30 rounds in an M16 magazine? Urban Legend?

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Sounds like your platoon needs educated on the truth. If you slide the mag in the well, then smack it lightly it always seats (takes very little to do this).
Any AR/M-16 will do the same with a USGI mag. Sounds like the typical urban myths that come from REMF units about the 30th rd jamming.
Of course it helps to actually shoot an AR/M-16 to know that it doesnt happen, so what platoon are you in, the cub scouts? If you are in the Army or Marines you would have fired the M-16 or M-4 at least in basic training, and if you have been in for more than a year at least 2 qualifications.
Im skeptical of your sources, or if you are in the military.
 
SHvar, I heard this in my platoon that I recently graduated from at MCT East. So your supposition that they were inexperienced is quite true (they were all non-infantry Pvt.'s and PFC's whose only expirience in the Marine Corps was boot camp). I blame the fact that they believed the myth on the fact that they graduated from second battalion instead of third ;-). I am however, offended though that you would suggest that I am pretending to be a Marine, and in a way, steal the honor those who have earned the title. I'm not sure how exactly you want me to prove myself but if you want to PM me I'd be more than happy to prove to you that I am not a disgusting coward claiming the title of Marine. I assure I am not a key board commando/mall ninja
Respectfully,
CUAG
 
Ignore the troll. Nothing that you posted would suggest anything amiss in your service. It makes some of the lower life-forms happy to make such silly comments.

The original M16 magazines of the 1960's, as used in Vietnam, were poorly designed, fragile, and would actually bulge when loaded. I was there, and in combat, not some REMF, like your troll, if he was even IN the service. Down-loading the magazines was NOT a policy promoted by MacNamara, or his Whiz Kids. They maintained that the M16 was a viable platform as issued, and that any deviation from that wasn't necessary. The quality of the weapons varied widely due to various fixes and use. The "download mags" was a result of experience, and, after the debacle with ammunition, spread quickly throughout the Theater as another example of poor design.

I would hope that modern magazines had resolved this problem, but wear and tear is an uncontrollable factor to many in the military. The M16, after it's poor start, has been under continuous redesign since then, along with it's ammunition. The legends, and myths, following it seem to be cyclical, but all of them appear to have a basis in fact, even if the facts existed 50 years ago.

In today's world, the 30 round magazine, in good working order, should offer you 30 reliable rounds.

I am not a fan of the M16, but I'm not going to buy into the "still broke" outlook.
 
I think that rumor started a long time ago. Not sure when it started, but never had a problem with the issue.
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It is not a rumor.
And it started during the Vietnam war.

At the time, we were issued 5.56 ammo in 20-round cardboard boxes.

Mag loading time often found several GI's loading mags, or helping.

A couple of guys would rip the boxes open and dump the loose rounds in a steel helmet.
Others would be grabbing loose ammo out of the helmet and stuffing mags.

If the Stuffie got overzealous, it was sometimes possible to stuff 21 rounds in a 20-round mag, or 31 in a 30-round mag.

In either case, the overfilled mag could not be locked in an M-16 unless the bolt carrier was open.

And then, they very often didn't have enough recoil spring strength to strip the first round out of the over-filled mag.

SO, you were left standing there with an empty rifle that wouldn't load, and wouldn't unload until you locked the bolt open manually and ripped the hung-up mag out forcefully.

It quickly became GI SOP to load mags full, and strip two out.
Giving you 18 or 19, or 28 or 29 rounds that would go in any gun, open or closed, and work when you loaded the first round.

Eventually, we got ammo in 10-round stripper-clips & cloth bandoleers, instead of 20-round boxes.

But by then, the load full & strip two was firmly ingrained in every GI's head.

rc
 
I've had this problem with both my bolt action AK47 and AR15. In both cases it was actually a problem with the mags themselves. The AR15 was using those plastic follower types which used to cant oddly and lock up. The AK mag had some issues with the profile of the lips - sorted with some judicial file work to smooth them out. Both just couldn't function under the full load. Taking a few rounds out freed everything up
 
so what platoon are you in, the cub scouts?
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Pfffft, no, everyone knows that you don't get issued the M4/M16 until you're a Weebalow. Cubbies get Hi-Point 9mm carbines; nothing more, nothing less. Weebalow's is my current unit (they've held me back a few times). But then again, we're not the tip of the BSA assault division spear, so maybe they spread this rumor to download by one until you're a full-fledged scout, when they tell you the REAL DEAL.
 
