30/30 for deer this year?

[VietVet]

Savage 340

My Marlin 336 .30-30 was stolen a few years ago, and I have never replaced it with any rifle. Rifleless right now, but (when I finish this bathroom project on my house!) I hope to remedy that soon. So, I am shopping. Found a Savage 340 .30-30 on Gunbroker, and very interested in that gun. I didn't even know the .30-30 was made in a bolt action. I have been reading about guns/calibers/balistics, etc. about all my life, and have pretty much decided on the good ole thuty-thuty (as Jack O'Connor called it in an Outdoor Life article about 45 years ago). Check out Jim Carmichael's article this month about Point Blank Zero; it might change some thinking about some calibers.

Even though I love the looks of the Marlin, I just don't like a lever action so much. I really want a bolt action, but am not too keen on anything but the .30-30. Mainly for DECIBEL reasons. Might sound strange, but I was just with friends sighting in various calibers, and the .30-30 sounded mighty sweet after enduring the BLASTS from their .30-06s, .270s, etc. I hunt in the southeast, and will not be shooting beyond about 200 yards, maximum. Okay, any suggestions regarding the Savage 340? Will it take a scope okay?

Thanks.

 

[MrDig]

I have long maintained the the 30-30 is a great round for Deer hunting in the heavy woods. Northern MN has few shots out over 200 yards. Many deer are taken at less than 50. Love my Marlin 336. But be careful with the older ones. They aint called Widow Makers for nothin'. This is due to the lack of a hammer block safety. Mine is old enough not to have one and it can't be retrofit. As Stringent as I am about gun safety I put a round through my roof when I first bought this Gun. Geez, Ten years later I still feel embarrased about that.

 

[Byron]

Vietvet,The 340 had a good reputation.It took a special mount though. Remington made the 788 bolt action in 30-30 once. Many years ago, Savage made a pump 30-30.
When were you in Nam and what unit? Byron D co,3/8th Inf,4th Inf Div 68-69;mos 11B

 

[Preacherman]

Hornady has some fun new loads for the .30-30, among other lever-action cartridges. See this thread in the Rifle forum for more details. These new rounds seem to lift performance significantly.

 

[rick_reno]

I'll probably take mine out this weekend; in the dense timber we have it's a great round.

 

[VietVet]

340, .30-30

Byron,

I was there (Nam) '69-70; Navy-boats, 'nuff about that.

I also read that Remington (I think) made a .30-30 in bold action at one time, but I haven't been able to find one of those. The hole through the roof guy mentioned one reason I am not so fond of the lever actions, although the newer ones are probably a little safer. I just do not like the hammer so much, that's really all. It's not so much a matter of the lever action itself, I much prefer a thumb operated safety over the hammer. I noticed 'tang98 got a 340 from Gunbroker with a scope. It looks nice in his photo with the scope mounted, but what happened to the stock? Looks bleached out to me. Anyway, I am surely needing a good rifle, and have pretty much decided on the Savage 340 in .30-30, if I can find a good one at right price. Sure wish they still made those. I might settle for the Marlin 336 like I had before; I bought it in 1967, and as I mentioned, it was stolen a few years ago. Definitely need to replace it. Plenty of shotguns and a couple of .22s, but just need a good deer rifle I can be happy with. Glad I found this forum; thanks guys.

 

[mustanger98]

VietVet, About my 340... I got it on Gunbroker.com, too. The stock, from what some of my online buddies told me, as well as what one of my Daddy's co-workers told him, some 340 stocks are light wood like that. I've thought about darkening it with Minwax Walnut stain, but haven't decided yet.

I read Jim Carmicheal's article on PBZ. I also read Layne Simpson's article on handloading the .30-30 with spitzers. Spitzers will have to be single-loaded because they're too long for the magazine, but I shot some 147 and 165 grainers in mine this last weekend. They did 2-3" at 50-100yds in rough testing. Good enough for deer to 100yds, but not quite as tight as I'd like yet- loads can always be tweaked. Layne Simpson said spitzer handloads make a .30-30 a 300yd deer getter. Just a matter of further testing though as this rifle appears quite promising. If Layne Simpson's spitzer handloads are dead on at 300yds, I wonder what their PBZ is. It's probably a bit further.

