308Win Long Range Loads - CFE223?

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1stmarine

1stmarine

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I have been using 175SMKs with H4895, BL-C(2) and Varget with pretty decent results but want to keep developing more loads.
Has anyone tried the new CFE223 powder with this round? Any other load suggestions are welcome Hodgdon or not.
Still I have to keep testing the superformance but not sure that is going to yield anything substantial.

Barrel is remington 700 SPS 24" barrel 1:10 twist.

Thanks.
 
Have you tried Reloader 15? Also AA 2520? Both shoot well out of my Rem 700 out to around 600 yards with consistent results. Probably would reach out accurately to a thousand yds if I had a place to shoot that far.
 
No I have not tried those but heard some are using this with great success.
We have steel plates at 400, 600, 800 and yes 1000 yards so I need some speed. Also I am planning to develop a new load with the berger 168 hybrid.
What is your starting and accurate load and the spreads if you do not mind?
Many thanks.
 
I have no experience with any ball powders for CF rifle reloading. Recently it was suggested I try W 760 or H414 for a modern 6.5 Swede loaded to higher pressures and velocities with 139-142's for a long range load. I am curious, not to be contradictory, why ball powders are as a general rule avoided by long range competitors.
 
Recently it was suggested I try W 760 or H414 for a modern 6.5 Swede loaded to higher pressures and velocities with 139-142's for a long range load.
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I have used a modern 6.5 Swede in 1,000 yard competition for several years along with several other guys. Have never heard of anyone using W760, H414, or any other ball powder for LR loads. Most guys use RL22 with the 139-142gr bullets. VihtaVouri N160 is another good powder for such purpose. With my 28" Obermeyer barrel, 2950fps was easily doable inside of 60k psi.

Don
 
So far and it's preliminary because I'm starting with a green barrel the RL 22 has proven to be filthy at 2850 and below. I am just getting it run in with IMR 4350 at 2800-2850. I'll go back to the RL 22 for another look when I finish the run in at higher pressures. My barrel is a 28" Krieger with Obermeyer 5R.
 
We have steel plates at 400, 600, 800 and yes 1000
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I have been having good luck with Varget using the 168 and 155 match bullets from a different manufactures, have not tried the berger 168 hybrid yet but on the list. range is a bit different 400, 500, 700, 900 the 1000 is not up yet.
 
I had very good luck with varget too for almost anything. What I like about varget is that is very versatile, clean and it seems impervious to temperature changes. When the thick cold air comes down still do not see any significant changes in the spreads.

USSR, I hear you man but I have been looking at the CF numbers and they are impressive so i wonder if there is any truth to those. ... and yes! I prefer to work with extruded powders but curiosity is itching right now.
So far the superformance mix from hodgdon has not done anything of what they so much advertised.

H4895 is a great performer too in many casings and it will never be lacking in the basement shelf. I have been working in a wildcat that is the 6mm BR norma (lapua of course) necked up to 6.5mm and 32grs of H4895 is pushing a 123gr scenar at 2807 avg. spread. ...and this I have running from an AR-15 20" match barrel so there is some horse power loss still in the gas tube. Very accurate too. This puts the little pill out to 1200 yards (I am at 550ft over sea level)

So, back to the .308 the goal is to develop a new load and try also the hybrid VLD everyone is talking about. G1 is .519 and G7 is .266

Thanks everyone for your feedback.
 
1stmarine said:
We have steel plates at 400, 600, 800 and yes 1000 yards so I need some speed.
Click to expand...

A .308 is a .308 and is not a .30-06 or a .300 Win Mag. If you need more speed, step up to a round with larger case capacity.


I know Bryan Litz is working for Berger now, and they're extremely fortunate to have him. But those VLD bullets, and any bullet with a secant ogive for that matter - like Lapua's Scenar rounds, take effort to find the "sweet spot" in seating depth. They're amazing when they work, but they are expensive, and they will take some work to find that spot. And as the throat erodes, that spot gradually changes over time.

The Hybrid is supposed to reduce that sensitivity, but reduce is not the same as eliminate. I suspect you'll still have to work a bit to find it.


I'm not a fan of ball powder for accuracy loads, either.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

I know a bigger case could put some extra fps but they also burn more powder and add extra recoil and I don't think they are more efficient overall
but your point is well taken.

I am expecting some length adjustment with the load but not something too complex. I don't know if I have been lucky or what but so far the bergers in 6mm and 6.5mm as well as the scenars have been very consistent with not too much work.
I am not going to say they are as forgiving as some Amax but at the other hand lapua as well as berger they tend to be very accurate with the advertised data and hornady, well, lets just say, they are a bit optimistic at times. But hey!.. great bullets too and well priced. I am a great fun of the Amax 155gr. it is an amazing bullet in 308 in that grain that works so well even in extreme cold weather.
In the .223 National match I have been buying the 75gr Amax and HPBT value packs that are very well priced and they shoot like the house is on fire.

Also I am not shooting Bench Rest for score. All that I care is to hit the steel so great accuracy is still important but not as important as a small mistake in the wind calls.

Like Zak, I do not find the scenars picky but of course one needs to take into acccount all the factors of one's specific setup. The 6.5BR I am shooting out of a krieger criterium barrel. Also I have two systems in the 700 action in 308w, I am shooting out the remington stock barrel and also a 24" krieger 5R barrel with 1:10 twist and their standard 308w. reamer.

