.308 questions

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armoredman

armoredman

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I posted this on CZ Forum as well. It looks like I might be starting to load .308 for myself. I've been making some loads for a buddy with Hornaday 150gr bullets that are absolute tack drivers in his rifle. Now, if the worlds turns JUST the right way, (fingers crossed so hard they hurt), I might gain access to a CZ 600 Alpha in .308. It has a 1-10 twist, 20 inch barrel. I have read that 1-10 twists are more effective with heavier bullets like 168-220 grain. I think 168 grains bullets are rather widely available, but not exactly sure where to start on this endeavor. So...first, purpose.
For starters, this rifle is likely only to be used for target purposes. Longest range I currently have access to is 300 yards. I doubt I will hunt with it, as I am fat, old, and out of shape. truth hurts,. I know, the perils of being an administrator type - we get desk bound.
Optics - none yet, looking at Riton and Acme on the suggestion of a military and police sniper. That type of recommendation I listen to - I have never ever used anything from either company, BUT I hear Acme makes great anvils and rocket skates, coyote approved.
Powder I have right now, off the top of my head, is X-Terminator and TAC. Primers are varied standard and magnums...buying whatever was on the shelf during the plandemic. Brass...I have a bunch of brass my buddy dropped off, a lot of NATO but a lot of random civilian brass, too. I have the capabilities to trim and chamfer and swage out the crimp, so brass isn't an issue. I will run out of powder and primers way before I run out of brass!
Bullets I have are 150gr Hornaday soft point #3031, (those I know exactly), I believe a box of 165 gr LeveRevolution bullets, (the guy didn't know they were really for 30-30), and some Hornaday 110 grains stuff...same guy. He doesn't reload, but I cannot fault someone who wants to donate to the cause. However, I am not limited to these, if I can order or purchase locally.
So, long and short, given the twist and barrel length, what would you suggest/what has worked for you before?
Thank you!
 
Like OP, when loading for 308 deer hunting rounds, I've focused on 150 grain Interlocks, Speer Hot Cor, etc.

When I was looking for components, the guy at Full Circle Reloading in St. Charles handed me a box of 165 grain BT Interlocks and a pound of Varget. "That's all you need".

Plugging paper at distance, I'd be tempted to move on up to 175 grain Sierra Match Kings, as they both work and have been widely available all along. Probably a dozen or more available powders would work with those to get you started.
 
.308 is pretty easy to load for accuracy in a bolt gun. It doesn't have many of the drawbacks loading a long bullet does in an autoloader... and your brass can last significantly longer.

You have standard primers and TAC... that's half the equation right there. My other .308 heavy powder is IMR4064, but there are others, too. X-Terminator might be a little fast for 168grn and above, but I don't have direct experience with it.

Go to your favorite vendor (online or otherwise) and find some 168grn BTHP bullets. If money is an object, Midway (and others) has/can have factory seconds, which work well enough. If you can, it's hard to beat the Sierra MatchKing (SMK.) I probably wouldn't waste primers and powder on your 150grn SP bullets, unless that's all you have. I actually load the Hornady 110grn V-max for my M1a, and I have run them through my Savage bolt gun... it's a fun, low recoiling bullet... but may or may not work well in your 1:10 twist.

As far as your brass, I would segregate by headstamp, find the biggest lot you have, and start working with that. As you probably know, military brass can be thicker/heavier than commercial brass, but not always. Case volume can vary even between the same manufacturer. What you are looking for is consistency. Even a small lot of 50 of the same case will treat you better than a mish-mash of cases... when you are searching for accuracy.

Can't help you much on a scope. I'm cheap... so when I was looking for a good beginners optic, I bought used... a Burris Veracity (?) 4x20 or thereabouts. It certainly works well enough for me. Understand, really good glass is $1000 and UP. You would need to set a budget, and then start looking at your options. I go to OpticsPlanet to do my shopping, their website is pretty good for comparing glass, and they have some good deals now and then if you find something that interests you.
 
I'd get some 168 match bullets from any of the makers, Sierra, Hornady, Nosler, Speer. You can probably find data for Tac, but I'd keep an eye out for a slightly slower power w/r to burn rate, in the 4895-Varget window.
 
Starting a new caliber with mixed matched brass, any ol bullet and whatever powder you can find won’t lead to very good ammunition.

Recommend planning things out a little better and save some frustration.
 
