300 Blackout, Should I add one to my collection?

[444]

Hi CraigC,
What commercial147gr whisper load is 40fps less than the 154gr Tula? Actual speed, not advertised.

What actual speed did you get out of the 154 Tula ?

I am trying to go through my notes on the .300 Whisper however my notes are not good. I show here that on August 15 I shot a load using a Sierra 150 grain BTSP with a 10 shot muzzle velocity average (using a Magnetospeed) of 2145 and a standard of deviation of 30.1 . However, it doesn't show what powder or what charge of this mystery powder I was using. It does say, one hole at 50 yards for whatever that is worth to me now. I would guess that I was using Lil Gun, but I can not confirm or deny that since I didn't write it down

I know I shot a bunch of loads using some 150 grain Remington soft points (I have most of a 1000 bullet box of them) but of course I didn't record the results appearently. I do remember that accuracy was quite good but I have no record of velocities.

 

[1stmarine]

What actual speed did you get out of the 154 Tula ?

2181fps - 5 shot avg. from a 16" 1:10 twist AR15 upper. .... And the 147gr whisper/blackout what brand/rifle?

 

[444]

I was shooting these out of a Remington 788 rebarreled to .300 Whisper by SSK. It's a 16" barrel, 1 in 7.

I am looking at the load data on the Hodgdon website which is where I would have gotten the load data from. They show 17.2 grains of Lil Gun gave them 2062 fps out of a 16", 1 in 8 twist barrel. I typically get a little more than what they show in the manual. Again, I didn't write it down at the time but I would be money that is the powder and charge weight I was using.

As I mentioned before, I have all kinds of .308 diameter bullets lying around from years of loading .30-06, .308, and .30 Carbine and I have probably tried them all in the .300 Whisper and later the .300 AAC Blackout. And I have used (almost exclusively) the load data from the Hodgdon website. However, it was only after I left the powders on the Hodgdon website and went to Vihtavuori powder that I really started getting really exceptional accuracy and acceptable standard of deviation.

I am not sure how those 150 grain bullets would perform if you wanted to hunt with this caliber. Personally, I see no reason for me to do it when I own a couple .308s and a couple .30-06s as well as a .30-30. If I wanted to use a .30 cal rifle, I got that covered. What would be the point of it ? I was just shooting those bullets because I had them.

As was mentioned briefly by 1stMarine: it really isn't possible to "hot" load the .300 AAC Blackout. When you are shooting at book max charges you are at the limit of case capacity. A lot of the heavy loads for .300 AAC Blackout are already compressed loads. This actually works out though for subsonics because even though you are using light powder charges, you are using heavy bullets that are seated really deep into the case. So the case volume is taken up largely by the bullet. So you don't have a lot of excess empty case capacity even with subs.

 

[444]

444, the 7.62x39 in a bolt is neither new nor innovative. Many of us have been enjoying that little "secret" for a long time now in Savages, Ruger 77's and CZ 527's. Ruger was behind the curve in releasing the American Ranch in that caliber, but I'm glad they did and they were smart to include the Mini mags.

I disagree that it isn't new or innovative.
The first reason you already mention: it uses an already existing detachable magazine. It has always been a gripe of mine, and not just with guns, when every time someone comes out with a new product, they design it so that you have to buy all new "stuff". Having a detachable magazine that was originally designed for use in another rifle is innovative. It's not unique, but it is a great feature lacking in the vast majority of other rifles. Note that the other Ruger American rifles didn't follow suit. The .300 Blackout uses a one-of magazine. Bad move on Ruger's part. This is also true of the rail for mounting optics. It uses a standard rail and not some unique design that limits what you can use or buy.

The price point of the Ruger American is another thing that rifle has going for it. I have said this before, but we seem to be living in a golden age of rifles. You can buy a rifle today for less than what one cost 20 years ago and it will easily out shoot the older rifle: which brings us to another point. The Ruger American from all accounts (including mine) is a very good shooting production rifle. That is innovation in and of itself.

Again, I probably am not going to buy one; but it seems to be a great little rifle.

 

[1stmarine]

A lot of people are going to go to the x39 affordable steel loads and then a few will reload for specific reasons.
Same think with any calibers, folks will get the cheap deals for volume shooting and then spend more for hunting or reload.
IMO everything is evolving, all calibers, all bullets, powders, rifles so this affects everything.
I don't have a 150gr recovered bullet to show but here I found a youtuber who posted a video of the 154gr Tula ballistic tests.
Like most youtubers take it with a grain of salt but they seem to work fine and consistent with what they do to hogs and deer.



