.308 win sizing problem

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"If done right"? There has to be more than two ways to adjust a die CORRECTLY, you do not form first, make transfers and or standards, the word FEELER GAGE is not in your vocabulary and you do not read my mail, that leaves at lease one more way to adjust the die to the shell holder in the press correctly, correct?

Again, what do you do with the information gained when measuring the effect the chamber had on the case when it was fired, it is not possible to go the ammo store and order ammo that is .000 + .010, that is .001 over the length of a no go-gage, .005 over a go-gage and .010 thousands longer from the head of to it's shoulder than a full length size case (commercial ammo).
If the information is not used to adjust the die to the shell holder, the information is nice to know. One more time, I know the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber before I start loading.

Again, then there is resistance to sizing and springy ole presses, I have strain and deviation gages, nothing new Herters' demonstrated their presses in the 60s being tested with dial indicators measuring deflection, I doubt there were sizing cases that were fired 10 times.

F. Guffey
 
fguffey .....

I think you're being a bit too defensive. I agree that there are a jillion different ways to measure headspace. I'm just showing a NEW way. When I said "if done right" I was referring to taking an accurate measurement of headspace . . . . any way you want to do it. (I don't care which method you want to use.)

Believe it or not, I'm replying to your questions about how OTHER shooters measure headspace (or not). As you know, many shooters don't measure anything more than OAL, and they'll get by just fine . . . . for a while.

The "nice to know information" you're referring to is clearly explained in the operating instructions. (Follow the link in my last post, and you'll see that.) The measurement that our Digital Headspace Gauge provides represents the actual clearance (at the shoulder) that YOUR handloads will have in YOUR particular chamber.

Examples:

If our gauge displays +. 002" then this case is two thousandths longer than your chamber.

If our gauge displays -.008" then your chamber is eight thousandths shorter than your chamber.

This information makes it easy to see which way (and how far) to adjust die height to make perfect fitting handloads.

I hope this answers your questions. Again this is information for OTHER shooters out there, and I am definitely not reflecting on your personal measuring technique.

- Innovative
 
Let's not get the cart before the horse. Read post #67 and OFFFHANDS request. Let the OP finish out his investigation then we can assess the "solution"'s as to which are valid and which are not.

I read the forum's rules on content of posting and find that the 1st amendment is the guideline. So, Innovative's running of crass commercials every other post is to be tolerated, but no less aggravating, I suppose. Maybe that is the cause for "defensiveness"? Maybe there should be a separate thread started advertising the "Digital Headspace Guage"?
 
Most shooters find that this is a logical place to find NEW reloading tools and techniques. See post number 68.
 
Member



Join Date: October 24, 2009
Location: Casselberry, Florida
Posts: 17 rcmodel ......

You said to RCMODEL:

There's a little more to it than you think. Sometimes you need to raise the die to keep from buckleing the case or increasing chamber clearance. If it only bulges your case by .001" too much, that case also may fail to chamber.


"If our gauge displays -.008" then your chamber is eight thousandths shorter than your chamber"



as you said to me, "your second post was a LITTLE more clear" that is as good as it gets, thank you for the compliment?

I remember another tool that was introduced that must not have had much success, I could have improved on it, it was similar to a tool I built at the request by a person doing third party work in a automotive machine shop, seems there was a complaint, with the advent of hydraulic lifters and the elimination of adjusters, valve stem height was critical but if correct after grinding it was an accident.

I built a tool and gave it to him, he was sharp so it did not take long to explain to him how it worked, he use it for a week then said he was going to try and sell a few, in another week he informed me the tool was flawless, BUT, no one in any shop had time to use it, they had rather have the head(s) come back than do the work correctly, later on another forum I described the tool, later on the same forum a picture appeared of a tool being sold that looked identical to the tool I gave to a friend, except I did not have a knurled body and as I said I could have improved on the design.

So, some post for help, other post to help, somewhere down the line people lurk for ideals. And I agree with having a place to sell commercially, or include RCBS, Redding, Lee, Hornady and Hodgdon tech personal selling their product as a solution to problems, in my opinion that will not happen, I believe they have too much pride, as I said I do not have a lot of Lee products, that does not mean there is a shortage of hand loaders that recommend their product.