With 30 rounds loaded in a USGI magazine it can be hard to lock the magazine in the mag well when the bolt is closed (as in a tactical reload, etc.). Downloading by a couple rounds helps with this. I've personally never had problems with running 30 rounds through a good condition USGI magazine when loading from an open bolt.
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This is true of many magazines, especially higher capacity ones. Probably a matter of spring pressure as much as anything.
 
Per the OP, I've often heard this one quoted in uniform. My own experience leads me to believe otherwise, and I load 30 weather in uniform or on the range in civvies.

Another myth I have heard about the 30 round mags, is that you cannot use them as a rest if you are shooting from the prone position or it could cause the firearm to jam.
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In Basic training, we got smacked on the kevlar if we were caught doing this. Now, however, from a 1SG of a BCT PLT that I shot with while at Ft. Benning last year, they allow it. The new mantra is "if it helps you put rounds on target, do it."
 
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In Basic training, we got smacked on the kevlar
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Kevlar? We had steel, man..... :)

And yes - we were taught not to rest the rifle on the mag. We did anyway, and it never seemed to cause functional issues. We didn't really pay much attention to mag catch wear; we were young and they were just issue mags...
 
Sounds like your platoon needs educated on the truth. If you slide the mag in the well, then smack it lightly it always seats (takes very little to do this).
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Yeah . . . except when it doesn't. It's a legitimate issue with some USGI weapons and USGI magazines. I've never had an issue with it, but then I would never light smack a magazine into place on a tac reload -- it gets hit hard and then a downward pull to verify lock. Never had a problem using that technique, which is what the Group SFAUC committee taught in my last unit for team guys and us mere mortal support types.

In Basic training, we got smacked on the kevlar if we were caught doing this. Now, however, from a 1SG of BCT PLT that I shot with while at Ft. Benning last year, they allow it. The new mantra is "if it helps you put rounds on target, do it."
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+1 -- I'm from that generation, too. Post-2001 I've always been amused by some of the utterly stupid things doctrine writers came up with while doing their peacetime navel gazing thing -- I can remember getting my first basic training class on how to put on camo face paint and the drill sergeants having anyone who wore glasses paint up most of their lenses. Apparently peripheral vision wasn't really an important thing back when the Russians were the bad guys . . .

As far as using a mag as a monopod, I wouldn't recomend it.
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Works completely fine and has never caused me any problems at all after being told that's how you shot from the prone unsupported by the above mentioned SFAUC committee types.
 
My personal input

Okay, I fired several M16A2's and SAW's in my day with the USGI Mag...here is my experience.....

1) New Mags are stiff, so loading them for the first few times can be tuff. I suggest sticking to 29 rounds until the have had a couple of run throughs....if you can get older mags, make sure they aren't from the 70's or something cause you don't want one with a weak spring.

2) The 30 rnd USGI mags will not press much below 30 rnds. Obviously @ 30 rnds, the spring tention pushing through all 30 rounds onto the BCG of the rifle adds alot of friction which could reduce effective recoil neccessary to fully cycle and pick up the next round. I've never experienced this, but it is plausable.

3) I think it was the A2's that had the extra cuts on the bore face (called feed ramps) before that, it was a straight ledge. This was a problem since when a round is picked up by the BCG, the front end needs to be lifted at a 10 degree angle in order to clear the bore ledge.....the feed ramps help reduce those chances. However, in a full 30 round Mag, when the BCG picks up the round, the front end is lifted because of the lips on the magazine itself. This also causes the the rear of the round to depress the spring in order to insert at the 10 degree angle to clear the bore ledge. So, a new mag may be to stiff to depress those extra few milimeters in order to achive the 10 degree clearance angle.

3) If your stuck with new mags but don't want to chance a jam, you could use a file to shave a millimeter or two off the forward looking ledge of the mag closest to the tip of the first round. This well give the round a few extra millimeters of chance to gain the 10 degree angle needed to clear the bore ledge.

4) if you have to use a mag in a SAW, only fire in short burst (2-5 rounds), the mag spring response time is not fast enough to feed the beast all the way through....trust me, I tried.

5) when using blanks for training exercises, don't put more then 28 round in any mag since the tip of a blank is crimped and therefore flat....it will catch the bore ledge, regardless of spring tension.

6) Also, the mag retainer tab in a AR is not a percision fit with any USGI MAG. There is always some play. If you pull on the mag towards your person, you will increase the angle in which a round or blank will need to clear the bore ledge. If you press the mag forward, you can reduce the angle.

7) IF you experience a jam, sometimes you can do a super quick fix by pressing the mag away from you and recharging the charge handle (works 30% of the time). Learn S.P.O.R.T.S. (Slap, Pull, Observe, Release, Tap, Squeeze) well though.
 