The other thing about reloading with 30 caliber bullets some might work best than others depending on your rifle too. Some dies send the two expander
buttons in 308 and 310 sizes. Most bullets work surprisingly fine in most guns and a lot of people report 1moa with good guns, brass and bullets.
Also regarding the 100fps advantage for the x39 that might be with the cheapest possible steel loads but with careful reloading and
good brass one can raise the pressure w/o any ill effects.
Just from the top of my head a 110gr TTSX from barnes with 26+gr of 4227 will push these bullets in the mid 2600 fps from a 18" compact action.
This is about 250 to 300 fps faster than the best whisper load I can reload with the same bullets.
If you go to the SKS and AK boards you will find an ocean of information regarding how to efficiently reload with 30 caliber bullets.
At the same time some folks might find find great deals on the 310 bullets too including speer and priv.

Just to make sure, I like the whisper for what it is and that is why I believe it should not be compared so often IMO.
I actually bought it way before they rename it and marketed as the blackout.
Both calibers have plentiful firearms and inexpensive and relibale 30 round magazines for plinking.
It is just a matter if one wants a bit more edge with cheap steel options or prefers to have something more suitable for subsonic work.

IMO Light for caliber bullets and cartriges are not for big game. The x39 can be stretched a tad to a degree like shown above but otherwise
and like always, one should stick to small game or look into other calibers.

 

[1stmarine]

I think Bill Alexander conveyed well the challenges to get the whisper/blackout to be accurate and consistent.
It can be done but it is not a forgiving cartrige.

 

[Newtosavage]

444, you make good points. I was referring more to that caliber in an accurate, bolt action rifle. But the mag and suppressor options for the new RAR 7.62x39 are winners for sure. Enough that it has me looking at one, and rebarreling my Savage 10 to another caliber.

 

[Newtosavage]

1st Marine, that Tula 154 isn't bad stuff at all from my Savage. 2150 fps is about what I chrono'd it at myself, and it does perform admirably on game. Only beef I have with steel case cheap ammo at all is that it is dirtier than my handloads or something like the Winchester SP.

 

[1stmarine]

1st Marine, that Tula 154 isn't bad stuff at all from my Savage. 2150 fps is about what I chrono'd it at myself, and it does perform admirably on game. Only beef I have with steel case cheap ammo at all is that it is dirtier than my handloads or something like the Winchester SP.

I don't think one is going to have the consistency and clean powder of brass ammo but at less than $6 per case we should not expect miracles.
I have not been playing with loads for the whisper nor the x39 for a long time so I am sure one can find newer and better clean powders and moer modern bullets for both.
Corbon used to have a hot 150gr load that clocked 2250fps from the 18" repeater but for some reason they are hard to find. Possibly discontinued, not sure.




In any case they are expensive so better buy some 150gr jsps and reload and most likely can get even better speeds with modern brass
like lapua or winchester.
winchester are good loads. The issue with some factory ammo is that is loaded too mild due to Saami when in fact the brass can run at
much higher pressures and not just CIP nominal but beyond. Good brass like lapua, winchester, fiocci, are good and relaodable. Also very inexpensive to buy once fired.

The whisper likes 110gr bullets but since the 30 carbine bullets are not that efficient ballistically talking I think it is better to go
for some 30 caliber varmint bullets where one can find good deals too. hornady makes a well priced soft point and vmax.

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/30-cal-308-110-gr-sp#!/

speer 125gr are also good and well priced and can be used well in both calibers.

I remember guns and ammo wrote a piece on reloading with 30 cal bullets but I think it was stupid to go with longer barrels because some
might actually slow down the loads after certain barrel length so I would not go over 18". the increase in speeds are insignificant and might even loose speed
with some bullets and powders.
They also loaded to SAAMI max loads that makes no sense in modern days, given decent brass casings obviously.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/reloading/reloading-the-7-62x39/

 

[SamT1]

People just love to hate on the BO. As soon as we get some cheap ammo available it will be extremely popular.

Pretty much all the arguments against the BO are irrational.
You want cheap get a 22LR.
You want power get a .308

We can toss around the popular AR platform calibers all day and none of them are the king of the hill when compared to other things.

Let’s punch paper, my 22 is cheaper or .17 hmr for longer range.
Let’s shoot gongs at 600, gotta grab the 308 or 6.5
Let’s shoot some prairie dogs, I’ll grab my 22-250
Let’s shoot an elk, 7 mag it is.
Here comes a bear, get the guide gun 45-70
I’m getting mugged, I have my trusty 1911 45.
Let’s spotlight some coyotes, the 5.56 AR sounds good
Let’s shoot some pigs, get my blackout.
Let’s look cool at the range, grab the AR!

