300 blackout
- Thread starter law051
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If you've spent the money on it already why are you asking people's opinions?
They're going to fall into 3 groups anyway -
"What a waste of money"
"Whatever ya like"
"What a great round/firearm"
OTOH, if you'll tell us what "one" means by "picked one up" (I'm assuming some sort of firearm) folks might give more feedback than that.
What type firearm? Bolt rifle, AR rifle, AR pistol, bolt pistol?
What length barrel? 16 on rifle or 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, or 6 on a pistol?
Have you shot it?
What do you have for a source of the more expensive ammunition? You can shoot 5 5.56 for the cost of most single .300 rounds.
They're going to fall into 3 groups anyway -
"What a waste of money"
"Whatever ya like"
"What a great round/firearm"
OTOH, if you'll tell us what "one" means by "picked one up" (I'm assuming some sort of firearm) folks might give more feedback than that.
What type firearm? Bolt rifle, AR rifle, AR pistol, bolt pistol?
What length barrel? 16 on rifle or 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, or 6 on a pistol?
Have you shot it?
What do you have for a source of the more expensive ammunition? You can shoot 5 5.56 for the cost of most single .300 rounds.
jamesinalaska
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Essentially a .45 ACP in an expensive rifle. Why not practice and learn how to shoot your government .45 really really well?
There's nothing wrong with it that's not wrong with every other cartridge in somebody's eyes somewhere. I generally do research before the sale, but you've got a gun that fires a decent cartridge with decent (though uninspiring) ballistics. It certainly has its place; some people love and some don't.
For me there are better rifle rounds, but that's nothing but personal preference.
Go shoot your rifle and enjoy it.
For me there are better rifle rounds, but that's nothing but personal preference.
Go shoot your rifle and enjoy it.
RustyShackelford
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.300whisper .....
I've read and heard the .300aac-blackout is sometimes called the .300whisper.
Both calibers can be fired thru the same rifle barrel but there are slight or minor differences with the ballistics.
Kinda like the 5.56x45mm(5.56mmNATO) and the .223 Remington. Or the 7.62mmNATO & the .308 caliber.
S&W markets a M&P rifle now in .300whisper but the website specs state it can also use the .300aacblackout.
I see Ruger now offers a Mini 14 in .300aac-blackout. That's a good choice IMO for the target shooter or casual shooting sports enthusiast.
I've read and heard the .300aac-blackout is sometimes called the .300whisper.
Both calibers can be fired thru the same rifle barrel but there are slight or minor differences with the ballistics.
Kinda like the 5.56x45mm(5.56mmNATO) and the .223 Remington. Or the 7.62mmNATO & the .308 caliber.
S&W markets a M&P rifle now in .300whisper but the website specs state it can also use the .300aacblackout.
I see Ruger now offers a Mini 14 in .300aac-blackout. That's a good choice IMO for the target shooter or casual shooting sports enthusiast.
Theohazard
Member
No, that's not accurate at all. A supersonic 300 Blackout round is very similar to a .30-30 or a 7.62x39mm. Sure, its subsonic loadings have a similar muzzle energy to a .45 ACP, but the bullets have a much better ballistic coefficient and therefore they have a much better range.jamesinalaska said:
.300 WHISPER was developed by JD Jones quite awhile back, and principally because it's a good short barrel round with a silencer. The ORIGINAL concept was as a work around to 3Gun rules in the 1980's that required .30 cal cartridges as a means to exclude the AR15 from competition. In those days it was relegated to poodleshooter class as real men used .308 battle rifles like the FNFAL. Most competitors showed up with M1A's as they were quite a bit more affordable, with the rare HK91.
Once JD Jones worked out the optimal application, tho, it languished as the market simply didn't consider SBR's or silencers as being appropriate. They were highly restricted and difficult to acquire, the cartridge itself not available as a commercial loading much. Since it was commercial only the 3Gun shooters ignored it for cheap surplus, once 5.56 was allowed in the rules.
And so it stayed, until AAC and Remington needed something to churn sales and be a market competitor to 6.8SPC (which was SAAMI sponsored by Remington,) and 6.5 Grendel. AAC "lifted" the specs, which is done frequently in the market, and recreated it as .300 Blackout. Exactly the same thing had been done a year or so previously when Les Baer "invented" the .264LBC - a virtual 6.5 Grendel copy.
