.308 175 grain Berger VLD IMR 4064

[12guns]

I know how helpful specific searches can be so I wanted to share my results thus far.
I used up all my 2000 mr powder with average at best results. I have moved on to IMR4064 since my uncle has 8lbs of it that I have access to.
Here's my first load:

43.5 grains IMR 4064
175 grain VLD
2.877 OAL
STANDARD CCI 200 primers
Winchester once (or twice) fired brass trimmed to 2.05ish.
44 grains didn't shoot well, so I have now loaded 43.3, 43.5, and 43.7 to see how they do. Pic is of 43.5 with a fairly warm barrel. I'll post results when I have time to shoot. Maybe tomorrow depending on my workload.
Any tips would be most welcomed.
Shot from a Ruger SS Model 77.

 

[12guns]

...dang sideways pics...I keep forgetting lol.

 

[TommyD45]

What distance are you firing from? 100 yards?
Also what is is the scale of the photos? What is the diameter of the black in target? 1 inch?

Tom

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have always said IMR4064 is the best powder for the .308 and it seems to be working well for you too.

 

[12guns]

100 yards from a solid rest. The center black dot is 1". The gun has a polished trigger and lapped bolt. There's nothing else too special about it but is seems to like the 4064. I hope this group will shrink a touch more, but if not this will be my deer load this year.

 

[12guns]

Any guesses on muzzle velocity with the 22" barrel? From what I've read I would guess 2600-2650 fps but hope to shoot through a chronograph next time I'm out.

 

[lonniemike]

Don't be surprised if you get readings closer to 2500.best

 

[12guns]

I'm curious what the MV will turn out...I know 2500 will suffice for deer, but I really hope for more. I should be able to shoot Sunday and I'll report back.

 

[12guns]

Any other thoughts on MV? I've read all over other guys shooting 175/178SMK weigh 41-43 grains of 4064 are getting 2600+ without any problems. I realize that may be out of a longer barrel, but can't help but think mine will be 2600ish, but I honestly don't know.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Any other thoughts on MV? I've read all over other guys shooting 175/178SMK weigh 41-43 grains of 4064 are getting 2600+ without any problems. I realize that may be out of a longer barrel, but can't help but think mine will be 2600ish, but I honestly don't know.

IMO you will probably have to up that charge of 4064 to 45gr to reach 2600 fps. The limited case capacity of the .308 is a fact you just can't get around. It is what it is with heavy bullets. The ability to shoot heavier bullets at good velocities is why I shoot a 30-06 instead, especially from a 22" barrel.

I wouldn't get too hung up on numbers though. Just be sure the bullet you're loading is rated to reliability expand at the velocities you're generating. (tested velocities without guessing) Last time I checked my 30-06 ammo I was generating an AV of 2871 fps with a 165gr bullet. Better yet the accuracy was outstanding. Hard to beat that combination. IMO if velocity is lacking and you're worried you should probably go to a lighter bullet.

 

[12guns]

Right you are. I guess I've spent too much time reading about other peoples velocity with the same charge and bullet weight. Problem is most seem to be with longer barrels that are mostly custom match barrels. I really like the 175 grain and if it shoots as good as I hope for, I'll settle for less velocity...for now. I reeealy wish I could nail Down a load with 2000mr which would give me the best of both worlds, just haven't found that load yet.

 

[DDawg]

I've been loading IMR 4064 in my Savage FCP 308 with great results. I'm shooting 42.5 grns with 168 SMKs.

 

[12guns]

Dawg, what's your muzzle velocity? I'm headed out to shoot tomorrow and expect some good results with the 4064.

 

[scottishkat]

Imr 4064

IMR 4064 is a great choice for .308 win. I notice that the max load for 175 VLD in the berger manual is 42 MV of 2590 froma 24" bbl. I've had my best luck with short bbl guns with AA2520. The berger manual says expect loss of approx 20 FPS per 1".

 

[12guns]

I emailed Berger about their max listed. They said that was their max for an accurate load. IMR lists max of 45.6c, which would be tough to fit for sure! I didn't have any pressure issues with 44 grains but it didn't shoot worth a crap. Thanks for all the input!

 

[12guns]

Shot today with the same load. Accuracy was all over the place and I'm not sure why. The 43.5 grains that grouped about an inch was now 3+". I did scrub the bore to remove some built up copper and I torqued the stock tighter than before based on Rutgers specs. Maybe I over tightened it.
The chronograph showed 2645, 2609, and 2629 for the 43.5 grain charge. I'm happy with MV if I can duplicate the 1" group. Back to the reloading bench for me!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Shot today with the same load. Accuracy was all over the place and I'm not sure why. The 43.5 grains that grouped about an inch was now 3+". I did scrub the bore to remove some built up copper and I torqued the stock tighter than before based on Rutgers specs. Maybe I over tightened it.
The chronograph showed 2645, 2609, and 2629 for the 43.5 grain charge. I'm happy with MV if I can duplicate the 1" group. Back to the reloading bench for me!

