.303-vs-30-06 which is better

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I don't know if this thread is still being followed but here goes... I have a No 4 Mk 1 Longbranch (303 Lee Enfield) that was my fathers and is a favorite of mine. That rifle saw action in Europe during WWII, has been used in winter in the high Arctic, and (to my knowledge) never let the old man down...or me for that matter. On the other hand...I also have 3 x 30-06's that I am very fond of. Both cals are capable of bagging anything N. America has to offer so my thought is that the choice comes down to the rifle...more than the cal. The Enfields were designed for war and more specifically trench warfare...and as a result were built with very forgiving tollerances. You can drop them in the mud, have debris fall into the action, use them in extremely cold whether snow...sand etc etc. In other words if you are humping through thick bush and expect to be covered in leaves, pine needles etc etc...or out in -40 weather...the Enfield is probably the better choice. In Canada, it remains the standard weapon for our Inuit Ranger patrolers in the far north. The newer fancier rifles just can't take that kind of cold or punishment. Otherwise, I prefer the 06 just because of the ammo choices available and that little bit of extra slap they deliver. Lets face it...most hunter shots are less than 200 yards. Especially in thick bush where the a 100 yard shot would be quite long. Most bush shots are considerably less than that...maybe 20-50 yards. At those distances....ballistics don't really matter all that much and most 30 cal rifles will probably pass through a 10-12 inch spruce tree and still kill the moose on the other side.
 
well poweful rifles on go right tru the animals ,, a saw mooses going down faster with a 30-30 winchester that with a 300 mag its too powerful
 
30-06 simply for the much more modern hunter friendly platforms it's avalible in.

If you don't want a scope the SMLE is fine, but that being said a marlin 336 fills the same role quite nicely with much cheaper ammunition

Bursh gun refers to thew rifle package it's self, there is no such thing as brush bustin cartridges.

Requirements for a brush gun

easy to handle & carry
a finish you don't care about
fast on target and followup
preferable with enough horsepower to not need that second shot and preclude tracking
 
30-06 deffinatly, if you forget you ammo, its available everywhere, in brush, a 180gr roundnose will do well, in open, a spitzer of the same weight will be exelent
ken
 
Having hunted elk in oregon pretty much every year since 1994 with a 30-06 I can say it works just fine and the loads availble to non hand loaders like me mean you can get a good quility 180 grain bullet that will shoot good in your rifle. Elk in western Oregon are BIG, bigger and heavier than eastern oregon by a fair margin. This is thick countyr and hard to fallow wounded game so I say stick with the 06 and a good bullet and keep shooting until it falls down, if it gets up shoot it again. I shoot a 300 win now and haven't noticed any real dif in how the elk die but I haven't shot an elk past 340 yds with eathier and at those ranges I don't think there is much dif. IMHO having killed over a dozen elk in oregon eastern and western.
 
Personally, I would take the rifle that I shoot the best. If it turns out to be an enfield .303 that's fine. It will cleanly kill any elk with the right bullet and shot placement. The biggest factor is you're going to give up some range to the 06.
 
The 30-06 is a superior cartridge for most purposes. For the most part it's faster and more powerful. Cartridges are available almost everywhere and with a very wide selection. There is more and better surplus available for it. It's rimless and therefore less likely to jam during feeding and if you reload there is a much better selection of bullets available for it.

IMO, the only good reason to choose .303 over 30-06 is because you really want the rifle that's chambered in .303.
 
This is thick countyr and hard to fallow wounded game so I say stick with the 06 and a good bullet and keep shooting until it falls down, if it gets up shoot it again.
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Very good advice. In fact, I recommend practicing from the standing unsupported position and always work the bolt from the shoulder. It should be natural to throw the bolt when you shoot -- the rifle reloads itself without you thinking. And if there's still hair in your sights, keep shooting.

I've known more than one guy to have an elk bound away, or jump up after falling -- while he stood there looking at it with a fired case in the chamber.
 
.303 is older cartridge with less power

The British .303 is of the same vintage and power as the old US .30-40 cartridge. The US military adopted the .30-03 and modified it to the .30-06 for enhanced performance based on Spanish-American War experiences. The US did get it right with the 06, it is quite a versatile and capable cartridge with a variety of bullet weights shooting well.
 
Old timers used to claim the .30-40 killed better than the .30-06. And they were right.