.300 Blackout offers the marketing plus of using everything the same in an AR build except the barrel. So it appears as if it will be "just as cheap" as a 5.56 build, which is the point to the claim for those most likely to opt for it early on. That advantage means that GI bolts and magazines work with it, which can't be said for 6.8 or 6.5.
Mostly a moot point as many firearms use proprietary parts anyway and a lot of shooters expect no interchangeability at all. It's just a unique factor with the widespread adoption of the AR15 - and it's not really all that Lego like anyway.
The ballistics of the .300 are definitely biased to short barrel use as it's best application, out of a 16" barrel it's not exemplary. Supersonic rounds don't rate as fast or travel as far, the trajectory has more drop. In terms of hunting, the point blank range is shorter, meaning it won't go as far and hit as accurately holding dead on the target. It takes more holdover at longer ranges and loses more speed and power than others do.
Entirely a factor of a bigger, blunter bullet. The overall loaded length of a cartridge that can fit into the AR15 mag well forces some constraints - a look in comparison to the others shows that you either trade off bullet length, or case length. If you attempt a long aerodynamic bullet, like the 6.5mm, you have to shorten the case - and that usually forces it to get fatter. There is a limit to how much you can go with that as the bolt face is only so large.
.300BO is basically the opposite of 6.5 Grendel - big short fat bullet in a long case vs long skinny bullet in a short fat case. 6.8SPC is about in the middle. Each has it's optimal characteristics and was developed for specific, different purposes. Choose which fits your application. Keep that in mind - .300BO is on the short range, higher power at the muzzle but not long distance end of the spectrum. Nobody is banging away at 800m targets with it and doing well, and it was never intended for it. Despite it's early 3Gun origins, the longer distance performance of .300BO quickly falls behind 6.8 and 6.5 in that respective order.
Shoot it and enjoy it, but don't expect cheap ammo, and it won't disappoint used within it's limits.
Once JD Jones worked out the optimal application, tho, it languished as the market simply didn't consider SBR's or silencers as being appropriate. They were highly restricted and difficult to acquire, the cartridge itself not available as a commercial loading much. Since it was commercial only the 3Gun shooters ignored it for cheap surplus, once 5.56 was allowed in the rules.
And so it stayed, until AAC and Remington needed something to churn sales and be a market competitor to 6.8SPC (which was SAAMI sponsored by Remington,) and 6.5 Grendel. AAC "lifted" the specs, which is done frequently in the market, and recreated it as .300 Blackout. Exactly the same thing had been done a year or so previously when Les Baer "invented" the .264LBC - a virtual 6.5 Grendel copy.
.300 Blackout offers the marketing plus of using everything the same in an AR build except the barrel. So it appears as if it will be "just as cheap" as a 5.56 build, which is the point to the claim for those most likely to opt for it early on. That advantage means that GI bolts and magazines work with it, which can't be said for 6.8 or 6.5.
Mostly a moot point as many firearms use proprietary parts anyway and a lot of shooters expect no interchangeability at all. It's just a unique factor with the widespread adoption of the AR15 - and it's not really all that Lego like anyway.
The ballistics of the .300 are definitely biased to short barrel use as it's best application, out of a 16" barrel it's not exemplary. Supersonic rounds don't rate as fast or travel as far, the trajectory has more drop. In terms of hunting, the point blank range is shorter, meaning it won't go as far and hit as accurately holding dead on the target. It takes more holdover at longer ranges and loses more speed and power than others do.
Entirely a factor of a bigger, blunter bullet. The overall loaded length of a cartridge that can fit into the AR15 mag well forces some constraints - a look in comparison to the others shows that you either trade off bullet length, or case length. If you attempt a long aerodynamic bullet, like the 6.5mm, you have to shorten the case - and that usually forces it to get fatter. There is a limit to how much you can go with that as the bolt face is only so large.
