300AAC + Trail Boss; dangerous Hodgdon data?

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berettaprofessor

berettaprofessor

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I got a whim tonight to try a few Trail Boss loads in 300AAC; I noticed the other day it was listed under the 150 Hornady loads in the 2018 Hodgdon Annual. But I ran into some conflicts:

First, the data in the 2018 manual lists TrailBoss from a minimum of 6.8 grains to 7.8(c)grains and an OAL of 2.235. That has to be wrong, however. The 6.8 grains fill the case to the brim (and thus would be severely compressed with a 150 grain bullet)...and the 7.8 grains won't even fit in the 300AAC case without overflowing! Also, the OAL of 2.235 listed for the 150 grain bullets leaves the cannelure on the 150 SST and FMJ/BT bullets way out of the case...you need an OAL of under 2.100 to seat to cannelure.

Second, the Hodgdon website lists no minimum load and a maximum load of 6.0 grains of TrailBoss for that bullet and the same OAL of 2.235. Even just 6.0 grains fills that case pretty full. Tonight, I decided to stay low and loaded 5 rounds of 5.5 grains of Trailboss with an OAL of 2.100 to try in a pistol AR. If I don't blow up the pistol this weekend, I'll report on the rounds back here.

So, has anyone out there tried TrailBoss in 300 Blackout, and particularly with a 150 grain bullet? What was your load? What were your results (and from what length barrel)?
 
https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf
e. If you don't see Trail Boss data for your favorite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications: Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use! Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load. Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!
Click to expand...
I never used Trail Boss. Good Luck.
 
My father-in-law did it for fun one day. I think it was only one round. We put it at the end of the mag (1st round in) in case of squib. It was an 8" barrel.

I can't remember the load, I'll try to remember to ask him, but it was a lighter bullet grain and pretty full case capacity.

The recoil was so light I'd be worri3d about relying on it in case of a sauib, but it locked the action back and fired with no issue.
 
joneb said:
I would start with a 75% case fill of TB. I don't think compressing TB is a good idea.
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yes this i called them one time for data and the rep said 75% case fill is the start. never compress the psi goes very high the rep said they had a 308 win tested years ago when tb came out and with 10% compression it when over 100,000 cup.
 
I use H110 at 16 grains plus over the max (16.*) in my Blackout behind a 150 grain FMJ. I use it in a bolt gun and it works fine in my rifle. I use Trail boss in a lot of things. Always lead. I used it last week in my Trap Door.
 
From the Hodgdon link above.
Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting
load.
Click to expand...
This may not work well with the (Hodgdon Data) OP's 6 gr loading? A starting load of 4.2 gr may leave the bullet stuck in the barrel.? Less likely in his pistol.
At a maximun of 6 grs, velocity is only 871 fps. 16" barrel rifle.

Or am i missing something?

berettaprofessor said:
Second, the Hodgdon website lists no minimum load and a maximum load of 6.0 grains of TrailBoss for that bullet and the same OAL of 2.235. Even just 6.0 grains fills that case pretty full. Tonight, I decided to stay low and loaded 5 rounds of 5.5 grains of Trailboss with an OAL of 2.100 to try in a pistol AR. If I don't blow up the pistol this weekend, I'll report on the rounds back here.
Click to expand...
The 5.5 gr is about a 10% reduction from maximum. Should be OK.

Trail Boss is dangerous. Imo. Follow Hodgdon data, not pdf link info.
 
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This doesn't seem right. 1.3 gr increase in powder raised pressure a lot. Velocity almost the same. But not an issue in a rifle with a working PSI of around 55,000. 20180815_090018.jpg
 
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As other have already said its not a good plan to compress Trailboss. That said in long skinny cases those big perforated flakes do not immediately stack very nicely and will take up considerable more room than they should. I have found that if you drop a charge of Trailboss that you can tap the side of the case and the powder will settle, alot. Don't compress it but you can get alot more in a case if you take the time to tap the case to get the flakes to settle.
 
+1 what mcb said. Trail Boss settles a lot when you shake the case. That being said, there's very little difference between Trail Boss, Clays, Red Dot other than the former takes up a lot of space for those paranoid about double charging a handgun case and not minding the extra cost of the powder. The gas generated by whatever powder you use is going to be roughly based on the number of grains burned. I've tried the 3 powders and they are very close in terms of velocity generated in low recoil handgun and rifle loads except TB is tough to fit into small cases like 9mm and 40S&W to generated enough recoil to cycle the action.
 
The Hodgdon information on using TB in rifle cartridges says to fill the case with TB up to the base of the bullet. This is max.

