.32 acp reloading question

[Shivahasagun]

I'm considering reloading my .32's, mainly to function better with a suppressor.

Most of my ammo is of the hotter variety. With the suppressor it beats the guns a bit and it's a little louder than it needs to be.

So, I'm considering loading up 78 gr lead coated .313 bullets, lightly.

My question is, because the bullets look a little short, I want to be able to load them as long as I need to to reduce pressure and avoid any rimlock issues.

Because I'll be using a taper crimp I can run OAL as long as the chambers & magazines allow, right?

My guns are Beretta's and a CZ, so I'm pretty sure I can use the .313 bullets.

I have Geco, S&B, and Fiocchi ammo to shoot and recover cases from. IIRC i checked the Fiocchi and it was Boxer-primed. I haven't checked the others, yet.

I don't really want to even start reloading another caliber but I'm dropping .38 Colt Short & .32 S&W Long so that helps a little.

 

[N555]

What's your fastest powder?

 

[Shivahasagun]

Titegroup, 700X, HP38

 

[P Flados]

You are correct that you should load coated 78 gr bullets to an AOL that is sure to avoid rimlock. Exact min AOL to prevent rimlock can be slightly different for some bullet profiles in combination with some magazines. I would be tempted to go real close to half way between the min to avoid rimlock and the max for smooth function.

With 32 ACP, seating depth is a very big variable for determining how much powder is right for a given bullet and gun. Seating depth is a function of AOL and bullet length which can be very confusing to some reloaders.

Note that some 32 ACP guns can not even tolerate hot factory ammo, so you need to know what you are doing with this cartridge. One of my favorite 32 ACP threads is at the link below. It started off with talk about what looked like a gross overload and then transitioned into a great discussion with a very experienced guy. I suggest that you read and re-read the entire thread.

For use with a can, I would go with the fastest powder I could and I would probably work up in 0.1 gr increments from a very low starting point until the gun cycles ok, then add 0.1 to 0.2 gr and stop for a regular shooting load. If you need a more powerful load, I would recommend being very cautious. With good inputs (all of the needed details please) I am not shy about doing Quickload runs.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?455944-32-acp/page2

 

[P Flados]

I saw the available powders after I made the previous post. Your 700x would be a good choice, but it is not in the Quickload powder list. I previously ran a bunch of 231/HP38 loads. So here is a Titegroup run for a 3.5" barrel.

Cartridge          : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet             : .312,  78, RN - 0.471 long - Rimrock
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.970 inch = 24.64 mm
Barrel Length      : 3.5 inch = 88.9 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon TiteGroup

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-27.3   36     1.60    674      79    8359   2169     89.2    0.704
-22.7   39     1.70    709      87    9343   2343     91.4    0.669
-18.2   41     1.80    743      96   10400   2514     93.3    0.638
-13.6   43     1.90    776     104   11531   2680     94.9    0.608
-09.1   46     2.00    809     113   12737   2839     96.3    0.580
-04.5   48     2.10    841     123   14020   2993     97.4    0.553
+00.0   50     2.20    873     132   15383   3138     98.3    0.528
+04.5   52     2.30    903     141   16827   3276     99.0    0.506
+09.1   55     2.40    933     151   18356   3405     99.6    0.485
+13.6   57     2.50    963     161   19971   3524     99.9    0.466  ! Near Maximum !

 

[Walkalong]

Because I'll be using a taper crimp I can run OAL as long as the chambers & magazines allow, right?

Neck tension holds the bullet, the taper "crimp" simply removes the belling, which I suggest you keep at a minimum.

I've run 60/60+ Gr JHPs, 71 Gr plated and jacketed RN, coated 64 gr SWCs, and to start just loaded them for function, haven't had rimlock issues. This includes a CZ M-83 and a Beretta M-81.

AA #2 works well, as does W-231, N-310, N320, Bullseye.

 

[BC17A]

My guns are Beretta's and a CZ, so I'm pretty sure I can use the .313 bullets.

I have Geco, S&B, and Fiocchi ammo to shoot and recover cases from. IIRC i checked the Fiocchi and it was Boxer-primed. I haven't checked the others, yet.

Unfortunately none of that brass is going to chamber with a .313" bullet. European 32ACP brass is thicker and is loaded with a .309" projectile.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Unfortunately none of that brass is going to chamber with a .313" bullet. European 32ACP brass is thicker and is loaded with a .309" projectile.

Uh-oh.

So, independent of bore size the brass is a problem, eh?

Can I swag it? Perhaps the manufacturer can swag it or cast it in say, .311?

 

[GooseGestapo]

Some manufacturers will swag them for you. It may be cheaper to order a Lee sizer kit and siz3 them yourself. I’ve had a few older European cases even fail to chamber with the .311 size.
Lyman has a lot of data and the Cast bullet manual may be of help.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Some manual will swag them for you. It may be cheaper to order a Lee sizer kit and siz3 them yourself. I’ve had a few older European cases even fail to chamber with the .311 size.
Lyman has a lot of data and the Cast bullet manual may be of help.