NEVER change anything on a rifle when you are developing a load, it might effect the results. More likely though the weather conditions changed from day to day and that's where the difference in group size might have happened.

What was the wind conditions on both days?
What was the temperature on each day?
Was the wind blowing in a different direction both days?
Were you shooting as well both days?
Same bench? Same rest? Same distance?

I think you see what I'm getting at. only a 1/2" difference in groups can easily be attributed to one or more of the factors I just listed.

 

[12guns]

Right you are. Today was much cooler and very windy. I wish in had left the trigger alone, but I'll admit now it's half the weight it was which might be a good thing in the future! At any rate, I'll reshoot these loads later this week. I'll clean with some copper solvent, but won't scrub the bore like last time. By readjusting the stock a touch lighter than this time, maybe things will settle back down. I was pleased with velocity and based on the rifle and shooter, I'll settle for a 1" group to hunt with this year.

 

[lonniemike]

IIRC, the US mil sends their 175's downrange at 2550fps from a 26" barrel Keep experimenting for an accuray sweet spot. best-o-luck

 

[12guns]

Things are getting better. The 43.5 charge shot good with exception of two shots that I'm pretty sure I'm to blame for. I'll reload and shoot tomorrow to confirm my results. I'm seated at 2.877 so I plan to load the same for five rounds, then seat shorter at 2.8 to see how that affects things. Most people say with the 175 grain VLD to seat close to the lands, but my mag length limits me to about 2.877-2.90. Thoughts on shorter vs longer??

 

[12guns]

I think I figured out my problem...too much copper built up in the bore! I had been cleaning between shooting, but only scrubbing briefly and calling it good. Last night I scrubbed the heck out of it over and over at least 10 times wiping clean with a patch each time and using copper removing foam.
Today I hada. MUCH more consistent group. (Ignore the flyer...I'm sure it was shooter error). With a muzzle velocity of 2600-2650 i have found my hunting load. Now I'm off for some ballistics research to figure out where to sight it in.

Oh, details:
IMR4064 43.5 grains
2.877 COAL
Win brass fired two or three times
Trimmed 2.05
Cci 200 primer
Ruger mk2 SS with Nikon BDC on 16x

Thanks for the help! I don't think I can ask for much better from that rifle.

 

[joustin]

I think I figured out my problem...too much copper built up in the bore! I had been cleaning between shooting, but only scrubbing briefly and calling it good. Last night I scrubbed the heck out of it over and over at least 10 times wiping clean with a patch each time and using copper removing foam.
Today I hada. MUCH more consistent group. (Ignore the flyer...I'm sure it was shooter error). With a muzzle velocity of 2600-2650 i have found my hunting load. Now I'm off for some ballistics research to figure out where to sight it in.

Oh, details:
IMR4064 43.5 grains
2.877 COAL
Win brass fired two or three times
Trimmed 2.05
Cci 200 primer
Ruger mk2 SS with Nikon BDC on 16x

Thanks for the help! I don't think I can ask for much better from that rifle.

Here is what the Hornady Ballistic Calc says, I guessed the temp, altitude and humidity. I did not plug in any wind values.

<pre>
Input Variables
Ballistic Coefficient 0.498 
Velocity (ft/s) 2625 
Weight (grains) 175
Maximum Range (yds) 1000 
Interval (yds) 100 
Drag Function G1
Sight Height (inches) 1.5 
Shooting Angle (degrees) 0 
Zero Range (yds) 200
Wind Speed (mph) 0 
Wind Angle (degrees) 90 
Altitude (ft) 1200
Pressure (hg) 29.53 
Temperature (F) 70 
Humidity (%) 0.6

Ballistics Results

Range (yards)	Vel.	Energy(ft lbs) Trajectory(in)	Up(moa)	Up(mils)
Muzzle 		2625 	2677 		-1.5		 0 	0
100 		2460 	2352 		2.1 		-2 	-0.6
200 		2302 	2059 		0 		0 	0
300 		2149 	1795 		-8.7 		2.8 	0.8
400 		2003 	1558 		-24.9 		5.9 	1.7
500 		1862 	1347 		-49.8 		9.5 	2.8
600 		1729 	1161 		-84.8 		13.5 	3.9
700 		1603 	998 		-131.4		17.9 	5.2
800 		1485 	857 		-191.6 		22.9 	6.7
900 		1377 	736 		-267.6 		28.4 	8.3
1000 		1279 	636 		-361.9 		34.6 	10.1
</pre>

 

[12guns]

Sweet, thanks. That's probably pretty stinkin' close!

 

[12guns]

Awesome. I just found Nikon's app for their BDC reticle scopes...entered in my info and wallah!!

 

[12guns]

This is one app I don't mind paying $5 for...