F. Guffey
 
Well I see that Rube Goldberg is alive and well, now calling himself by the name innovative! That contraption called a case gauge, well, I still don't see how it works! Maybe if I saw enough pictures from different angles, I could see whats holding that V block suspended where it is.

So at $44.99, the RCBS precision mic will do what your gauge will do at half the price,(yours is $89.95)? Or is yours NOT caliber specific. can it be used on any cartridge? Okay, then the Hornady gauge is usable for multiple calibers, $35.99. Of course the Hornady set requires a caliper, which all handloaders need/have anyway.

Good luck selling it, I'm sure it works, I just can't figure out how--------.
 
Snuffy, in a machine shop the tool would be called a height gage with an adapter designed to set on the shoulder of a case (without a standard) and is designed to zero (.000)on one case and measure the difference when compared to another case, in the rest of the relaoding world a gage that does that is called a 'case comparator'.

F. Guffey
 
I avoided this thread as I suspected there would be more heat tan light. Not so bad.
Setting a die to touch the shellholder works only if the die manufacturer has done a good job. Frequently that is not the case.I am a big fan of case gages and headspace gages, but the latter get a bit pricey. I do have four sets of headspace gages for bottleneck cartridges. And in every instance the Wilson case gages were within .001" of the headspace gages. So at least for four cartridge families, I have verifiable measurements. In two die sets I own(.243 and 30-06), the dies are off the shellholder by an appreciable amount. Not to fault, but they are/were RCBS purchased new. In addition, shellholders do vary. A case in point would be the Redding precision sets. They are designed in .002" steps but the two sets I've checked strayed from the intended .125" -.002' envelope by almost .002 on individual holders but, close enough to attempt it's intended job. I would wager that everyday shellholders get less attention in the QC department.
Those in the manufacturing world will recognize the term "tolerance stack-up".
Couple the variables of tolerance with a touch of inexperience could easily produce the conditions of the OP. Add in that we're not sure whether it was a sized case or a complete cartridge that wouldn't chamber. He indicated that the brass was within spec. on length but was the chamber? What about OAL? Is the bullet jamming the lands? Is the neck diameter okay? Is the neck reasonably straight? Etc. Without further input we are guessing as another poster opined.
As to measuring equipment. Without a means of calibrating, you get some kind of unqualifiable comparative measurement. On another board, in a similar type thread, one experienced loader found that his carefully crafted loads were .003" shorter than thought. He finally checked his Mic with a headspace gage and found the error. And as to dgital case gage? It doesn't account for banana shaped cartridges or shoulder angle or fat necks or out of square heads or buggered heads or raised primer pockets or out of square necks or even how square the tool is or.. well I ran out of ors. I'm sure that the tool could be used as a useful and quick adjunct to other tools especially total envelope tools such as a case gage, but it most certainly is not the end all and be all.
 
snuffy ........

Our company Innovative Technologies was incorporated in 1995, and that's where "Innovative" comes from. "Innovative" is also lasered on our products. The RCBS Precision Mic is a pretty good tool for $44.99 but how much are you saving when you need to buy them for reloading different calibers? (Real good for RCBS!) As you mentioned, our Digital Headspace Gauge doesn't require calipers, so you don't need to balance your case on the blade of calipers to take a reading. Unlike other tools, it also doesn't require special bushings, fittings, or rods to take a simple measurement.


Steve ......

Your post has good information according to the original post by mentioning the variables in reloading equipment. However, our Digital headspace Gauge doesn't work quite the way you explained.

The problem you described with the RCBS Precision Mic is one reason I developed the Digital Headspace Gauge. Our gauge is designed to take comparative measurements - not specified measurements. Being that a fired case duplicates your chamber perfectly, our gauge is zeroed (calibrated) on that dimension. After that, you insert a resized case and the display shows the chamber clearance (at the shoulder) that YOUR handloads will have in YOUR particular chamber.

Our gauge provides a machined flat base that makes it easy to see variances for raised primer pockets, and you just need to rotate the case to measure the effect of out of square case heads. Our Digital Headspace Gauge replaces a few different tools. However, like other reloading tools, isn't intended to be the "end all be all". Someone still needs to be invent that one.