The scope mount on mine is one of those that screws to the side of the receiver. It works quite well on the 340, IMO.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Since you brought up handloading, you might try looking at the profile of the bullets your'e thinking of loading. Some bullets have a shorter nose than others of the same weight, and these bullets will make a shorter OAL with the base of the bullet the same depth below the case mouth.

You can also seat bullets a tad deeper than usual -- but work up such loads from the suggested starting load, since the deeper seated bullet can raise pressures.

 

[Roadkill]

I'm definitely using a Marlin 336 30-30. Accurate, very easy to handle in the woods and in a climbing stand, have dropped several large deer dead with one shot. Next week it will be used very frequently.

rk

 

[VietVet]

Got the Marlin 336W 30-30 today!

Well, I could not stand it any more. I just came home with a new 336C .30-30. Got 10% off because it was a display model, so had enough to buy two boxes of Silvertips 150g. Hope to sight it in soon, didn't get a scope yet; any recommendations for a good scope?

Mustanger98, I like your Savage 340 a lot, and really want that gun too, but in the process of getting registered for buying at Gunbroker. I'll see how it goes. The 340s there seem to be pretty good. Probably just have to stay with my Marlin now though. I needed it for hunting this Saturday. I also live in GA, near Augusta. Killed my first buck, nice 8 pointer first day of 1966 season with my Dad's Browning Sweet 16 using a rifled slug; about 45 yard lucky shot right through the heart. Last Saturday was the exact 39th anniversary of that day, November 5, 1966. Whew, what a day it was. Back then in Georgia, there were hardly any deer at all. I was the only person around these parts that I knew of who deer hunted. Man, have things changed! Plenty of deer now, and hunters, but still some great places to hunt.

Okay, enough reminiscing about those days. I could go on and on, but that's what hunt camps are for, as long as the buddies tolerate it (I'm careful!). Man, how blessed we are! Can own, still buy guns, and use them to hunt. Great...

 

[VietVet]

Check this site...

I forgot to include this about Hornady's new 30-30 ammo:

http://hornady.primediaoutdoors.com/HDstory1.html

Now, this just might add something to us 30-30 shooters. I am still, however, very conservative about taking long shots. Just not worth it to me to mangle or wound wildlife. If I kill it, I eat/skin/tan, etc. it. At least I skin and eat it, I'll have someone else do tanning for me until I have time to learn how and do it myself.

Okay, check out the article about these bullets. Very interesting...

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

A scope on a 30-30?

Never! Most anyone considers a 30-30 a brush gun, with power for big deer out to 150yds for a good shooter, 100yds for those in dense cover or that don't practice at longer ranges. I can tag an 8" steel plate at 200yds all day long open sight with mine. No need for a scope. If you can't see that far with the aid of eye glasses or not, then maybe you shouldn't be in the woods.

And that's not a slam. Along with other .30cal bolt action magnum rifles, I have two lever actions in my safe. Marlin in 30-30 that has taken 7 deer. And a Win94 in .32win that has taken countless others. Open sighted. And that's the way they'll stay. My hunting pistols are also open sighted. My son's single shot .243 is also open sighted for his first hunt this year. (although I think I'm gonna give him a scope for Christmas). My point is, with a scope, one is tempted to shoot farther than the cartridge is capable of killing. Especially a slow moving 30-30. The wonderful thing about a lever gun is that it's short, light, holds 7 rounds, and is quick to the eye in dense cover. 'The last place you need a scope'. Sure, I know, well placed shots at 200yds are possible on anything smaller than Elk, but it's ill advised.

FYI, On my hunting trips, my 30-30 always goes with me. It is the backup I can always depend on. Yes, nowadays I usually hunt with magnum bolt action, but I know, if I have a scope issue, (I use Leupold), I can always go back to camp to get "Mr Lucky". (One of my hunting partners named my Marlin years ago).

-Steve

 

[mustanger98]

VietVet, I wouldn't be one to complain about old hunting stories. I thought this was one of several cyber-hunting camps. And the first .30-30 I ever fired was a 336C with a fixed 4X scope.

Those 150gr Silvertips are what Carmicheal said does the 261yd PBZ.

That new Hornady ammo looks like it'd be worth a look.

 

[mustanger98]

Regarding scopes on my .30-30's, I can go either way. My 340 Savage has a 3-9x32 Bushnell, but my '94 has a Lyman #2 tang sight.