Berger Bullets has this handy little bullet stability calculator that will give you an idea of your bullet's stability in different barrels with different twists. That looks like a nice rifle for a nice price. TAC actually wasn't the best powder for me although it certainly worked. I found Varget to be more useful (of course) and AR Comp to be even better than Varget. The NATO brass is a pain in the butt to work with and for a sweet bolt action target rifle like that, I wouldn't do it. I'd just buy the Lapua brass and save the NATO stuff for your semi-auto rifles. You got me looking at that rifle now.
 
I use IMR 4064 and IMR3031 both in my Ruger Precision, they work very well for me.
 
armoredman said:
I posted this on CZ Forum as well. It looks like I might be starting to load .308 for myself. I've been making some loads for a buddy with Hornaday 150gr bullets that are absolute tack drivers in his rifle. Now, if the worlds turns JUST the right way, (fingers crossed so hard they hurt), I might gain access to a CZ 600 Alpha in .308. It has a 1-10 twist, 20 inch barrel. I have read that 1-10 twists are more effective with heavier bullets like 168-220 grain. I think 168 grains bullets are rather widely available, but not exactly sure where to start on this endeavor. So...first, purpose.
For starters, this rifle is likely only to be used for target purposes. Longest range I currently have access to is 300 yards. I doubt I will hunt with it, as I am fat, old, and out of shape. truth hurts,. I know, the perils of being an administrator type - we get desk bound.
Optics - none yet, looking at Riton and Acme on the suggestion of a military and police sniper. That type of recommendation I listen to - I have never ever used anything from either company, BUT I hear Acme makes great anvils and rocket skates, coyote approved.
Powder I have right now, off the top of my head, is X-Terminator and TAC. Primers are varied standard and magnums...buying whatever was on the shelf during the plandemic. Brass...I have a bunch of brass my buddy dropped off, a lot of NATO but a lot of random civilian brass, too. I have the capabilities to trim and chamfer and swage out the crimp, so brass isn't an issue. I will run out of powder and primers way before I run out of brass!
Bullets I have are 150gr Hornaday soft point #3031, (those I know exactly), I believe a box of 165 gr LeveRevolution bullets, (the guy didn't know they were really for 30-30), and some Hornaday 110 grains stuff...same guy. He doesn't reload, but I cannot fault someone who wants to donate to the cause. However, I am not limited to these, if I can order or purchase locally.
So, long and short, given the twist and barrel length, what would you suggest/what has worked for you before?
Thank you!
Click to expand...

Its usually easy to get a good load for a 308. So many combinations of powder and bullet work well. If your plans for this rifle are mostly targets look at Sierra Match Kings or Berger VLDs. I've shot a lot of 150, 155. 168, 175 and 190 grain bullets. Tac will work but keep your eyes open for Varget, IMR4064 or RL-15. Sort your brass by headstamp and detail prep it. If it shows any promise look at buying some Lapua sometime down the road. I've used both CCI Benchrest Primers and Federal Gold Metal Match and both work well. But truthfully I don't see much if any improvement over those brands standard primers. You might give some thought to buying a competition seating die, something like Redding or Forster.

I don't know anything about those 2 scope brands that you mentioned. I have Nightforce on my Varmint and range rifles.
 
For 308 Winchester, I've settled on IMR 4064 as my go-to powder. It's worked in most loads. In fact, I've only had one dud. I have a lot of those bullets left, so I have to try something else, but it worked for 175 grain Sierra Match Kings, 180 grain Hornady SST, and Speer 168 grain match bullets. I've tried CFE 223 as well, but don't like it for my semi-auto. It's accurate but is a little sketchy in my gas gun. It would be great in a bolt gun though.

I keep my Nato brass separate from the rest and have loads for it that are different from the regular 308 Winchester brass. I don't want to test this for myself, but I hear the cases are thicker and the decreased volume can lead to higher pressures with the same charges.
 
Good combinations in my bolt
155s 42.5 grains of tac at 2.800
165s 45 grains 4064
175 42.5 4064.
Those are 1moa ten shot groups. You can play with seating depth and bullets.
Hard to go wrong with tac, 4895, 4064, and ar-comp. If you see varget it is also well loved. If you plan to go light for caliber and shoot varmints 110 gainers and benchmark is fun.
 
Don't know if OP is ready to pull the trigger today, but if so, Midway is currently showing Varget available in 1 pounders, A4064, A2495 (and several others), plus SMK in 168 and 175 grains.

Always fun to spend someone else's money.
 
DMW1116 said:
For 308 Winchester, I've settled on IMR 4064 as my go-to powder.
Click to expand...