- Innovative (Larry Willis)
 
Therin lies the rub. Not only does a fired case only generally reflect the chamber but how does that help you when using other brass? I hope you aren't telling us that your gage is a one trick pony? As I surmised, your tool could be useful when used with other tools. Problem being brass springback in both the chamber and the reloading die. What is needed is a tool that checks the "envelope" of a cartridge. And that would be a case gage or the chamber.
I do know how your gage works, still, I certainly wouldn't presume to explain in forum. And no, your tool would not show an out of square head by rotating the cartridge. In fact, your tool would show the dimension to be shorter than it is. The only hope would be to rotate the cartridge and read the high and low variation. But even that wouldn't be accurate as only one of the legs of your V would be contacting. Just for this discussion, pretend that the base of the cartridge is 45 degrees to the body. Even you'll agree that your tool will read the brass as short. Now if the axis of the 45 degrees is perpendicular to the V, you'll get a higher reading (but still way short) because one of the legs is contacting before the other. So if your theoretical headspace is 2.000 inches, your tool would show it to be 1.414 when the 45 is parallel to the V and somewhat higher as it rotates 90 degrees to the V. sine of 45 Deg. is .7071. I know that's a ridiculous angle but it makes it easier to visualize.
 
Steve .....

I don't know much about ponys. I'm just describing one versitile NEW product .... simply an alternative (but very helpful tool).

When you fire a case, 50,000 PSI ensures that it's just like a casting of your chamber. That's not general - that's as perfect as it gets. I also use the Redding competition shellholders on occasion, and I've found the same variances that you mentioned. In fact, my Digital Headspace Gauge has exposed that inaccuracy, and it often directs me to select a different shellholder than the Redding instructions suggest. I can also measure my finished cases to verify resizing accuracy.

If you're referring to a very expensive, one of a kind, custom made chamber gauge (made by the original chamber reamer) used by top benchrest shooters, then our gauge "might" not be the best choice. However, most shooters don't have their original chamber reamer, and they wouldn't want to pay a machinist to make a chamber gauge - even if they could get their original reamer.

Your example is logical, however, if it was in the relm of any actual measurements, a case would not vary by more than .001" in length, and the case head angle would need to be measured in minutes or seconds - not degrees or thousandths. That's splitting hairs far beyond reloading for most shooters.

[Call me sometime, and I'll tell you about my findings measuring cases with a shadow comparator. That would be a barrel of worms to describe in a forum.]

- Innovative
 
OK already. The OP has left us all hanging so maybe he is a busy guy-last post to this thread on the 24th of November.

The slap and tickle has been fun but there is always room for another technique or method or tool on the reloading bench-else why we would have several major companies making many of the same items-each just a slight bit different from the others?

  • Is the general consensus that the OP should readjust per the included with the die instructions and try again?
  • And then if he still has a problem to either try a second copy of the same dies or contact the manufacturer to replace/repair of his original purchase?
  • And if he is handloading general purpose/hunting ammo, that he should be using full length resizing dies?
  • And further, he should benefit from buying a cartridge gauge ala Lyman or Wilson and the requisite steel edge (ruler) to make the tool work correctly?



Innovation: I looked carefully at your new tool. Seems rather one-off-ish, that is I can adjust the screws for one cartridge, lock in place and measure the same caliber many time

but

if I change calibers then there is no accurate way to return to the original setting/caliber.

This is not an improvement over the Stoney-Point/Hornady L-N-L case/bullet comparator with an ordinary dial or digital caliper except for the stationary base. (Similarly with the Sinclair 'nut device' for bullet/case comparison.) I do like the dial indicator-easy for old eyes, but you really need something absolutely repeatable across many cartridges and bullets. Taking an RCBS Case Master approach and expanding it to include the comparator function previously listed would step on a lot of proprietary material but might appeal to those who like one-stop shopping.

As for the feeler gauge approach (of fguffey I believe), such has been incorporated by one Mr Skip (something) or (something) Skip. A set of graduated washer style shims with sizing indicator notches in 0.003, 0.004, 0.005, 0.006, 0.007 0.008 and 0.010 thicknesses.

