still elk hunt with the 30-30. Respect its range, take high percentage shots and you'll do fine.

No, the 30-30 cannot really be pushed much faster. Against better advice I have tried and started getting negative results almost immediately- short brass life, loose primer pockets and spiky velocities. Older rifles are a small part of the picture but several of the major reloading manuals cite the case itself as the limiting factor.

Another factor I've read of limiting the .30-30's velocity is the nature of the Winchester '94 action. John M. Browning, designing a lighter more compact rifle, designed in a rear bar that rides up behind the bolt and locks it in place when the action is closed. That keep too hot a load from driving the bolt back in the shooter's face. Thing is, too hot a load is likely to lock the action up tight. Because of this, they advise against "hotrodding" the .30-30 cartridge. Take this factor in view of the first part of the quote about respecting the rifle's range. Taking the high percentage shots, if you punch an elk's upper lungs with a 170gr SP, he's gonna go down because the lungs are gonna fill up with blood and the animal will shortly die of shock and suffocation. An upper-lung/spinal shot and the elk should be down in its tracks just like a deer.

Sunray wrote:

"...Similar to the 30-06..." Similar to the .45-70, not the .30-06. Any rifle that's safe to shoot .30-06 is just fine shooting factory ammo. Low S/N 1903's being the exception.

A lot of folks list Garands as unsafe with a lot of factory '06 hunting ammo too, being that the gas system was design to work with a certain pressure curve. To slow a powder, loaded with bolt guns in mind, will blow up an M1, as will too slow a powder with too heavy a bullet (over 180gr).

Personally, if a .30-30 was what I had, I wouldn't think twice about hunting elk with it. Up here, moose are regularly killed with a .30-30. It's not the best choice, but neither is a .338 Mag. Shot placement, like every other cartridge, is paramount.

This goes back to something I read where a hunting/gun writer opined that any cartridge that makes a lightweight rifle kick harder is going to do the deer (or insert other animal here) a big favor by making us flinch and pull of target. To which I add, it'll either do the deer a big favor by making us miss, or it'll do the deer a severe disservice by wounding/crippling. We all have to pick the rifle/ammo that works best for the individual and not get caught up in a macho trip.

 

[rick_reno]

I'm a proponent using what you've got. I know a couple of people here in Idaho that hunt elk and deer with 30-30's. They work.

 

[W Turner]

I think .30-30 is just big enough for elk kinda like the .243 is just big enough for whitetail. Can they do the job? Sure,.... if you do your part. I would look at using a Marlin and maybe handloading or having it re-chambered in .30-30 AI. A littel more power and it can still use .30-30 win. ammo.


Just an idea.

W

 

[mustanger98]

Thing about those Ackley Improved rifles- fire a regular .30-30 in an Ackley Improved chamber and you'll have a fireformed .30-30 Ackley Improved case ready to handload.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Thing about those Ackley Improved rifles- fire a regular .30-30 in an Ackley Improved chamber and you'll have a fireformed .30-30 Ackley Improved case ready to handload.

Ackley Improved cartridges may sometimes be justified by their sharper shoulder producing more precise headspace. But the .30-30 headspaces on its rim. If you follow the rule of 4 (a 4% increase in case volume gives you a 1% increase in velocity) an AI .30-30 would yield about 33fps additional velocity.

Of course people who like wildcats also tend to hot rod them, but that's not advisable in a Model 94 Winchester.

 

[mustanger98]

But the .30-30 headspaces on its rim.

I didn't know that.

If you follow the rule of 4 (a 4% increase in case volume gives you a 1% increase in velocity) an AI .30-30 would yield about 33fps additional velocity.

I figure if I have a .30-30Win. handload running 2000-2200fps with a 150gr Hornady SP, I don't really need 33fps extra. If I need extra velocity, I can go to the Garand or .243Win.

Of course people who like wildcats also tend to hot rod them, but that's not advisable in a Model 94 Winchester.

As in my previous post. The additional pressure is likely to give the user a 6lb club in place of a working rifle.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I forget the exact recipie but we use a 170 gr Speer Flat nose bullet to try and match the Federal factory load of 2200 fps. As I recall we got very very close to that.

It's not 'perfect' for elk, but it will do the job.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

After looking over this thread, I have to say that if I lived in elk country, and could step out my back door and go hunting, a .30-30 might be okay. But if I'm going to buy an out-of-state license, drive a thousand miles, and pay all the other expenses associated with elk hunting, I might as well have a dedicated elk rifle to go with it.

On the other hand, if I could hunt elk out my back door -- I'd have a dedicated elk rifle anyway.