I did, too... at first. My initial shoot-out was between IMRs 4895 and 4064, and 4064 ran away with that. But then I put IMR4064 up against TAC with the 168grn SMK... and TAC beat 4064. I couldn't believe it... in fact, I still don't. Trust but verify... which is what I'm doing now. I scouted out an area in NV where I shoot a lot... I should be able to get 250-300yds out of it... so I'll see how well TAC really stacks up at Christmastime. I do agree, however... IMR4064 is pretty hard to beat in .308 with 150-200grn bullets. :)
 
The 308 has traditionally had a 1:12 twist, but recently many, if not most newer rifles are coming with 1:10 barrels. Some have 1:11. I have examples with all 3. All of mine shoot everything from 150 gr up to 180 gr bullets very well. Don't overthink the barrel twist rate.

The 1:10 is only going to be an advantage when you start shooting bullets 200 gr or heavier, and very few people do that with 308. But there is no downside to using the faster twist with lighter bullets, so manufacturers have started making 1:10 standard just in case someone wants to shoot the heavies.

IME 308 is EASY to load for. Just about every decent bullet I've tried shoots well with every powder I've tried. Some powder will give you a little more velocity. My go-to powder is Varget, but I've had good luck with 4064, and others.

The primary reason for me choosing Varget over others is that it is stable over a wide range of temperatures while many others are not. 4064 is just as accurate and gives me the same velocity. But in temperatures below 20-30 degrees it could be100+fps slower than when at 70 degrees. Or 75-100 fps faster, and overpressure if shot at temps over 100 degrees. Varget will be slower, but only around 20-30 fps slower in the cold and a similar amount faster in the heat.

I've used a lot of different bullets over the years, but really like the Lapua Scenar 155 gr bullets for both punching paper and hunting. That bullet is sold as a match bullet, but too many hunters have made too many impressive kills on game for me to not trust it as a hunting bullet.
 
I get my best results for my VSSF with RE15, SMK 175gr and commercial cases, RP and FC. mil cases open me up to right at 1 MOA. Using standard CCI LR primers. I load 43.1 gr and COL 2.80. This allows regular 800 yd hits on IPSC targets without much effort if I can keep my head in it and relax.
 
armoredman said:
In today's world we get what we can find
Click to expand...
Brass volume varies so much that to avoid inconsistencies seen on the target, I would highly recommend using good or decent brass from one lot number.
No will know if you do not and know one will really care either. We are just helping where we can.
 
Varget and SMK 168 got my best groups.
Also Imr 4895,4064 and Win 748 all I ever use in a Winchester 308.
 
AJC1 said:
That 160 ftx is a 30-30 bullet. Probably work just fine but for target work those bthp will be your huckleberry. I've not run exterminator but that will be your 110 powder.
4064+ 168 bthp build a ladder from 43 to 45 and go test. I'll bet you find a decent load.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing.

+1 on IMR4064 and the 168grn BTHP to start.

Just an aside on your brass... as was mentioned, military brass is typically thicker, so it will have reduced internal volume. If you work up a load in commercial brass, don't just grab a handful of military brass and load it with the same load... you might get pressure signs. Rule of thumb is to reduce 1grn and work back up.
 
Good to know. I know that is a 30-30 bullet - the guy who picked them up is not a reloader and just saw "30 cal" on the box. I hate to let things go to waste. First set of testers loaded with 4064, will load some more experiments tonight with TAC and IMR 4895. Thank you all for your help!

Edited to correct "30-30"
 
Last edited:
armoredman said:
Good to know. I know that is a 30-340 bullet - the guy who picked them up is not a reloader and just saw "30 cal" on the box. I hate to let things go to waste. First set of testers loaded with 4064, will load some more experiments tonight with TAC and IMR 4895. Thank you all for your help!
Click to expand...
It's not a bad thing, and some would say they are the best bullet made for the 30-30. If you get a pile of stuff to trade it will bring you something good you need. If you don't open them you could return them to try something else or exchange for one of the ones you test that work well.
 
armoredman said:
Good to know. I know that is a 30-340 bullet - the guy who picked them up is not a reloader and just saw "30 cal" on the box. I hate to let things go to waste. First set of testers loaded with 4064, will load some more experiments tonight with TAC and IMR 4895. Thank you all for your help!
Click to expand...
Because you only have one box of each I would keep one bullet and powder together. If you find a good load it will be nice to have stuff to make more. If your chomping for another test investigate that exterminator with 110. That will stomp a varmint like a fox or coyote.
 
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