The manner of operation is straightforward: Insert dies trough a 0.007 shim and install on the press. Adjust per directions and using an RCBS/Hornady/other locking nut, activate the locking feature snugly. To move die up or down in as small as 0.001 increments removed die and locking nut carefully to preserve dimensionality and substitute the desired shim.

Zediker (et al, I presume) suggest dies and locking nuts need be on finger snug and checked periodically for best results. This is a significant difference from dies on a progressive press where makers recommend the use of a wrench.

And the cat is out of the bag as to why dies don't typically have hex heads for wrenches.)
 
jfdavis58 .......

I don't think you understand exactly how the Digital Headspace Gauge works. That's perfectly understandable without ever having seen the instructions, because this is a NEW product. It's a unique device, and that's why I'm explaining it. This gauge is patented because of the adjustable V-block asm. However, it's all explained (in great detail) on my website.

The digital gauge slides up and down on a vertical shaft, and then it locks anywhere you want. That makes it adjustable for comparing any case from a .22 Hornet to the 416 Rem. Magnum.

Whoever made the original post ..... sorry for the unintended hijack of your thread. Judging from the number of phone calls I'm getting, this thread has helped several shooters. Thanks to everyone for helping me tell "the rest of the story".

- Innovative
 
jfdavis58: pretty much
Innovative: 50,000 or more or less psi doesn't guarantee anything. All firearms flex. Don't tell me you've never seen a banana case. Or an out of square case. Or... you get the drift and you want to promote your product. Fine. But you're going a little Herter's on us. Please consider that a tool that measures or gives a comparative reading of the envelope package of the case is the Holy Grail of resizing. Yours might be nice to have but it cannot do that. I've never talked to a custom smith and probably never will. I use Wilson case gages but there are others. And just for fun, next time you size a case, put it in one of your Wilson's and indicate the head. Very few are parallel to the surface plate. blah, blah, blah.
 
I do not know which skip, skip before skip after, I remember a conversation, I said I use 'THE COMPANION GAGE' to the press, a machinist feeler gage to adjust the die to the shell holder in the press, later I was asked about locating large pieces of thin shim stock, I suggested locating shim that are used to seal/adjust fuel injectors etc., I thought the torque of the nut against the thin shim would destroy it, I suggested he use two washer, drill a hole through the washers, mount them on the press with a 7/8x14 bolt screwed in from the bottom then align the holes and drill and pin the press THEN use the shim between the washers, the pin would prevent the washers from rotating, then it got into the only way to secure the lock nut in the press, I explained my method, if a lock nut is secured to the die and in my position, the die is not my die, I adjust the die to the shell holder in the press every time, then secure the die to the press with the lock nut, I use the lock nut to remove the slack between the die threads and the threads in the press, on that forum the most common response was "I do to" that forum at the time was dysfunctional at best.

Another question was about neck sizing with a full length sizer, I suggested removing the washer from the 38 Special/357 Mag sizer die set, again this gets us to where we are now, the washer would work if he only sizes for one chamber and he secures the lock nut to the die, again I said I don't, if I used the washer I would place it on the top of the shell holder then adjust the die down until it contacted the washer, then secure the die to the press with the nut.

Skip before? Skip after? 'It may not have been skip' could not grab the concept of placing a feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and bottom of the case head to shorten the length of the case from the head of the case to it's shoulder by reducing the .125 deck height of the shell holder, again I shorten the distance between the case head and shoulder .017 (below the length of the perfect chamber, go-gage size) thousands with an RCBS shell holder, add .005 if I am using a Lee shell holder, Skip before? Skip after could stack 1.00 shims between the lock nut and top of the press and never get to the point where the case got shorter when sizing, not an argument but logic, if the shim between the deck of the shell holder and bottom of the case can be used to form cases for short chambers, why not use the feeler gage to adjust the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die? I do not know, the one thing that scared me about that forum always came when someone ask a question, a good helpful answer was given and the OP said something like 'Thank You'

And I said Redding shell holders are nice to have but the companion to the press 'feeler gage' could duplicate anything the Redding shell holder could accomplish, they were big on grinding dies and shell holders, the reason for grinding was known only to the person doing the grinding. The companion to the press the feeler gage cost $11.00, at harbor freight $5.00.

