.300 ACC Blackout Casing Question

GarandMan94

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2015
Messages
56
Hi everyone,
I have been considering buying a .300blk upper for a while now, before i pull the trigger (haha) i had a question about reloading .300BLK:
I know the parent case for .300BLK is the .223rem cartridge what i want to know is can i trim down my .223 and 5.56mm brass to make 300BLK cases?
Has anyone done something like this?
What kind of equipment would you recommend? (I have a Lee single stage and 4hole turret press)
Most importantly is it safe?
Thanks
-Sam
 
The original was made from a .221 Fireball I think.

However, yes, you can convert 5.56 into BLK. Brother was into doing that, I simply bought my brass from Starline for simplicity and consistency. As I am running a bolt gun I don't need a ton of brass.

Read up some as I think some cases are more desirable for conversion than others.

Will need a small chop saw to cut them down. Then, dies. Very doable.
 
RCBS small base die set https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011284542 $52 + Shell holder. A cut off tool- *Redding Trim and Form Die. *This die requires an extended shellholder available from Redding.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101622015


& this-
Forming 300 AAC Blackout Cases
Posted by Steph @ Lee Precision on 20 June 2012 08:36 AM
Should you choose to make 300 AAC Blackout cases from 223 Remington or 5.56 cases, you may have to ream the case necks to obtain a maximum loaded case neck outside diameter of .3340". The reason for this is that the case wall thickness of a rifle case is tapered, being thinnest at the case neck and thicker towards the case head. When you trim the longer case to the shorter dimension, you are getting into a thicker case wall. The maximum allowable case neck wall thickness is .013" when seating a .308" bullet. Because of the taper of the case, wall thickness at the case neck mouth may be .013" but could be thicker just above the shoulder. The thicker wall in this area will cause the loaded case neck outside diameter to be in excess of .3340". This will cause the bullet to be pinched by the case when the round is chambered, which may result in dangerously high chamber pressures.
Some brands of brass need neck turned or reamed.
 
Last edited:
The original was made from a .221 Fireball I think.
Just to set the record straight the 300 Whisper is technically a 221 Fireball necked up, the 300 Blackout is a 223 case cut short and necked down.
It's a trivial difference in dimensions, at the time the Blackout was standardised there were a few versions of the Whisper because of trademark infringement, AAC basically made a chamber to envelope the largest dimensions of them so in essence a Blackout chamber can shoot any whisper but some old Whisper chambers may require neck turning.
 
Since you're building an "upper" and depending on the barrel you choose you might be able to get away without neck turning, AR 300 blk chambers are generally more forgiving. I've converted thousands of 223/556 cases to .300 BLK but stuck to the following brass without issues. PSO, PMC (Large Font), LC (Any), R-P, GFL.

My process. Cut to a length where I will not need to trim after sizing, Chamfer/Debur, Tumble, Resize/Form to 300 BLK, Tumble again to get the lube off.
 
The wise man has spoken.

Way way back in the day, I converted 1,000's of .223
Chop, deburr, size, trim, deburr....
Only brass that was too thick to chamber after conversion was S&B.

Fast forward to modern times.... Just buy it.


HAHAHA...............Wise--------NO !.......................................Wise***-------probably...............:rofl:

There has been soooo many threads on this subject, and it seems like the majority have said it's a hassle to convert.
Especially those certain cases that have been determined to be problematic............
Not that I mind doing the work, but I have had such good luck with all Starline brass.....:thumbup:
 
HAHAHA...............Wise--------NO !.......................................Wise***-------probably...............:rofl:

There has been soooo many threads on this subject, and it seems like the majority have said it's a hassle to convert.
Especially those certain cases that have been determined to be problematic............
Not that I mind doing the work, but I have had such good luck with all Starline brass.....:thumbup:

Back in the day, we did what we had to do.
There is now an EASY BUTTON.

Starline Rocks!!!! I love their products.

You are spot on.
 