Using simple cup-and-core bullets, the long, heavy 220 grain bullet launched at 2,000 fps from a .30-40 opened up on anything, and held together to penetrate well.

Similar 150 grain bullets driven at .30-06 velocities would sometimes shed their cores and perform poorly.

Nowadays, of course, with modern bullets, the .30-06 is a much better choice. But the .30-40 and .303 will still do the job.
 
I have used both the 30-06 and the 303....the 30-06 in the 1903 Springfield and the M1 GARAND and I also have and ENFIELD 303 that I have used for about 25 years. I can tell you that you will see very little difference out to about 400 yards with either weapon. Beyond that the 30-06 retains more energy through the 500 yard mark.

I have also spent much time using the 308 winchester or (7.62mm NATO) round in the M14 military rifle. There is very little difference inside 500 yards between the 30-06 and the 308 and in depends on the projectile weight and load. After 500 yards with a 180 grain projectile the 30-06 will deliver more energy than either the .308 or the .303.

I like the all the afore mentioned weapons and am quite fond of the .303 in a one shot one kill hunting senario. I would certainly choose the GARAND or the M14 over the .303 ENFIELD in battle due to the semi-auto fire power etc. I would also choose the 1903 Springfield as a sniper weapon for the energy and accuracy delivered at a grater distance.

NOTE: If you have a .303 please do use it, you will NOT be disappointed with it's performance. You may have problems finding the loads that you desire as opposed to the 30-06 or .308 but then one can always prepare their own loads. I have managed to find the appropriate rounds for my .303 over the years,(in the U.S.), without difficulty, (last purchase was a month ago..off the shelf), but then no one knows when this may end so get them while you can.

Good Hunting,

RAWGUY
 
The .30-06 is a more versatile catridge, no doubt. That versatility is important only if you plan to exploit it. Do you?
If not, I would go with the rifle I like better and not look back. Those old time cartridges killed lots of animals and the critters don't know it's the 21st century.
 
My own choice is the .30/06 but I would certainly not feel undergunned with a .303. BTW, Lee still makes its "Classic Lee Loader" in .303, if you want to reload on a budget.

I suspect that most posters who have categorically asserted that the .30/06 is better than the .303 for hunting at 200-300 yards likely don't have much, if any, experience with the .303. For practical purposes, there is little to choose between the two cartridges.

While the .30/06 is a better performer and has many different bullet weights available, the advantage is largely theoretical. For actual hunting the .303 is quite capable, which is why it continues to have a wide following in Australia, Canada, N.Z. and South Africa despite the availability of other, more 'modern' calibres.
 
But there were key differences in the M1917 from the original Enfield. They switched over to the .30-06 cartridge because it was ballistically more in line with the design of the rifle. They also moved the sights to the rear. The rifle sent to GB was known as the P14 which still used the .303 cartridge. At the time this cartridge still used black powder too. So there's little wonder the US switched to the .30-06 platform.
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Nope. They switched to the .30-06 for the M1917 because that was the cartridge for U.S. service rifles at that time. The peep sights for both the P14 and M1917 are located in the same place: at the rear of the receiver. And, the .303 British cartridge used smokeless powder (Cordite) and not black powder.

Don
 
It seems to me that the .30-06 has been the subject of more experimentation than any other cartridge used for big game.

I'd say that the modern .30-06 is "better", just because it's been worked with so much by so many.

But maybe I'm just ignorant of what the Commonwealth types have done with the .303 over the years.
 
Don is correct. Although the .303 was originally a black powder cartridge, it used cordite well before the P-14 was introduced. General information available here.

Interesting article: "The All-African .303".
 
The .303 was used all over and it might still be far more common in Canada than the US. But you're in Oregon, you might as well take advantage of the wide variety of off the shelf cartridges available in .30-06.

Now if you SHOOT the .303 better, by all means its no slouch. I hunted witha guy that used a .303 in Colorado chasing elk, and noone ever complained that the round wasn't capable. Thing is the GUY wasn't all that familiar with his sporterized Enfield and iron sights and missed a shot a relatively close range.

Whatever you choose, practice with it as much as you can before setting off on your hunt.
 
Although the .303 was originally a black powder cartridge, it used cordite well before the P-14 was introduced.
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True I have one of the cordite rounds, it's odd because you can shake and not hear the powder (b/c there is none). I don't know if it's worth anything but I keep it for a conversation piece. The .303 has evolved over the years and I think it will be around for a lot longer, but I like the '06 a bit better.
 
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