F. Guffey
 
Back to the first page:

Innovative said: To me.

"I've found that most shooters avoid checking head space altogether, because they've seen 1,000 complicated ways of measuring it. Reloading is not rocket science. Visit our website and you'll see over 125 pages of reloading tech tips that help shooters make better hand loads, while keeping it simple".


6 months ago + or - 6 months I said I purchased a mill from a collector of 03s, a most knowledgeable resource person on Garands and anything 03, while gathering up the parts and pieces he mentioned building a period correct 03 for 1911 and needed to check the head space, he mentioned going to a forum and discussing methods and techniques, with (on that forum) predictable results, lofty terms and hypothetical, the 'datum liners' being the worst offenders, it turned into 'head space can not be checked and or discussed on the Internet.

I explained to him 'this is your lucky day' I can check the head space on that chamber three different ways 'AND' you have the tools to accomplish all three methods on that bench and in that tool box. he explained to me he had head space gages, the go would go the no-go would not, his question was about barrels, chambers and bolts, he wanted the perfect chamber, not one that was between A and B, he wanted to know how far beyond A and How far behind B, then I added 'without a head space gage' as in three ways of checking head space without a head space gage and added I could modify his go-gage into a 'go to infinity-gage' I explained to him I do not use head space gages, they are nice to have and talk about but when I check head space I check head in thousands.

The period correct 03 requires a straight handle, he was limited when it came to changing bolts, he had one, I have 30 plus loose bolts, all bent, I have one straight handle in a Rock Island 03. He was curious as to why I did not use gages, I explained to him I did not shoot gages I shoot ammo, seldom new commercial the rest I load. He had a new box of Remington 30/06 he was going to use when he tested the rifle, that is what we started with, I had him get the 'press companion tool' the machinist feeler gage and I started by pulling the bolt back to set the lugs against the receiver (bolt closed) then measured the GAP between the rear receiver ring and the exposed 3 locking (safety) lug, then chambered a new Remington unfired commercial round from his box of new Remington cartridges, I pushed the bolt forward (nicely) to seat the cartridge, then measured the gap between the safety lug and rear receiver ring again, the difference in the two measurements = head space for that cartridge in that chamber with that bolt, then I proceeded to measure the effect each cartridge in a box of 20 had on head space. with the .005 built into the perfect chamber/cartridge he had an average of .0075, I suggested we change the bolt and check it's effect on head space etc., then I demonstrated a method for checking the effect a bolt has on head space. As I said I have 30 loose bolts, it is safe to say a bolt is a bolt is a bolt except for the markings, and period correctness.

"Reloading is not rocket science", if it is not RC, whey are we still talking about it?

"I've found that most shooters avoid checking head space altogether, because they've seen 1,000 complicated ways of measuring it". How complicated is a feeler gage? If checking head source on an 03 is checked with a feeler gage, the money for the 'press companion' does not go to the reloading industry, I suggest the reloading industry start selling the 'companion to the press' tool.

Does the difficult finical times have an influence on your persistence meaning if it is not sold here will you be in finical difficulty? You keep telling me I do not understand, I need to understand and If you knew how . What I understand is a head space gage is a head space gage, a case gage is a case gage and the feeler gage became the 'Companion Gage' to the press.

And I demonstrated to the collector a method/technique for measuring the effect a case has on head space by measuring the case from the head of the case to it's shoulder (with tools from his bench and tool box(s)) in the perfect chamber. The rifle he was building indicated he had .0075 head space, while checking the length of the case from the head of the case to the shoulder he handed me a go-gage, I checked the gage, it was .005 thousands longer than ONE of the new Remington cartridges, the gages were given to him by a good friend first and after that a master machinist-gun smith.

And the datum is not a line, it is a circle, round hole, the circle round hole for the 30/06 is 3/8 of an inch or .375.