HAHAHA...............Wise--------NO !.......................................Wise***-------probably...............:rofl:

There has been soooo many threads on this subject, and it seems like the majority have said it's a hassle to convert.
Especially those certain cases that have been determined to be problematic............
Not that I mind doing the work, but I have had such good luck with all Starline brass.....:thumbup:
The reason wildcat loaders want the cartridges they load to go mainstream is so they can buy good brass instead of having to make it.
 
Hi everyone,
I have been considering buying a .300blk upper for a while now, before i pull the trigger (haha) i had a question about reloading .300BLK:
I know the parent case for .300BLK is the .223rem cartridge what i want to know is can i trim down my .223 and 5.56mm brass to make 300BLK cases?
Has anyone done something like this?
What kind of equipment would you recommend? (I have a Lee single stage and 4hole turret press)
Most importantly is it safe?
Thanks
-Sam
Yes, I've done thousands with a gsi trim die set and a dillon trimmer. But these days it's easy to find both new and fired brass. There are several companies that sell converted brass as well, so you don't have too:). And if you are going to convert your own, you're going to want to anneal it as well, so more costs. Really, these days it's a labor of love for your average shooter. My advice would be just buy a thousand pieces of new starline, and call it good
 
A friend of mine converted .223 to .300BO for a short while, only because he couldn't get the proper brass. Once he was able to get the brass he quit converting it. I think he only did about 100 cases, and he ruined several in the process. He says he will do it again if he has to, and he's glad he learned how, but as long as brass is available he'll just buy it.

chris
 
I made 1000 300 cases from lake city military brass from random years. It works perfect!

I know there is go/no-go list floating around that tells which brands have wall thickness issues.

LC is a winner and you can find them all day at the ranges.
 
Here's my procedure. For starters, not all 5.56 / .223 Rem brass is suitable for conversion. Ideally, the neck wall thickness will be 0.010" to 0.011", and suitable wall thicknesses can go up to 0.013". At 0.014" and above, however, the finished cartridge diameter at the neck may be too thick to chamber. Fortunately, there's a pretty comprehensive list of brass types and their wall thicknesses over on another forum. Keep in mind, this is just an informal list on the internet, so don't take it for gospel. You'll need to verify the accuracy on your own, but it's a great starting point. If you find it helpful, it may be a good idea to take screenshots of that page to save on your computer. I've had good results with FC brass, so I'll be using that below.

https://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88599

Onto the brass conversion. There are different ways to do this, but this is what works for me. First, you'll need a mini cut-off saw to trim the neck off the 5.56 brass. I bought mine from Harbor Freight. They currently sell for $40.

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-mini-benchtop-cut-off-saw-62136.html

faDJKb1.jpg

Next, you'll need a jig that mounts to the saw to hold your brass in place to cut it off. There are a number of different jigs out there that achieve the same thing. This one is from Zep Reloading, and costs $30.

https://www.zepreloading.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

4rucjeB.jpg

The way the jig works is that you slip an empty case into the jig, followed by another case to push the neck of the previous one out the other side. There's a spring loaded detent that captures the case at the rim and holds it securely to be cut. After cutting one piece of brass, you simply push another in from the left to eject the newly cut case and lock the next one in line. I can trim 100 cases in about 5 or 6 minutes. Some people rig up chutes and baffles to help direct the ejected brass, but I haven't bothered with that. At most, I may lay a narrow board across the edge of my work bench so the brass doesn't roll off.

xeFHbRS.jpg

A lot of people run their freshly cut brass through their regular full length sizing die to reform the neck into .300 Blackout. I found, however, that requires a lot of muscle and results in tons of stuck cases and frustration. After a bunch of research, I discovered form and trim dies. I had reloaded for many years, yet had never known of these. They essentially squeeze down the straight walls of the cases you just cut to form the .300 Blackout bottleneck. For the trim function (which I don't use), you can screw the die down onto a case in a raised shell plate and then file the protruding brass flush with the die to its correct length. This little die makes it world's easier to form your brass and saves much frustration over stuck cases in a regular sizing die. This Redding version is $53 at Midway.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101622015

aJn4w2I.jpg

The form and trim die is normally used with an extended shell holder on a single stage press. Since there's no option for that on my Dillon press, I need to mount the die on the underside of the toolhead so that it's low enough to form the brass.