.300BO is basically the opposite of 6.5 Grendel - big short fat bullet in a long case vs long skinny bullet in a short fat case. 6.8SPC is about in the middle. Each has it's optimal characteristics and was developed for specific, different purposes. Choose which fits your application. Keep that in mind - .300BO is on the short range, higher power at the muzzle but not long distance end of the spectrum. Nobody is banging away at 800m targets with it and doing well, and it was never intended for it. Despite it's early 3Gun origins, the longer distance performance of .300BO quickly falls behind 6.8 and 6.5 in that respective order.
Shoot it and enjoy it, but don't expect cheap ammo, and it won't disappoint used within it's limits.
A Pause for the Coz
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Whaaaat?? Come on man...
I have a 45acp carbine and I can attest it can not push a round out at 2100 fps and hit inside of 2 inches at 200 yards. My 300 Black out can.
Nor am I taking my 45 deer hunting.
So what you really meant to say was.
The 300 Black out with heavy subs can do every thing a 45 acp carbine can do, Plus do 95% of what a 30-30 or 7.62x39 can do with supersonic 125 gr loads.
Right?
Oh and my Ar 15 in 300 Black cost me $500. I have more than that in one of my 45's
Or were you just passing air?
A Pause for the Coz
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Most of what Tierod said I agree with.
Except there is a flip side.
I think allot of people get too stuck trying to compare the 300 Black Out to 308 win class rifles.
Its not that kind of rifle.
If on the other hand your the kinda guy who would have loved to have a M1 carbine for bumming around and maybe some hunting. before they cost $800.
This package will do that in spades.
Thats the role it fills in my world any way.
Its a carbine on steroids.
Plus it does Subs!!!!
Also if your a cheap skate like me.
Using mil surplus brass and cast bullets. I can reload for about $2.50 a box of 20.
Just got done reloading 3000 of them for my spring fun.
Cant do that with a 6.8 or a 308 or even a sks with cheap steel cased ammo.
There just seems to be no middle ground with the 300 Black.
You ether think its the best idea EVER!!!
Or you cant under stand why any one would ever want one.
I obviously fall into that 1st group. I saw the potential of this before it was ever released. Might have had some thing to do with the 10,000 5.56 cases I have stashed.
If I need more and want to really reach out and touch some thing. I take out the AR10 in 308 win and use that.
Guess what gun gets shot the most though?
Except there is a flip side.
I think allot of people get too stuck trying to compare the 300 Black Out to 308 win class rifles.
Its not that kind of rifle.
If on the other hand your the kinda guy who would have loved to have a M1 carbine for bumming around and maybe some hunting. before they cost $800.
This package will do that in spades.
Thats the role it fills in my world any way.
Its a carbine on steroids.
Plus it does Subs!!!!
Also if your a cheap skate like me.
Using mil surplus brass and cast bullets. I can reload for about $2.50 a box of 20.
Just got done reloading 3000 of them for my spring fun.
Cant do that with a 6.8 or a 308 or even a sks with cheap steel cased ammo.
There just seems to be no middle ground with the 300 Black.
You ether think its the best idea EVER!!!
Or you cant under stand why any one would ever want one.
I obviously fall into that 1st group. I saw the potential of this before it was ever released. Might have had some thing to do with the 10,000 5.56 cases I have stashed.
If I need more and want to really reach out and touch some thing. I take out the AR10 in 308 win and use that.
Guess what gun gets shot the most though?
BSA1
member
I is a excellent candidate for a suppresser.
TRX
Member
The old story on SSK's web site was that the .300 Whisper was designed for long range shooting with 260 grain bullets. They used to have some nice ballistic tables up, showing how the .308 was faster and flatter at short range, and how the high drag of supersonic flight slowed it rapidly, crossing over with the .300 at longer ranges. Sort of a "tortoise and hare" thing. They claimed the .300 was more accurate overall since it never had to drop through the transition to subsonic and the extra weight made it less susceptible to wind drift.
That mostly fell by the wayside when buyers favored the supersonic loads or subsonics with lighter bullets.