If the weather is good this weekend I will do some development on the spreads and post it later here.

If anyone has an accuracy load and do not mind to share the data I can give it a try once I get there. I start low and research from there so no disclaimers are needed.

Thanks.
 
Zak Smith said:
FWIW, I have not found the Scenar to be "jump sensitive" in .308, .260/6.5, or .338.
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I have in my .308 Winchester. It'll do well with 175 gr SMKs. And 110 gr Hornady V-Max's. But I had erratic performance from them when I went from shooting on steel to paper in mid-range F-class matches.

I never noticed it on steel, but at 600 yards on paper I'd have it walk around on me. I didn't have those problems with 175 gr in the same matches. I simply decided to stop fooling around with the bullet for F-class. 500 rounds of 155 gr Scenars cost just about $100.00 more than 500 rounds of 175 gr SMKs. Nearly twice the price.


My loading equipment isn't benchrest quality. And I'm not willing to invest in it just for F-class matches.

My experience with bullets that have a secant ogive is not unique. In fact it's common. So common Berger is coming out with a completely new bullet - that Hybrid - that is supposed to minimize those seating depth issues and retain the advantages of the higher B.C. that comes with the secant radius.

Zak, you're fortunate if you're not seeing it. Or perhaps it exists, but since most of the stuff you're doing is on steel you might not notice it. I've had a group of nice X's spoiled with a few wild 8's and 9's using the Scenar. I'm not getting those wild, unexplained fliers with the traditionally-shaped SMK.


I guess I could work on load development. But I'm just not willing to. They cost significantly more, require better tools, etc.
 
I also shoot a 700 in 308 using sierra 165gr with IMR4064 witch brings me to a question. What is max load? Depending on what book I grab I am over max other books iam not. I dont got a crono YET! But as for powders varget imr4064 imr4350 and some blc-2 dont like it
 
I also shoot a 700 in 308 using sierra 165gr with IMR4064 witch brings me to a question. What is max load? Depending on what book I grab I am over max other books iam not. I dont got a crono YET! But as for powders varget imr4064 imr4350 and some blc-2 dont like it
Click to expand...

7.62X?,
My 2 cents to your question:
IMO the max load is an arbitrary thing. First all reamers and freebore are not equal and this has an effect on pressure. Also some manufactures advertise max loads still in the safe range so they are 'safe' liability wise even after all disclaimers. But I think above all is that there are so many variables that every load data should be with detailed specs of the chamber, brass, temperature, length and rifling of the barrel, etc... so in the end you need to find out the max load or close to max load lets say, by yourself. Normally should not be too far from the advertised so load small increments and look at the spreads carefully. Remember that pressure signs come in 2 most times but if you start to see flatten primers and protrusion marks alone you know you have reached that point and you need to back down.

Cheers,
E.
 
The 168 gr bullets are great up to 800 yards. At 800 and farther, forget it. They have a habit of de-stabilizing terribly when they become transonic, which is somewhere about that distance, depending on the variables of load, altitude, temp, etc.

At 1,000 yds you might as well have shot at the moon.
 
I shot a 185 w/2x's out of 200 (f class) 1000 yds with m852 ammo 168 matckings thru my issued m24 and my personal custom mauser

several of my friends have scored in the high 190's
 
The 168 gr bullets are great up to 800 yards. At 800 and farther, forget it. They have a habit of de-stabilizing terribly when they become transonic, which is somewhere about that distance, depending on the variables of load, altitude, temp, etc.

At 1,000 yds you might as well have shot at the moon.
Click to expand...

I think the berger hybrid would be ok for 1K yards. At least it looks like that in the ballistics chart.
..But I have shot the moon a few times before. LOL!
 
This is what I did. Got 50 brass ready trimed to 2.005 ALL of them (that took some time) primed ready to go. Got all set up in the back of my truck went to the range. First I found out the biggest chagre I could find at that time 44.5 I have found bigger since then. Loaded 2 rounds at a time. Was just watch for any PSI. sings. By the time I got to 44.3 the primers were getting perty flat case was fine and the report was a nice sharp crack rember no crono. O had a jump of 0.026 (couldnt get 0.025 this was all done at 100Y) Then I back it off to 44.1 loaded 3 rounds shoot them. Thay ALL were within a dime size hole. I gess I did some thing right. FYI I have only been reloading for 3 years now dont have a range over 200Y. Maybe some one can answer this how mutch bullet drop should I expect from 100Y to 200Y I got 3"
 
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sniper762 said:
I shot a 185 w/2x's out of 200 (f class) 1000 yds with m852 ammo 168 matckings thru my issued m24 and my personal custom mauser

several of my friends have scored in the high 190's
Click to expand...

Use some of the conventional long range rounds and you'll find your personal best bump up to the middle 190s. My average score for all of last year using 175gr SMKs was 184.


The 168 SMK grain was developed for 300 yard shooting out of the .308, where it excels. It's marginal at 600, and dismal at 800 and beyond. The design has it become unstable at transonic speeds, which is usually somewhere around the 800 yard mark through a .308. Push it faster and the range increases, but it still does not tolerate the transition into transonic well at all. I'd bet if you looked closely at the impact on paper you'd see some of the evidence - they keyhole.


This isn't new information. It's been known for a long time, since the 1960s.

You can see more in-depth discussion here -
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/02/cartridges-762-nato-long-range-match.html

Both parts 1 & 2 deal with the 168 grain bullet in long range competition.
 
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