F. Guffey
 
Walkalone, Alabama? My wife has been included into something called the 'HOOVER NATION' by family and a couple of coaches, she is looking forward to this week end. They provided her the link below that allows her to listen to the games. Exciting football.

http://www.talkradio1055.com/main.html

F. Guffey
 
Bama fans, like myself, are excited to have the opportunity to play Florida again for the SEC title. Maybe this year we can do it. :cool:

Back to the topic on hand. :)
 
As you know, many shooters don't measure anything more than OAL, and they'll get by just fine . . . . for a while.
Click to expand...

I guess that would be me. I have never measured headspace and never experienced a case head separation. The only brass failure I have ever experienced are an occasional split neck. I toss brass which shows signs of stretching near the case head but can get several loadings before that becomes evident.

Bottlenecked rifle calibers I have reloaded for over the last 20 years are the 30-30, 30-06, and 243 Win. I have the equipment to load for 3 other calibers but have yet to load any ammo for them (still collecting brass from factory loads) 7.62x39mm. 223, and 308 Win.

I know what headspace is but my guns are set up from the factory and I don't change barrels myself so I don't worry about the hardware dimensions.

I adjust the sizing die to full length resize by bottoming it out on the shell holder (except the 243 which I only neck size). I do this because I shoot semi-autos mostly and it supposedly promotes better feeding.

I am about to begin loading my accumulated brass for the 7.62x39mm. 223, and 308 Win (just bought an M1A Scout). I would measure my loaded cartridges if I thought it was important but after all these years that doesn't seem to be the case to me.

I am open to logic if someone can tell me why it is needed if I am full length resizing anyway I would appreciate it and be prone to listen. This is a great discussion. From what I gather measuring headspace on my 243 would be most useful since I occasionally experience a stiff bolt closure on neck sized rounds?

Thanks.
 
I am open to logic if someone can tell me why it is needed if I am full length resizing anyway I would appreciate it and be prone to listen.
Click to expand...

This entire thread started because the OP posted this statement:

I have a Howa .308 win that is giving me fits on sizing. I fire a round and it will rechamber easily. Once I full length size it in my hornady dies, it is hard to close the bolt on the round. Trim length is ok. I think it is a shoulder issue. How can I solve this?? Is it a die adjustment problem?? Die is screwed in till it touches the shellholder, then 1/8 to 1/4 round farther.
Click to expand...

This gentleman is following the typical guidance given to full length size to the shell holder and add a bit, and yet, something is not working.

He does not know what the problem is because he does not have the ability to measure.

If you cannot measure the problem, then you cannot control the problem. Heck, you don’t even understand the problem because without measurements, all you are doing is philosophizing. It took millennium to have standards, standardization, and gauging accepted in industry. Now everyone expects that all things are modular and 100% interchangeable.

Well they are not.

When I have dropped in chamber headspace gages into my cartridge headspace gages, everything lines up. The Go gage goes the minimum in a cartridge headspace gage, and the No Go lines up perfectly with the maximum. That gives me confidence that both type of gages were made against a calibrated standard.

Until you get gages, you have no idea how seldom following the factory instructions of “touch the shellholder and add a quarter turn” ever produces ammunition that headspaces between the Go and No Go.

That is why I use cartridge headspace gages. They are a lot easier to use than stripping off the firing pin mechanism, extractor, ejector off a bolt and using the chamber as a guide.

And that is assuming that the rifle is correctly headspaced. That is why I have chamber headspace gages. To ensure that the chamber is within headspace.

One issue that is not addressed is why do we have "headspace". Rifle manufacturers and cartridge manufactures are following a standard so that ammunition is interchangable and safe. The rule of thumb is that cases will rupture if stretched more than .006". That is why we control rifle headspace and cartridge headspace. Function and safety.

How complicated is a feeler gage?
Click to expand...

How calibrated is your feeler gage?

I do not have a way to calibrate my gages, I do not own a calibration lab, I just have to assume that the gages are made properly. Since these gages are made of hardened steel, I am not worried about wear. Feeler gages are thin, subject to rust and wear.
 
Until you get gages, you have no idea how seldom following the factory instructions of “touch the shellholder and add a quarter turn” ever produces ammunition that headspaces between the Go and No Go.
Click to expand...
Yep. We assume the tolerances in our dies are right and load happily and blissfully ignorantly. Which is OK.