That mostly fell by the wayside when buyers favored the supersonic loads or subsonics with lighter bullets.
cat_IT_guy
Member
I think of myself as a caliber collector as much as a gun collector. I like variety, and I like new and different rounds and shooting as many as I can. But my take on the BO is that its doesnt really have much going for if you are "lucky" enough to live in a no-suppresors-allowed state like IL (I have the "pleasure" of living in such a state...). So it doesnt really appeal to me. If i didnt live in IL? Heck yea, I think a BO in a suppressed little carbine would be awesome.
kimberkid
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I'd like to know a little more about what you bought before I make any comments ... But here goes anyway
A while back I picked up a 16" KAC upper for my KAC E3 Mod1 ... I'm a reloader of 223 & 308 so I thought of it as giving me some options but after developing several different loads my feelings were kinda "eh".
So then I bought a 10" upper and bought a couple boxes of sub-sonic ammo ... Took it out and shot it suppressed, and thought "kinda cool" but "eh".
I really like the commonality of components and I'm sure I'll eventually shoot up the components I have for it but to me it's a round that has its place ... but I really don't have a use for it other than plinking, paper ... range toy toy kinda stuff as my body is falling apart and I can't do the things I used to do.
I do wonder though if our military/LEO wouldn't benefit from the larger caliber and be able to keep the familure M-16 platform with only a barrel change and have the benefit of the wider range of effective ammo selection for CQB and 100-200 range than the 5.56 offers because we all know that when you get the 5.56/.223 down to sub-sonic levels you might as well be shooting 22LR.
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Theohazard
Member
I agree with hso. This isn't much of a discussion thread considering you're refusing to answer some basic questions. Heck, we don't even know what type of firearm is being discussed here, let alone the make and model. We also have no idea what you plan to use the firearm for.law051 said:
This is a discussion forum. But when the OP provides zero information about the firearm being discussed other than caliber, there's not much to discuss other than just talk about that caliber. And that's been done here plenty enough already.
law051, I've been considering 300BLK, can you tell me about yours?
How does it shoot?
Do you reload for it?
Is it an AR pattern?
What is the recoil like?
I have an unbuilt lower just begging to be made into something...
MachIVshooter
Member
.300 BLK is a good round, but you have to calibrate your expectations to appreciate it; the cartridge is most definitely not a .308 in an AR-15 chassis.
IT very closely approximates the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm soviet round, but it does so in a cartridge that feeds well through an AR-15 magazine well and uses .308" bullets, which gives one a much wider selection of pills to send down range. It is also, as mentioned, optimized for shorter barrels, using either fast rifle powders or magnum pistol powders. While the 7.62x39 will slightly eclipse the .300 blk in a 16" tube, they are practically identical performers from 8-12" barrels.
Obviously, suppressed use is one of it's greatest attributes. Yes, in terms of simple KE, it is similar to a .45 ACP. So what's the advantage? Well, for one, a 30 round .45 ACP stick mag is a good bit longer than a 30 round GI mag. Secondly, the .300 BO still uses gas operation, so doesn't require a heavy bolt as a blowback design does.
However, the most obvious advantage is that you can switch out to a super sonic loading that carries 3x the energy of a .45 ACP with a much flatter trajectory and much better armor defeating capabilities, and this requires only a fresh magazine. For the men and women who do the dangerous stuff on our behalf, this is a very obvious advantage. When they no longer need to run silent (and a quality suppressor with .300 BLK subs is very nearly movie quiet), they can take the can off, and now they have a compact weapon that is still able to engage the enemy at 200, 300 yards or more. Good luck doing that with an MP5 or other subgun.
For civilian use? As already stated, the fact that you needn't buy special magazines or bolts is a great attribute. And while we don't have the same parameters for suppressed and supersonic use as the men and women who use their guns professionally in very bad places, it's a rifle that is just as good for popping a deer at a couple hundred yards as it is doing 3 gun/carbine competition or just having suppressed fun at the range.
IT very closely approximates the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm soviet round, but it does so in a cartridge that feeds well through an AR-15 magazine well and uses .308" bullets, which gives one a much wider selection of pills to send down range. It is also, as mentioned, optimized for shorter barrels, using either fast rifle powders or magnum pistol powders. While the 7.62x39 will slightly eclipse the .300 blk in a 16" tube, they are practically identical performers from 8-12" barrels.
Obviously, suppressed use is one of it's greatest attributes. Yes, in terms of simple KE, it is similar to a .45 ACP. So what's the advantage? Well, for one, a 30 round .45 ACP stick mag is a good bit longer than a 30 round GI mag. Secondly, the .300 BO still uses gas operation, so doesn't require a heavy bolt as a blowback design does.