 

[HSMITH]

Countless numbers of elk have been harvested with a 30-30. It is adequate for the job and not 'marginal' as many would have you believe. There was a time when the 30-30 was state of the art, and everyone wanted to 'upgrade' to the powerful 30-30. Now with 300 superultramegamassivemagnums being the rage people think the 30-30 is a pop-gun, it just isn't so.

Keep your shots close, 150 yards or less. Stay with broadside or quartering away shots, stay away from big bones. 30-30's have put thousands of tons of meat on the table, and continue to do so.

 

[garrett1955]

first deer i shot was with my .32 spcl. i shot 2 whitetail deer with it. neither of them ran more that 40 yds. the one went ten feet and dropped. these were both heart shots. the white tail is by far not the size as an elk, but i think a 30-30 should do the job as long as the shots arent to far away. good luck man...

 

[22-rimfire]

I think you need to respect the game animal or quarry that you are after. The 30-30 is too small for any elk shot over 50 yards and is marginal for any shot. I don't care what the old timers say or do. Afterall, many a whitetail has been killed with a 22LR. It is just not the caliber you would choose unless it was a survival sitution, in which case, you use what ya got.

 

[EVIL5LITER]

I think you need to respect the game animal or quarry that you are after. The 30-30 is too small for any elk shot over 50 yards and is marginal for any shot. I don't care what the old timers say or do. Afterall, many a whitetail has been killed with a 22LR. It is just not the caliber you would choose unless it was a survival sitution, in which case, you use what ya got.

I agree, you should use no less than a .577 T-rex for a Whitetail deer. Elk you need at least a 20mm.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I agree, you should use no less than a .577 T-rex for a Whitetail deer. Elk you need at least a 20mm.

I have used a 75mm pack howitzer, but I tend to think of that as minimal.

Actually, given a choice, I'd go with at least a .30-06 for elk. No real reason to settle for less.

 

[EVIL5LITER]

I agree, but the .30-30 is a proven North American game getter.

You shouldn't have to use a round that will literally explode inside of the chest cavity to makeup for your lack of skills.

If you have to use a .50 caliber Barrett to hunt Elk with because you can't get within 800 yards of them or because you have no idea what shot placement is, you don't need to be hunting.

A .30-06 would be a better, but that doesn't mean you can't get the job done with the .30 WCF.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I agree, but the .30-30 is a proven North American game getter.

From the Hodgedon manual, 26th edition:

The .30-30 has probably killed more deer than any other cartridge. And it has probably wounded and lost more deer than any other cartridge. But hunters and not the .30-30 cartridge must be given the credit for one and blamed for the other.

The .30-30 in its place is a fine cartridge. Iv'e killed plenty of deer with it, often simply carrying it in a saddle boot while checking cattle during deer season.

But I don't use it for elk -- why should I? I have other rifles that will do the job better.

You shouldn't have to use a round that will literally explode inside of the chest cavity to makeup for your lack of skills.

How is putting a round in the chest indicative of lack of skill? My experience is that putting one in the boiler room is what you're trying to do.

However, if you have to take a longer shot, or a raking shot, the added range and penetration of a 180 grain Nosler PJ at 2800fps is certainly a welcome advantage.

 

[EVIL5LITER]

Vern,
I'm not arguing with you at all.

More to the point, I'm thumbing my nose at the guys who feel they have to use a .375 H&H as a minimum for Elk, and they feel more comfortable with a .460 Weatherby.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

More to the point, I'm thumbing my nose at the guys who feel they have to use a .375 H&H as a minimum for Elk, and they feel more comfortable with a .460 Weatherby.

Find a guy who's more comfortable with a .460 Weatherby, and the odds are you've found a guy who's never fired a .460 Weatherby.

 

[mustanger98]

Find a guy who's more comfortable with a .460 Weatherby, and the odds are you've found a guy who's never fired a .460 Weatherby.

That's what I thought. Kinda reminds me of the video of the guy shooting a .577 T-Rex, getting thrown across the room by it, and screaming something in Arabic.

Like I said in a previous post, any cartridge that makes a lightweight rifle kick harder causes us to flinch and miss, either wounding/crippling the animal, or causing a clean miss. Either result won't be what we were hoping for.

No, I think .30WCF, .32Win.Spl., .35Rem., .30-06Springfield, 8x57Mauser, and them will do just fine for a dedicated hunter. If somebody has a prefered rifle in a heavier caliber they're comfortable with and knows how to use it, I'd say go for it. But I've heard about way too many guys who shoot a .338WinMag trying to be macho and sitting there flinching to be real big on the principle.