We full length size and it works, so we assume we are within specs. (Go, No Go etc) We are happy and shoot that way for years. We may not get the best case life, but it works. (To the die makers credit, they get it right a great deal)

Then one day we get a new caliber/dies, or we get a new gun with a tighter chamber, or a looser one, and we start to have problems. We have no idea why, and until we learn exactly how things are supposed to work, and how to measure them, we are going to have trouble because we don't know which way to go.

As I posted earlier, there are many ways to measure these things, some simple, some not so simple, some fancy tools and some plain jane stuff. Which of those we use is not as important as understanding what we are doing.
 
SlamFire1 ....

I agree. If shooters don't measure chamber clearance (at the shoulder), they're just guessing, and like the original post they'll have a hard time understanding what's really happening.

Go-no/go gauges just show that your chamber is within industry standards. If your chamber clearance is on the high side of the acceptable range (about -.006") your case will stretch that distance every time it's fired. It's much better to have your case stretch only .001" and prevent any chance of a headspace separation. Your brass will obviously last a lot longer too.

Certain calibers are prone to crack at the neck first. This is much more common for shooters that don't anneal the cases of those particular calibers. Your die and shellholder also need to be made within industry standards. Hopefully they are . . . . .

I designed the Digital Headspace Gauge to measure the clearance (at the shoulder) thet YOUR handloads have in YOUR particular chamber. This method doesn't require disassembling any part of your rifle, and it doesn't care about any measured datum line or cartridge drawings. It helps if you NK or FL resize, and it quickly points out the problem described in the original post. So far, about 500 shooters are now using our Digital Headspace Gauge.

[If you have another method to measure chamber clearance ... go for it.]

- Innovative
 
Slam fire, you purchased a go-gage, I guess you stripped the bolt, chambered the gage, closed the bolt, and as expected it closed, it must have been a let down because that is all there is, like I said I can convert a go gage to a go- to-infinity gage, that is a gage that measures head space from .005 in .000 thousands to a practical distance beyond a field length gage. or Hatchers modified chamber with .125 (+ the .005? it started with) head space or the 30/06 chamber with the shoulder moved forward .125 thousands. He was puzzled as to why something did not go wrong, for his effort he extracted fire formed cases for his 30/06 Hatcher Modified chamber, something between a 30/06 and a 30 Gibbs.

I did not say I do not have go-gages, I said I did not use them, I do not have a calibration lab I have comparator gages that are identical to the digital head space gage, I also have two that are gear driven, one is/was electronic, a Pratt and Whitney, the total amount of dial travel from either side of .000 does not = to .001, it measures down to .00001, I removed the electronics and installed a dial indicator on the stylist, the max. height is 14 inches, yes I can verify a measurement I do not have a lab.

"I do not have a way to calibrate my gages, I do not own a calibration lab"

If you believe you do not have a way to calibrate your gages and or convinced you do not have the tools to test and or verify measurements, forgive me for wasting your time, but these things do not hang me up, I can use a feeler gage to check a dial caliber for accuracy, I can check one against the other to see if they agree, I can use a feeler gage to check a micrometer, straight edge (two required), etc., etc.,

'That is all there is' and the 'let down feeling', not for me, the head space gage can be used to set up a sizer die, remove the primer punch.sizer ball assembly from the die, install the die in the press, install the head space gage in the(?) shell holder, raise the ram and lower the die down to the head space gage until it contacts the shoulder of the head space gage, then secure the die to the press with the lock nut, cases sized using this technique are sized .005 thousands over a full length sized (minimum length) case. to verify the setting measure the gap between the shell holder and die. If the case after sizing will not chamber, decrease the gap with a feeler gage, there should come a time when confidence in the equipment would take some of the mystery out of reloading.

(?) shell holder, I was told this technique would not work, the head space gage would not fit the shell holder (not all head space gages, some will not fit, as in stripping the bolt to check head space, (that was started by someone that had a gage that had another purpose and not intended for someone that did not understand the it's purpose) so I asked about the deck height of the #3 shell holder, it was .125, I suggested using the #4 shell holder, same deck height, if it is not .125 send it back, RCBS will give you another one.

F. Guffey
 
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