However, the most obvious advantage is that you can switch out to a super sonic loading that carries 3x the energy of a .45 ACP with a much flatter trajectory and much better armor defeating capabilities, and this requires only a fresh magazine. For the men and women who do the dangerous stuff on our behalf, this is a very obvious advantage. When they no longer need to run silent (and a quality suppressor with .300 BLK subs is very nearly movie quiet), they can take the can off, and now they have a compact weapon that is still able to engage the enemy at 200, 300 yards or more. Good luck doing that with an MP5 or other subgun.
For civilian use? As already stated, the fact that you needn't buy special magazines or bolts is a great attribute. And while we don't have the same parameters for suppressed and supersonic use as the men and women who use their guns professionally in very bad places, it's a rifle that is just as good for popping a deer at a couple hundred yards as it is doing 3 gun/carbine competition or just having suppressed fun at the range.
Can't you just leave the can on? I'm not very familiar with suppressors.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
A Pause for the Coz said:
Okay, Red Herring on the field.
You aren't just going to go from shooting 125gr @ 2100 fps to 220gr @ 1100 fps. You have to rezero the gun between switching loads or you won't hit anything.
Second, you may have gotten a basic non-free floated upper without a bolt & carrier assembly or sights.... or you may have gotten one heck of a buddy deal, but your average person is no way getting a complete .300BO rifle for $500.
Sunray
Member
Yet another answer to an unasked question. Runs 110 to 230 grain .308" bullets at relatively low velocities. Bit under 2400 FPS for a 110 and 230 max loads a bit under 1100 fps.
Since you have already bought the thing buy as much brass as you can afford and dies now. Even if you don't reload now. Marketing types think nothing of discontinuing stuff(Remington only makes brass seasonally now) with zero regard for existing customers. Having brass and dies makes that issue go away. (Have a .41 AE BHP barrel that'd be an odd paperweight now if I hadn't bought the 500 cases and the dies away back when I bought the barrel.)
Suppressors aren't legal everywhere(and haven't been legal for hunting where they are legal now, very long.) so discussing how great a particular cartridge is with 'em is kind of moot.
Since you have already bought the thing buy as much brass as you can afford and dies now. Even if you don't reload now. Marketing types think nothing of discontinuing stuff(Remington only makes brass seasonally now) with zero regard for existing customers. Having brass and dies makes that issue go away. (Have a .41 AE BHP barrel that'd be an odd paperweight now if I hadn't bought the 500 cases and the dies away back when I bought the barrel.)
Suppressors aren't legal everywhere(and haven't been legal for hunting where they are legal now, very long.) so discussing how great a particular cartridge is with 'em is kind of moot.
You still haven't explained to anyone what you have and that makes the responses theoretical instead of addressing your choice. Are you going to keep everyone in the dark?
There are .300 pistols in semi and bolt and people have very different opinions about them. Opinions are far wider for rifles. Then there are the suppressed .300 folks.
I have an 11.5" 7.62x39 AR pistol with as well as the .300 AR pistol. Everything I researched on the .300 made an AR rifle very questionable, but the barrel lengths between 8 and 12 inches all showed data that was very encouraging.
If you enjoy reloading the .300 becomes even more fun because of the opportunity to tinker with the rounds and tuning them to your gun. If you don't, they're more expensive to run unless you're lucky to have a good supplier. I have the good fortune to have a friend that runs a small specialty ammunition manufacturing operation and he's tweaked his super and sub ammo to run well out of a 9" .300 whether suppressed or not (challenging).
I will suppress the .300 to get the most fun out of it.
I apologize for not adding more its a 300 blackout, ar platform. Its black rain with a 16" barrel. I have only fired one mag through it just to sight it in ( at 100 yards). Its a 125 grain bullet that's I'm sending through it now, unsure if that's the best to use or not.
I've only had it a few weeks, yes its an ar platform and the ammo I have now is what came with it. I like the fact that I can switch the barrel and have it set up for a 5.56.
I just finished a .458 SOCOM build, but I was on the fence between that and 300 BLK. Building an upper in 300 BLK may be the answer.
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