With brand new mags right outta the plastic I have fired a few full mags through a SAW as one single burst. But, like I said, they were BRAND NEW,

Also I think just charging the bolt works 90% of the time in my experience, if not more.
 
The troll is anyone who says that a current USGI mag will jam if you load it full.
I for one was an infantryman who served in combat for my country with the M-16. Id venture to guess long before many who post here were even old enough to go to school.
If the OP was told this info by his platoon members, hed do better to avoid taking advice from that platoon member on anything involving using his rifle when the SHTF.
If I offended the OP Im sorry, but maybe I dont have as much patience for urban myths when it comes to training a professional soldier.
Then again I remember dealing with reserve and national guard units in the past, it amazed me just how much some of those individuals are taught lies by their units when it comes to combat training.
I also have 2 USGI mags that traveled around the world with me, and into battle, to this day both work great. I dont like using them as much as I do my Pmags, but they work great and have never caused a jam, or misfed on any rifle they were ever used in, no matter how full or empty.
 
Your experience notwithstanding, there are any number of people on this Board who served long before you, sir. Some of us actually were alive when the M16 was forcibly issued over our complaints in Vietnam. The magazines then were jokes, and they remain one of the weakest points in the M16 system to this day. Anybody who thinks differently is advisedly one of the Cub Scouts that you refer to.

There are a number of 30 round magazines in current use that are USGI, and WORN OUT. Your statement is patently false. Those "USGI magazines" will NOT be reliable. I'd also like to point out that USGI magazines for the M16 have gone through multiple bids, and manufacturers, some just a "little" bit less qualified than others, and the results have shown up in use, much like the M9 mags in Iraq.

We don't all believe that senior non-coms have a reason for lying to their troops. Unlike you, many have somehow missed the almost god-like omniscience that has allowed you to choose only 100% reliable issue equipment over the years.

As mentioned, the M16 has been in existence for nearly 50 years. Stories about it's failures and troubles abound. There is a certain amount of garbage coming from both it's detractors, and it's supporters. Beyond that, though, there are the reports by military test groups, and depot and arsenal reports that show a troubled history. Today's M4 is a far cry from the flawed weapon introduced into warfare in Vietnam. I'm not talking about it's ammunition, either.

Technical updates and upgrades have been a continuing fact of life for both the M16, and it's ammunition. Telling National Guardsmen, Reserves, or other Services that they must belong to the Cub Scouts because they don't agree with one person's opinion out of millions shows less knowledge, and more ego, then anything else. Unfortunately, ego actually never won a battle, but it has killed a lot of people.
 
30 Round Mags for the M-16

My brother who has done 3 tours in Iraq, 1 in Korea has said that he was instructed by a Sgt. Major, who was a small arms weapons expert, that the reason for putting 28 rounds in instead of the full 30 is because of studies the Army had done had shown that putting the full 30 in caused the springs to wear out faster in the magazines. Putting 28 rounds in gave the springs almost double the life of fully loading it. Putting the full 30 in doesn't cause the gun to jam, it just causes the springs in the magazine wear out faster; at least that's what the Sgt. Major told him. Whether or not that's true, I can't really say for sure.:)
 
My brother who has done 3 tours in Iraq, 1 in Korea has said that he was instructed by a Sgt. Major, who was a small arms weapons expert, that the reason for putting 28 rounds in instead of the full 30 is because of studies the Army had done had shown that putting the full 30 in caused the springs to wear out faster in the magazines. Putting 28 rounds in gave the springs almost double the life of fully loading it. Putting the full 30 in doesn't cause the gun to jam, it just causes the springs in the magazine wear out faster; at least that's what the Sgt. Major told him. Whether or not that's true, I can't really say for sure.
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That's an interesting theory. When you load a magazine by stripper clips you are putting 10 rounds in three times. If you then download two in order to achieve less spring tension, the damage (if any) is already done. Springs wear out two different ways, the first is by the number of cycles, and the second is by over compressing. So..............if you over compress by putting thirty rounds in then you might just as well leave them there, what ever detriment there is to the spring has already been done.

Now if you load 28 rounds loosely, that's a whole different thing.
 
This advice had its origins in the Vietnam era, when issued magazines were not very reliable.


There were early mags that would spreand the lips if you loaded them up. Downloading 1 or 2 is to make it easier to do a tacical reload with the bolt forward. Some will say you can do this with 30 rds and you can sometimes and sometimes not.
 
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