The day someone figures out how to make the blackout cartridge duplicate 308 win ballistics will be the day perfection is found. Until then, back to arguing!

 

[Newtosavage]

1stmarine,

I actually have some experience loading for the 7.62x39 now, having bought 100 brass Lapua cases and probably 8-10 different kinds of bullets over the past two years. The 160-grain Hornady FTX is a superb deer killer from that cartridge. I can get 2200 fps with it over a full charge of RL-7. 125-grain Nolser Ballistic Tips offer me 2350-2400 fps. and excellent accuracy as well. Haven't shot a deer with one yet, but I expect to soon. The best shooting "cheap" ammo I've found through my Savage is sold by Academy stores under the "Monarch" name. It's their 123-grain HP steel case and it is nearly identical to my 125-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip loads, but at $5.99/box I can shoot it and toss the cases all day without a care.

SamT1, I don't hate the 300 BO. I just don't agree with all the hype. When Ruger chambered their RAR in that caliber before the 7.62x39, I was dumbfounded. Happily they have rectified that mistake and I suspect people will reach past the 300 BO RAR to get the x39 many times over.

 

[1stmarine]

I don't know monarch but like all ammo is better to try it first. Some of the cheap stuff is actually pretty good and some is quite crappy although the x39 round was designed
to be made out of steel and to be made affordably and work reliably in the most extreme conditions like the AK itself that was built for this round.
So chances are one will not have problems with most ammo although consistency might not be there and some is dirty. There is also some decent surplus out there too.

The x39 and whisper / BO should not be compared. IMO the BO is an nice cartridge for subsonic work that is what it was originally designed for.
Nobody should hate any calibers. I might prefer some over another for a specific role but I actually enjoy learning about all calibers and all sort
of firearms and shooting. Does it have a trigger? you got my attention! lol

If one was looking for top performance in the AR15 one would not be looking at any 30 calibers and instead smaller calibers that are a lot more efficient and powerful
for the limited space of the platform like the 6.5 LBC/Grendel or the 6.8 SPC that is a proven deer and hog smasher.
Also out of a 223 case one has pretty easy and accurate wildcats that provide extra performance and are affordable and reliable like the 6mm-223, 6mm tcu and 25-45.
It doesn't get easier than that and those give more power and momentum on the target with minimum investment.
The 223 case itself has been evolving and there are some new powders and bullets that perform really well although one cannot beat the 6mm and 270 in hunting bullet
assortment from light varmints to 120gr for the 6.8.

The thing with the compact 30 calibers is that we like to shoot cheap light for caliber bullets and they can be fun and also can hunt to a certain size if we keep the distances
short. That is why I like to play with the different bullets because if one cannot have too much speed but one can put a bit more grain w/o drastically dropping the speed then
it is going to be more effective specially with large boars that can be hard to kill and dangerous too. The speed time to target and upon impact is the main issue so one has to
keep an eye on that.

 

[kcofohio]

A couple reasons of why I got into the BO.
A new range toy, and more reloading opportunity.
As a possible HD weapon. It's in pistol form.

As for the future of the cartridge. Well, it has been repeated more than once. The projectiles will be around for some time as long as there is .30 cals. And 223 brass will be around for some time too!

It will be interesting to see where the BO is in say 5 years. But I'm sure there will be quite a few of these discussions til then.

Edit: I do plan on assembling a BO upper in rifle form one day. (Realized after I posted, this is in the rifle sub-forum. Had to be a little relevant.)

 

[CraigC]

SamT1, I don't hate the 300 BO. I just don't agree with all the hype.

It's not "hype". The cartridge does what is claimed. For some reason that doesn't appeal to you but that doesn't mean the appeal it holds for others is bogus.

Happily they have rectified that mistake and I suspect people will reach past the 300 BO RAR to get the x39 many times over.

That 'may' happen when the 7.62x39 does what the .300BO does. Because currently, it does not. IMHO, if an individual is having a hard time choosing between the two, they don't have a clear understanding of their intended purpose. If I walk into the local shop and see the Ruger 7.62x39 standing there, I'll have a hard time not walking out with it but never would I think the two rifles would serve the same purpose. It's not going to replace my .300BO.

 

[someguy2800]

It's not "hype". The cartridge does what is claimed. For some reason that doesn't appeal to you but that doesn't mean the appeal it holds for others is bogus.



