.30-40 Krag/Spanish American War monument

[mokin]

I came across a Spanish-American War monument, erected in 1900, depicting a soldier with a .30-40 Krag. This piqued my cuirosity because to my knowedge, the Krag wasn't in general use during the war. A little research indicated that two of the units named on the monument, the 3rd Regiment Volunteer Cavalry "Grigsby's Rough Riders", and the 2nd Regiment Volunteer Cavalry "Torrey's Rough Riders" did not see combat, and never left the U.S. The remaining unit named on the monument, the 1st South Dakota Regiment Volunteer Infantry was deployed to the Phillipines and briefly served under General MacAurther. However,they were not issued the M1896 Krag rifle. What I found really interesting was mention of dissatisfaction among the troops with the M1896 Krag. Not for its' weak action but an appearent lack of knock down power (I can hear them grousing about it now...).

So, I've been thinking about the monument, the men it honors, the people who commissioned it, the public sentiment at the time, and the choice of using the .30-40 Krag - a high velocity (for the time), small(er) caliber round in a rifle with a higher cyclic rate... you probably get the picture.

Anyway it is a cool monument. I've never seen a monument to the men of the Spanish American war or a .30-40 Krag depicted in a monument before and I thought I'd share.

If you're interested, here is link to some good stuff. Enjoy.

http://www.spanamwar.com/1stSouthdakota.htm

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

very neat, i'll be interested in watching for the smart people to comment here.

 

[Jim K]

Apparently accuracy was not considered a requirement for the folks who turned out statues in that era. FWIW, I once read an article on a post-Civil War statue of a CSA soldier in a Mississippi town; the gallant defender of the Old South was wearing a SAW uniform.

Jim

 

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // I just shot mine last week, smooth and much less recoil than it's successor the 1903.

The Krag was short lived 1892-99 because the Spanish Mauser was so powerful and faster to reload.
We did make a few 1898s with a stripper clip adapter but they did not preform well.

Here is mine.
U.S. Springfield Armory 1898 chambered in .30 Army or .30-40 Krag.
This one has the 1901 rear sight which allows you to adjust for windage.


Thanks for the post, very cool that the soldier is holding a Krag.

 

[deadin]

Interesting!! I have a S&W 44/40 Frontier Double Action that belonged to one of the troopers in Troop G US Vol. Cavalry. (Unfortunately he didn't get the gun until 1900 or so.) I also have the complete history (reprint) of the Third US Vol Cav as written by a member of the staff in 1899. (All 26 Chapters and some 360 pages, with complete muster rolls by troop.) The history I have calls them "Grigsby's Cowboys". I have seen a newspaper that used the name "Grigsby's Rough Riders", so, take your pick.

Here is a picture that might be of interest:
Its title is " Trooper Roy Virgin of the 3rd U.S. Volunteer Cavalry. This photo appears to have been taken at Camp Thomas. Behind him is a Civil War era Three Inch Ordnance Rifle"

{Sure looks like a Krag to me.)

 

[natman]

duplicate, see below

 

[natman]

I came across a Spanish-American War monument, erected in 1900, depicting a soldier with a .30-40 Krag. View attachment 169629This piqued my cuirosity because to my knowedge, the Krag wasn't in general use during the war.View attachment 169630 A little research indicated that two of the units named on the monument, the 3rd Regiment Volunteer Cavalry "Grigsby's Rough Riders", and the 2nd Regiment Volunteer Cavalry "Torrey's Rough Riders" did not see combat, and never left the U.S. The remaining unit named on the monument,View attachment 169633the 1st South Dakota Regiment Volunteer Infantry was deployed to the Phillipines and briefly served under General MacAurther. However,they were not issued the M1896 Krag rifle.

I don't know about those specific units, but the Krag was the official service rifle during 1898 when the Spanish American war took place. Doubtless there were units that were still using the single shot 45-70s, but many Krags were used as well.

What I found really interesting was mention of dissatisfaction among the troops with the M1896 Krag. Not for its' weak action but an appearent lack of knock down power (I can hear them grousing about it now...).

The military loading for the Krag was a 30 caliber 220 grain roundnose at 2000 fps. Not quite as flat shooting as the 7x57 and the gun wasn't as quick to reload as the Mauser, but I can't imagine anyone shot with one was going to continue fighting for very long.

I suspect that any dissatisfaction was based on troops accustomed to a 45-70 looking at the "tiny" bullet and speculating that it wouldn't work rather than actual results.

 

[Mk VII]

Mallory's book on the Krag has a war memorial statue on the cover and comments that the sculptor has got the barrel band wrong - more like a civil war musket. It's not uncommon to see this sort of stuff in memorials, whether artistic licence, difficulties in casting/chiselling representations of precision-manufactured items, or indifference.

 

[mokin]

Nice pictures Gentlemen. I came across the name "Grigsby's Cowboys" as well and also reference to "Cowboy Regiments" of volunteers. I went with "Grigsby's Rough Riders" as that is what is on the monument.

From some of the stuff I read it appears the .30-40 Krag was the "official" rifle in the Spanish American War for soldiers in the regular forces and "Rough Riders". As for volunteer infantry, it seems they were issued .45-70s. And, as far as the issue of "knock-down power" that debate was (is) pretty much academic. As an example, in comparison, I read of the replacement of the .577/450 Martini-Henry with the .303 and the results in the Zulu wars that had just recently happend. Lots of anecdotal evidence to the "weakness" of the .303.

 

[deadin]

If I knew I was going to hit my target with the first shot I think I would choose the big lead .45 cal pumpkin ball. However if I missed on that shot the extra rapidly available 4 ( or 9) shots from the Krag or the Lee-Enfield would be pretty handy..... (Even if they were FMJ's.)

 

[kragluver]

There were sufficient Krags to arm the entire regular Army at the time of the SAW. The volunteers were armed with Trapdoor rifles. AFIK, the Rough Riders were the only volunteer unit to see combat armed with Krag carbines. No Model 1898 Krag rifles would have seen combat as they were manufactured too late - only 1892/1896 rifles. The Spanish-American War foreshadowed the difficulties that Springfield Armory was to face in 1917 arming an exponentially growing US Army!

The Krag held its own against the Spanish Mauser. It was not as out-classed as some would say - at least for its day. It didn't have much design growth potential and it was expensive to manufacture - hence the development of the M1903.