2Z7OV6L.jpg

I use a Wilson case gage to set the form die.

https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/wilson-case-gage/case-preparation

1nlT5f1.jpg

After this step, I still run the brass through my regular full length die for final sizing, but it is MUCH easier having been formed first. If you've set your brass jig correctly in your mini cut-off saw, there should be little length trimming to do. I use my Wilson Case Trimmer for that, and then bevel and chamfer the mouth.

https://www.creedmoorsports.com/pro...h-micro-stop-stand-and-clamp/case-preparation

d7Thn5p.jpg

Finished loads. These have my hand cast and powder coated subs. Since you've cut the 5.56 brass near the bottom of the annealed portion of the case, some people prefer to anneal their newly formed Blackout brass to avoid split necks and perhaps create more uniform neck tension. So far, I haven't found a significant number a split necks after being fired multiple times, and since we're dealing with short range Blackout loads instead of target loads, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze with annealing, IMO, especially if you don't already have an annealing setup. Well, that's it. Hopefully this helps.

wzIoEw7.jpg
 
Thank you everyone for the info, i just checked the starline website, the price is better than I thought it was. I will have to do the math to see if the investment in equipment is more or less than 2000 new cases. I have literally thousands of .223 cases from the range. The range i go to sells me 5 gallon bucket’s of brass for scrap+$100
 
Curious about this "Form and Trim" Die. Does it just form the shoulder and neck and leave case wall untouched?
 
I just bought re-done Lake City and Starline brass... along with Berrys plated 220 grain bullets.
However, I've been shooting my 9mm AR more than anything. Loading 9mm with RMR 147 grain FMJ RN is cheap and easy. 3.8 grains of HP38/W231 at 1.14" OAL shoots great in both the pistol and carbine, and is still subsonic in both.

Getting the itch to shoot the 300BO more. Found that 10.5 grains of 4227 behind the 220 grain bullet works great subsonic, has consistent velocities and is also the most accurate of what I've tried with my 10.5" barrel. Some powders didn't have consistent velocities and accuracy until they were supersonic. H110/W296 for example.
 
Curious about this "Form and Trim" Die. Does it just form the shoulder and neck and leave case wall untouched?

Its used after cutting brass close to the correct length. Chamfer and deburr. It just forms the shoulder and neck. Then the brass is full length sized and finished trimmed, chamfer and deburr.
 
Curious about this "Form and Trim" Die. Does it just form the shoulder and neck and leave case wall untouched?
A Form and trim die will form the shoulder to the correct position and allow one to trim the case to the proper length. After chamfering and trimming, the case should be ready to use.

For trimming, the top of the die is hardened so that a file will not damage the die when filing the case mouth.

A Trim only die allows one to trim the die to length.

With a case forming form and trim die, whether the body of the case gets reformed or not depends on design of the newly formed case.

I forget if the body taper of a 300 BO case is different from 223 Rem case but the form die will make the changes.

In the early days of 300 BO, some chambers were cut tighter in the neck requiring the neck wall of the case be thinned to allow for room for the bullet and case wall.
 
Hmm. Sounds like extra work if you need to still size the body. Mileage may vary but I’ve been forming them in an RCBS SB die and have never stuck a case. Could be a combination of the lube (one shot) and specific headstamps I use but It doesn’t seem like much more effort than sizing .223 brass. It’s not creating a very large shoulder.
 
Sounds like extra work if you need to still size the body.
Post #16 by Gone Hiking covers it well, i think. Auto rifles need to chamber rounds freely. If not fl sizing after the Redding form & trim die, a case gauge that check the complete round is needed?

SAAMI lists body diameter at .3619" for AAC & .3584" for 223. So, FL sizing may not be needed as long as the head to datum measurement is correct.

I have never formed, reloaded or touched a 300 AAC Blk . I just follow instruction. :)
 
Last edited:
I built a machine to convert .223 to 300 for an ammunition manufacturer back when the 300 had the marketing push. This is the setup I used to test the blades with.



The GSI/Dillon die/trimmer make sort work of the rest.
 
Back
Top