Steve, I recommend reading Layne Simpson's article which has been discussed some in this thread. His .30-30 is T/C's Contender and he's talking about using 150gr spitzers to 300yds. With the average RN hunting bullets, I wouldn't recommend past 200yds or the 261yd PBZ (for the 150gr Silvertip) if you sight in that way- to shoot through a 10" pipe (10" being the size of a deer's kill zone) to the distance that's no longer possible.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

And what is the kinetic energy for those 150gn bullets at 300yds from a Contender?

Even at 200yds you're losing the amount of energy to effectively break bone and pennetrate to the vitals of a big deer.

Sure, it'll shoot that far, but I don't like to track my fallen deer. I'm also teaching my boys to make a clean humane kill. And that means to limit the weapon or shooter's shooting distance if need be. Next, you'll see that someone read about the shots out at 300yds and some nimrod will try this on Elk at those ranges. -Another wounded animal to die in the woods. OK, do this on pigs and other vermin. Or well, if you must, Pronghorns. Or those little forien Gazzelles fenced in on a Texas ranch.

All I'm saying is that there are limitations to the 30-30, and that in my eyes, one should not need a scope on a brush gun. I shoot my magnum pistols out over 100 yards in practice, but on a big deer or Elk, I would limit the distance fired because I am well aware of the loss of killing power at longer distances.

As far as the Hornady ammo goes, any hand loader should be able to match the balistics. But I don't hand load for the 30-30. It's not really cost effective when I can pick up WST on sale for less than $9 a box.

-Steve

 

[ReadyontheRight]

My wife thinks I should limit myself to one gun of each type

Big deer rifle
Little deer rifle
Western deer rifle
Eastern deer rifle
Midwestern deer rifle
African rifle
European rifle
Asian rifle
Brush rifle
Deer stand rifle
Field hunting rifle
Mountain rifle
Every rifle issued to US troops (or a semi-auto version of same)
A few extra Garands
Moose rifle
Elk rifle
Varmint rifle
Bug-out rifle
Every rifle ever mentioned by name by gun-grabbers before they grab them (SKS, AK clones, AR15, Saiga, "armor-piercing 30-30", etc.)
Cowboy rifle
Pistol caliber rifle
Big bore rifle
Guide gun rifle
Military surplus rifles that dip below $100
.22
another .22
Weird caliber rifle
Oh yeah -- gotta get a Scout rifle 'cause Jeff Cooper likes 'em.

Hmmm - I still think we need more "types".

 

[Vern Humphrey]

You left out wildcat cartridge rifle, dangerous game rifle, long range target rifle, silhouhette rifle, rimfire silhouhette rifle, kentucky rifle, hawkin rifle, schutzen rifle, bench rest rifle, tactical rifle, drilling, want me to go on?

 

[mustanger98]

Even at 200yds you're losing the amount of energy to effectively break bone and pennetrate to the vitals of a big deer.

Honestly, I don't know the numbers concerning kinetic energy on any of these rounds, but I know some are higher than others. I also know a spitzer is known as a longer range deal than a RN to begin with.

Sure, it'll shoot that far, but I don't like to track my fallen deer. I'm also teaching my boys to make a clean humane kill. And that means to limit the weapon or shooter's shooting distance if need be. Next, you'll see that someone read about the shots out at 300yds and some nimrod will try this on Elk at those ranges. -Another wounded animal to die in the woods. OK, do this on pigs and other vermin. Or well, if you must, Pronghorns. Or those little forien Gazzelles fenced in on a Texas ranch.

In Layne Simpson's article he told about the deer he shot at 300yds with his spitzer-handloaded .30-30 and he said it was a one shot stop. I don't recall him saying he had to track. A lot of this has to do with the shooter's ability to place the bullet too. I'd still confine my elk shooting to within 150yds with 165-170grainers and be picky about the shot. But, given a choice, I'd rather use a .375Winchester big bore on elk- same rifle, bigger punch.

All I'm saying is that there are limitations to the 30-30, and that in my eyes, one should not need a scope on a brush gun. I shoot my magnum pistols out over 100 yards in practice, but on a big deer or Elk, I would limit the distance fired because I am well aware of the loss of killing power at longer distances.