I read up more on this. It seems the safe bet is just to use .309 bullets with Euro cases.

Nobody seems to cast them that size.

Is it normal for companies to charge extra if you want their say, .313 bullets made for a you as .309?

 

[GarrettJ]

Before you make a bunch of changes, you might try loading a few dummy rounds with your regular .313" bullets. They might work just fine. Going to an undersized cast bullet is likely to give you a lot of leading in the bore.

As noted, Lee makes a swaging die that can be used to reduce the diameter of your bullets if needed. I have used one to reduce .32 bullets for use in subsonic lightweight .300 Whisper loads. That would be the approach I might take if seating in your brass ends up not working.

I've shot a fair number of .313" cast bullets in the .32 ACP with a bunch of mixed brass. Although going through what I have, I see i have mostly domestic (WW, R-P, etc) and Aguila brass.

I shoot mine through two different Beretta Tomcats as well as a Beretta 81BB. I use the 81 and one of the Tomcats for suppressor use. I've used Win 231, AA#2 and AA#5. I find my RCBS powder measure has a hard time throwing such small amounts of flake powder, so I've gotten away from 231 in this caliber. The fine ball powders throw very consistently even at the lower end (2. gr. give or take, depending on bullet weight).

 

[TTv2]

Unfortunately none of that brass is going to chamber with a .313" bullet. European 32ACP brass is thicker and is loaded with a .309" projectile.

If he uses a Lyman M Die or similar the neck will be opened up to allow the .313" bullet to be seated. The brass will likely bulge, which will require a run thru a Lee FCD.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Swagging bullets is something I haven't done.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I found Bear Creek makes coated, 80 gr, .311 bullets. Not sure about the price, yet.

 

[film495]

just try some magtech or US ammo that is loaded a bit lighter. you may get the results you want from different factory ammo. I played with loading .32 ACP, got it to work, and looked at how comfounded the process was and never did it again once I figured it out. custom this, mixed pieces of dies, and never mind - the 7.65 Browning, being the cartrdige likely stamped on the slide of your Beretta and CZ, which is mostly like .32 ACP, for the most part.

 

[Walkalong]

I bought some "factory seconds" 60 Gr JHPs that looked like XTPs. A bunch of them were .308 instead of .312 (.3125 at the pressure ring), and I
could not get adequate neck tension with them in my mixed cases, some of which are quite thick. No issues feeding, chambering, firing, etc.,
using the normal .312 JHPs and RN bullets.

 

[Shivahasagun]

just try some magtech or US ammo that is loaded a bit lighter. you may get the results you want from different factory ammo. I played with loading .32 ACP, got it to work, and looked at how comfounded the process was and never did it again once I figured it out. custom this, mixed pieces of dies, and never mind - the 7.65 Browning, being the cartrdige likely stamped on the slide of your Beretta and CZ, which is mostly like .32 ACP, for the most part.

That's something I'll seriously consider.

The only US ammo I tried was Blazer alluminum and it caused stoppages in the CZ, probably because it was weak. (I chronographed it and it was very mild)

How is the PMC? It's probably not made in the US but made to American specs. I'll look in to that.

I have cases of S&B, Geco, and Fiocchi ammo so if I did reload it I have free fired brass.

 

[BC17A]

If he uses a Lyman M Die or similar the neck will be opened up to allow the .313" bullet to be seated. The brass will likely bulge, which will require a run thru a Lee FCD.

Worst thing he could possibly do. A LFC die will swage the bullet and cause it to become loose in the case. Another option would be to use a .309" Lee bullet sizing die. Different ammo or Starline brass is what I'd suggest. Federal, Magtech, Aguila, and Winchester brass is thinner and works good with .312"-.313" projectiles.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

That's something I'll seriously consider.

The only US ammo I tried was Blazer alluminum and it caused stoppages in the CZ, probably because it was weak. (I chronographed it and it was very mild)

How is the PMC? It's probably not made in the US but made to American specs. I'll look in to that.

I have cases of S&B, Geco, and Fiocchi ammo so if I did reload it I have free fired brass.

I have a mix of European and American .32 autos. The CZ 50 will chamber and fire almost anything. The Savage 1910 really needs WW-white box or plain Remington green box. The FEG P37 will only feed Fiocchi FMJ.
I have an older Colt 1903 (pre-war) that will work fairly well with almost anything but the magazine is picky. It really prefers the thinner rims of Federal and Remington green box.
.32’s are just picky eaters in my experience. The one exception being the CZ 50/70.
Maybe invest in an inside neck cutter and thin the brass on the European cases if they’re too thick.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I have a mix of European and American .32 autos. The CZ 50 will chamber and fire almost anything. The Savage 1910 really needs WW-white box or plain Remington green box. The FEG P37 will only feed Fiocchi FMJ.
I have an older Colt 1903 (pre-war) that will work fairly well with almost anything but the magazine is picky. It really prefers the thinner rims of Federal and Remington green box.
.32’s are just picky eaters in my experience. The one exception being the CZ 50/70.
Maybe invest in an inside neck cutter and thin the brass on the European cases if they’re too thick.