I've read on the forums, multiple times, about not compressing TB. However, I do remember seeing some load data in the Lyman manual where they said the max load was compressed. I would not hesitate to load up rounds with 100% case fill - just not compressed.

The apparent error on the Hodgdon data is one reason why I like to consult load data from as many sources as possible before I start working up loads. Then, start low and work up.
 
troy fairweather said:
yes this i called them one time for data and the rep said 75% case fill is the start. never compress the psi goes very high the rep said they had a 308 win tested years ago when tb came out and with 10% compression it when over 100,000 cup.
Click to expand...
It is nice to hear that they are finally, in some instances, offering up some details about the compression prohibition. When I first started loading with it a few years ago, I failed to find mention of anyone who had gotten a straight answer from them on the issue.

We all, naturally, assumed that compression could/would result in a pressure spike, but the company would never state that.
 
243winxb said:
From the Hodgdon link above.
This may not work well with the (Hodgdon Data) OP's 6 gr loading? A starting load of 4.2 gr may leave the bullet stuck in the barrel.? Less likely in his pistol.
At a maximun of 6 grs, velocity is only 871 fps. 16" barrel rifle.

Or am i missing something?

The 5.5 gr is about a 10% reduction from maximum. Should be OK.

Trail Boss is dangerous. Imo. Follow Hodgdon data, not pdf link info.
Click to expand...

So, you have never used Trail Boss and you claim it's dangerous.........
 
Update: Chrony'ed the TrailBoss 300AAC load; 5.5 grains of Trail Boss behind a 150 grain Hornady FMJBT, OAL2,100. Average FPS 798.1, SD 39.2 from an 8" AR pistol. Very very soft shooting load but, as oldfortyfiveauto said, it won't cycle, so it makes it a single shot. I initially thought I had a pierced primer in 1/5 rounds, but after tumbling there were no pierced primers on any AAC round in the tumblr so it just have just been dirt in the primer impact crater.

I doubt I'll make any more. It was reasonably accurate from a handheld 15 yards and soft shooting, but since it won't cycle, not much need for it.
 
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I personally like trailboss. I use it in a 45 acp load, that cycles my 1911 and is the only powder I have found after trial and error that over flows the case with a double charge in 45 acp.
 
So, you have never used Trail Boss and you claim it's dangerous.........
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from but just because you use something doesn’t make it safe and just because you don’t doesn’t mean it’s not safe.

I have never loaded an overdose of TB and it’s been fine for me. However, I have never used heroine but I think an overdose would be dangerous.
 
kidneyboy said:
So, you have never used Trail Boss and you claim it's dangerous.....
Click to expand...
My main concern is that the bullet may not make it out the barrel, loading 4.2 grs.
243winxb said:
A starting load of 4.2 gr may leave the bullet stuck in the barrel.? Less likely in his pistol.
Click to expand...
Hodgdon load data list 6 grs. , no starting load.

Using the formula in their pdf, may not work well.

The study of a subject is beneficial, when one has many years experience in handloading. The results may be know, without testing.

Prove me wrong. Load some with 4.2 grs. In a rifle. :)
 
243winxb said:
My main concern is that the bullet may not make it out the barrel, loading 4.2 grs.

Hodgdon load data list 6 grs. , no starting load.

Using the formula in their pdf, may not work well.

The study of a subject is beneficial, when one has many years experience in handloading. The results may be know, without testing.

Prove me wrong. Load some with 4.2 grs. In a rifle. :)
Click to expand...

Your lack of experience with Trail Boss negates your years of experience. Asking me to prove your speculations wrong is ridiculous. Do your own work before making unfounded statements.
 
I've used Trail Boss for 45acp to 416 Rigby, with lead, plated, and jacketed projectiles.

I would bet it would benefit from a drop tube to achieve heavier loads, but with larger rifle loads (7mmMauser, 30-06, 375 H&H, .416 Rigby) I just follow Hodgens directions and use ~85% of a case volume as measured from the bottom of the seated projectile .

Absolutely wonderful reduced rifle loads, with reasonable accuracy, and a good powder for beginning pistol reloaders with case full loads that are easy to verify and impossible to double charge, all at very moderate pressures.

I would treat 300 whisper like a pistol cartridge when using TB, the drop tube will let you get more in without compressing the powder.
 
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WARNING: According to Hodgdon/IMR Trail Boss should not be compressed so I'm at a,loss as to why their yearly manual is supplying TH load data with compressed loads. I read the burn speed for Trail Boss is controlled by the coating on the extended surfaces supplied by the donut shape of the powder. Breaking the donuts up causes erratic pressures and can be dangerous.

I think an email to Hodgdon is in order.
 
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