I agree based on the fact there are limitations on everything. And I don't consider .30-30 to be strictly a "brush gun", although I know that's how many have spent their careers. I refer back to Layne Simpson's article where he said to the effect that "handloading spitzers makes a 200yd deer getter into a 300yd deer getter". 300yds is not out of the question with iron sights, depending on the load, sights, and shooter's ability. I wouldn't take just anything out there without knowing what I could do with it, nor would I recommend it.

As far as the Hornady ammo goes, any hand loader should be able to match the balistics. But I don't hand load for the 30-30. It's not really cost effective when I can pick up WST on sale for less than $9 a box.

Editted to respond to that last quote:

That's true to a point. It depends on whether you want to improve the performance. It also depends on which rifle you're dealing with as to whether trying for the improved performance is feasible. I like that $9/box deal too, but I also like to see how other bullets will perform in the same chambering.

 

[VietVet]

I said I shoot conservatively...

JackOfAll,

Re-read what I wrote about not taking chances with my shooting. Don't worry about me taking extra long shots with anything, and I am considered "dead eye" by friends who have watched me shoot, both rifles, and shotguns for quail and dove. I shoot fairly, respecting both meanings of the word.

As far as the "brush gun" idea, I would never knowingly shoot through brush. About the same time I read the Jack O'Connor artilce (45 or so years ago) about the "good ole thuty-thuty", he also wrote an article regarding so-called "brush guns", which debunked the myth that slower, bigger calibers are more effective than flatter trajectory bullets when hunting in heavy woods. He used ballistics testing which actually proved that a faster and lighter bullet faired better after hitting a twig than slower heavier loads. If I remember correctly, they tested at least the 30-30, .270, etc., and learned that the faster bullet stayed on course better than the slower one. Anyway, I do not use the 30-30 as a "brush gun". For me, there is no such rifle made, unless brush gun simply means one that is easier to carry in the woods because of length and weight.

I wear glasses, and shoot well. I do not use a scope for the purpose of shooting 300 yards, but simply to help accuracy from about 150 yards and under. My last deer was killed with a borrowed scoped 30-30 at about 50 yards. Scope probably did not help in that situation, but neither did it get in the way.

Hey, don't worry about me, I take things slowly; I haven't bought a scope yet. But I will...

 

[Oldnamvet]

I use scopes

Just to clear something up JackOfAll. When you get old, as all of us hopefully will, the eye changes from being able to focus close and far to being like a point-and-shoot camera. We focus fine on things from 6 feet to infinity. Open sights are very difficult to use then and a low power scope or red dot allows us to make clean accurate shots. Suggesting that someone who needs such an accessory should not be in the woods because of that alone is pushing things a bit. When your time comes to need trifocals to focus on anything closer than your feet, do you intend to stop hunting with a rifle? I'll be out there next week, with my 1.5x to 4x scope.

 

[VietVet]

Thanks...

Oldnam,

Very well said indeed. We do love hunting and being in the woods, do we not? Even with bi/tri/focaled eyes. Yes, we do and we will hunt, and do it right!

 

[AStone]

Just to clear something up JackOfAll. When you get old, as all of us hopefully will, the eye changes from being able to focus close and far to being like a point-and-shoot camera.

+1 for that.

The only thing I'd respectfully change is, use the word "older" instead of "old".

If I live to be 110, I'll never be "old", just older. (I'm now 55, and can dance circles around 20-somethings.)

"Old" is a state of mind, and too associated in our youth-worshipping culture with "used up" and "useless".

Interesting thread folks. Lots of good info here. Thanks.

Nem

 

[Lonestar.45]

Many folks think it is heresy to put a scope on a 30-30 (but many of the same people don't have a problem scoping a .22lr that has a max range of probably 50 yds , or a pistol, or a slugged shotgun for that matter!). I find absolutely nothing wrong with it. Anything you can do to make it "yours" and comfortable to shoot, just do it.

My 30-30 wears irons, because it's a top eject and I don't like the scout or side mounts I'd have to put on it. But if I were to buy a new 30-30, there's no doubt I'd scope it. I shoot better with one, and in dark woods with low light conditions, a scope is light years ahead of iron sights. I can get another 5 minutes or so shooting time at dusk in dark woods with a scope, but with irons, I have to pack it up and go home. Those extra 5 minutes at that time of day, when you're deer hunting.....well guys, you know what I'm talking about--that could mean the difference between having venison in your freezer for the next year or frozen pizza.