Thanks! That's something I hadn't thought of. Sounds time-consuming though.

I looked at some old notes of my chronograph testing and found PPU, Geco (newer), and Blazer were all mild and averaged around 840 fps from my Beretta 81FS.

Fiocchi about 950 fps, and S&B 950-1005 fps depending on the batch. Buffalo Bore 75 gr averaged 965 fps. Underwood LeHigh 50 gr ( or 55 gr?) +P was exactly as advertised, a not very hot 1055 fps.

With my Allegheny Arms threaded barrel, which is tighter & longer, all loads I've tested gain about 100 fps! Yes, the hotter batch of S&B averages over 1100 fps! That & the Fiocchi feel close to .380 in recoil. Pretty snappy.

Which is why, with the addition of the suppressor, pressures & blow back are increased and the hotter .32 ammo feels a bit violent & abusive in this alloy pistol. Not as quiet as you'd expect, either.

I did install a fresh recoil spring and that certainly improved all of this. (They wear out quickly) before I order dies I'll fire the gun suppressed with the milder ammo.

Thing is, though, even if the gun shoots better with the mild ammo at 950 fps from the extended barrel & can, it would be even better & quieter with custom ammo at 750-850 fps and I'm sure the gun would cycle just fine.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks! That's something I hadn't thought of. Sounds time-consuming though.

I looked at some old notes of my chronograph testing and found PPU, Geco (newer), and Blazer were all mild and averaged around 840 fps from my Beretta 81FS.

Fiocchi about 950 fps, and S&B 950-1005 fps depending on the batch. Buffalo Bore 75 gr averaged 965 fps. Underwood LeHigh 50 gr ( or 55 gr?) +P was exactly as advertised, a not very hot 1055 fps.

With my Allegheny Arms threaded barrel, which is tighter & longer, all loads I've tested gain about 100 fps! Yes, the hotter batch of S&B averages over 1100 fps! That & the Fiocchi feel close to .380 in recoil. Pretty snappy.

Which is why, with the addition of the suppressor, pressures & blow back are increased and the hotter .32 ammo feels a bit violent & abusive in this alloy pistol. Not as quiet as you'd expect, either.

I did install a fresh recoil spring and that certainly improved all of this. (They wear out quickly) before I order dies I'll fire the gun suppressed with the milder ammo.

Thing is, though, even if the gun shoots better with the mild ammo at 950 fps from the extended barrel & can, it would be even better & quieter with custom ammo at 750-850 fps and I'm sure the gun would cycle just fine.

If I remember right the old Kynoch surplus 7.65m/m was under or around 800fps. I really miss that ammo. War time production probably for the Colt 1903 we sent to the UK lend-lease. Maybe for the Webley auto but I am not sure. It was very mild but accurate. The specs for most Kynoch war time loads are available online if you want to try some of them. I use the Kynoch .38/200 load in my Webley and Victory .38’s and it hits right on POA. I tried uploading my PDF but it’s too large. One thing, what I found is when Kynoch says “pistol smokeless” for powder, they mean the original Nobel Dynamite pistol powder, which is very close to Unique.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks! That's something I hadn't thought of. Sounds time-consuming though.

Yes but consider the source. I use a lathe to cut and custom shape 9m/m Makarov cases from junk 9m/m Luger cases.

 

[film495]

you might want to slug the bores on those firearms is a good suggestion. if you're going to reload for them. I'm sure I ended up swaging the bullets down to .310 when I slugged the bore on my CZ-70 and it was .308, and that solved being able to get the longer OAL I was looking for and still plunking in and out of the chamber correcty. I also remember RCBS sent me a die, maybe an expander or sizing, to get the case a little smaller so the bullet tension was enough with the smaller diameter bullet.

 

[Shivahasagun]

you might want to slug the bores on those firearms is a good suggestion. if you're going to reload for them. I'm sure I ended up swaging the bullets down to .310 when I slugged the bore on my CZ-70 and it was .308, and that solved being able to get the longer OAL I was looking for and still plunking in and out of the chamber correcty. I also remember RCBS sent me a die, maybe an expander or sizing, to get the case a little smaller so the bullet tension was enough with the smaller diameter bullet.

I just finished measuring.

The 81FS barrel bore was .3100. The 81BB the same.

The Allegheny Arms barrel is .3080.

The AA chamber is shorter, too. It barely plunks a Fiocchi fmj. This barrel barely fit in the gun at first. It's a precise, match-type barrel. That's probably another reason why it chronographs about 100 fps faster than Beretta barrels while only being a half-inch longer.

If I'm going to make ammo it would be for the AA barrel.

That means no long OAL cartridges and no bullets larger than .311, if that.

 

[Shivahasagun]

While I was at it I measured an M84 .380 barrel bore and it was .365 in.

IIRC when I checked my 92X 9x19 the bore was huge, like .375 in. Everything chronographs slow from it.