That 'may' happen when the 7.62x39 does what the .300BO does. Because currently, it does not. IMHO, if an individual is having a hard time choosing between the two, they don't have a clear understanding of their intended purpose. If I walk into the local shop and see the Ruger 7.62x39 standing there, I'll have a hard time not walking out with it but never would I think the two rifles would serve the same purpose. It's not going to replace my .300BO.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[solman]

When I first posted this thread I never thought it would generate so much response. I really learned a lot and am once again thankful for this forum.
I decided that the .300 is not for me at this time.
I will continue to refine my 556 skills for the time being I don't really need another caliber till I master the ones I have

 

[Newtosavage]

Good points. The 7.62x39 and 300 BO are different tools for different jobs. I personally don't see the appeal of 300 BO if someone is not planning to shoot subsonics, but then that just my opinion. Like 1stmarine said, no sense hating calibers. They are just tools.

When a good friend of mine spent literally an hour trying to sell me on his newest toy (a 300 BO upper) I still asked "why?" because he was not shooting subsonics. If he had a can and was shooting subs, I would have been like "cool bro."

Anyway, we all have our favorites I suppose. It's good to have choices.

 

[Walkalong]

I personally don't see the appeal of 300 BO if someone is not planning to shoot subsonics,

It's a very fun range toy with supersonic loadings. One of these days I'll get around to trying some subsonic ones. Back when cheap 147/150 pulled bullets were still available it was cheap plinking too.

 

[someguy2800]

The only two guns that appeal to me in 300 blackout are an AR15 with or without a suppressor, and a single shot pistol or rifle with a suppressor. For the AR15 is just makes sense given it uses the right bolt face and magazines and plentiful brass. In supersonic I see it as a good way to add just a little more short range oomph to the AR15 and with careful bullet selection it should be a good short range deer rifle for those who see the need to hunt with an ar15. When my suppressor paperwork finally goes through I want to also get a 300 blackout single shot pistol. Probably like an 8" barrel for my contender. I think that will be a hoot and a great rabbit puncher. If I was looking at a bolt action rifle in a smaller 30 caliber I would get a 7.62x39 unless I only wanted to shoot it suppressed.

 

[Walkalong]

When my suppressor paperwork finally goes through

If I ever get around to doing the paperwork needed, it will be a suppressed 300 BLK SBR. And of course then I would have to add a SBR suppressed 9MM upper.

 

[Walkalong]

Light, fast, accurate, & fun. Would be perfectly suited to self defense.

 

[someguy2800]

I have about 100 rounds down the tube on my 300 blackout and I like it alot. The only bullets I have shot in it so far are some pulled 125gr Hornady HP's, and some 195 grain coated lead from SNS.

I tried a few loads with H110 with the cast bullets looking for subsonic shooting and could not get it to be both subsonic, and cycle the action. I'll get back to testing some more with that with different powders once I get a suppressor.

On the subsonic side with the 125 hornady's, I'm getting 2300 FPS with H110 and 2400 FPS with Lilgun from a 16" barrel, which is exactly the same as 7.62x39 factory ammo. It has functioned 100% for me so far and is very accurate. I find is much more satisfying to shoot than my 223 upper. It hits alot harder on the steels, trajectory is not enough different to care about at the ranges I shoot (mostly 200 yards), just as easy to reload as anything else. Brass was not that difficult or time consuming to make. 308 bullets are more expensive but its not enough difference to break the bank compared to the 68 and 75 grain bullets I prefer in 223. Whats not to like? After shooting this a bit I think a 7.62x39 AR would also be alot of fun to shoot if you can make it reliable, but I think I would rather just get an AK.

 

[Jackal]

I will go deep into .300blk when ammo comes down to sub .30 cent per round. I just cant justify spending more on .300 than .308 fmj.

 

[HankC]

Also out of a 223 case one has pretty easy and accurate wildcats that provide extra performance and are affordable and reliable like the 6mm-223, 6mm tcu and 25-45.
It doesn't get easier than that and those give more power and momentum on the target with minimum investment.
The 223 case itself has been evolving and there are some new powders and bullets that perform really well although one cannot beat the 6mm and 270 in hunting bullet
assortment from light varmints to 120gr for the 6.8.

And 277 Wolverine! A 6.8 in 223 case, abundant cheap brass with near 6.8 SPC performance. Now in the public domain, just give it a couple more years!

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I'm sure 300 BO will do one of two things - get cheaper or disappear.

I’m pretty sure it’s here to stay at least as long as 223 and 308 exist. And last I heard neither are scheduled for obsolescence any time soon.

So if I understand things, one can cut a 223 case, run it through a die and now we have 300 BO cases! Add primer, the right powder and a 308 bullet and we’re good to go as far as ammo (if you reload).

So as long as dies are made 300 BO is here to stay.