.32 acp rimlock

[Grigori Rasputin]

I am sorry, but I have to seriously disagree with the two posters who say that loading the magazine a certain way will eliminate rimlock.

I recently purchased my second KT .32. My first was the design that did not have the external hex screw holding the extractor in place. It fired everything I put in it (mostly ball and Gold Dots) without a hiccup and accuracy was good enough to keep all hits in the "bowling pin area" of a silhouette at 25 yds.

The one I bought a few days ago, NIB and just arrived at the dealer, is the newer configuration with the external hex screw holding the extractor in place. It, too, shot Serbian ball, Gold Dots, and Mag Safes without a hiccup.
After looking at the pics of expanded rounds and ballistic stats on "GoldenLoki.com", I decided that I wanted to try the Cor-Bon 60 gr HP's. About the second round into my first magazine of them, everything locked up. My magazine was locked up so badly, I had to disassemble it to fix the problem. I had a second magazine I had purchased with this gun and it, too, experienced rimlock after about the second shot. It, too, had to be completely disassembled to fix the lockup of cartridges.

The rangemaster where I was shooting explained the concept of rimlock to me and said I was loading the mags wrong. He showed me how to do it right and loaded them correctly as I watched. I thought this to be a really flimsy premise on which to stake one's life, with the rounds placed "just so" in the magazine. With variables like recoil, inertia from walking, sitting, running, falling, and other things, the potential for this precise alignment to be undone was more than probable, I thought. I appreciated his help, mind you, but the idea just did not sound like something to bet your life on. It wasn't.

I went back in to the booth and two rounds into each magazine, they were both locked up and needed disassembly, again. As I had suspected, recoil had knocked everything out of this precise alignment.

Just to be sure that nothing had changed with my gun or the mags, I fired a twenty round box of Gold Dots using both mags without a stutter. I traded the unopened box of Cor Bons for another box of Gold Dots.

The gun has been utterly reliable with everything I have run through it, except the Cor Bons. That is a real shame as the pics of expanded bullets and the 200+ fps difference in Cor Bons and the Gold Dots would have made them my choice load for the gun. Given their poor performance in my KT, I will stick with the Gold Dots. I can count on them to go bang and make a hole.

 

[jonnyc]

"I carry My KT p32 with 2 HPs, one in chamber, and one at the top of a magazine full of FMJ. I prefer the FMJ in .32 for better penetration and no rimlock concerns"

This post is 100% on. Rimlock is not a factor of care or skill in loading a mag, and it is truly an arrogant insult to state that it is. The design of some pistol mags is such that some shorter OAL rounds will jump under recoil and jam against the rims of their brothers and cousins. Simple problem to understand and deal with. Those who don't believe it exists are more at-risk than those who do.
Good luck.

 

[JohnBT]

I thought this was settled almost a decade ago on the KT forum, along about the time I bought my P-32. A few people made mag spacers for the short OAL HPs and a lot took to carrying ball ammo.

Early on I had two instances of rimlock and switched to ball ammo.

Has it really been that long? I had to look it up. The P-32 was introduced in 1999 and they've made a bunch...

"Number built - Over 280,000 of First Generation through 2005"

Mine is right around #12xxx.

John

 

[Jim K]

Most magazines are made so that FMJ is too long to rimlock, but of course everyone wants the short super hollow points that the maker says expand to at least 6 inches, so rimlock is back.

So why are .38 ACP (and .38 Super), .32 ACP, and .25 ACP semi-rimmed in the first place?

Because when Browning was trying to make an auto pistol work, the idea of supporting a case on its mouth never occurred to him. He started with a revolver cartridge and kept making the rim smaller and smaller until he got the ammo to feed and still had enough rim for support.

Along about 1904 or so, he saw a 9mm Luger and the light dawned, but by then even the .25 ACP was in the works.

The .380 ACP and .45 ACP, designed after the enlightenment, were rimless and straight, the latter an improvement on the 9mm Luger, which is tapered.

Jim

 

[JohnBT]

www.kel-tec-cnc.com/cart2/product_info.php?cPath=3_13&products_id=156

P32-314 7 rd Rim Lock Preventer $9.17
This product was added to our catalog on Sunday 01 February, 2009.

They were talking about this back at least as early as 2002 from what I can find with Google.

John

 

[gimlet1/21]

I only use FMJ in my KT-32, with this small a caliber HP's are useless. I use the remainder of them for target practice, and carry Rem. 71 gr. FMJ for defence.

 

[usp9]

Since this thread has been resurrected...

I should thank Onmilo for the heads up on the new redesigned CZ83 magazine. I didn't see the post back then and was unaware of this until now. My CZ83 is the only pistol I have that exhibits such a chronic problem. My other .32acp pistols, a Seecamp, Walther PP, and Sig P230 do not give me problems. I attribute this to the very roomy magazine of the CZ83, that allows rounds to shift.

 

[senior]

rimlock

My older KT 32 has rimlock each and everytime i load Hornady or RBCD HPs. Tried to load both my mags a dozen times with both and 1st rd will ALWAYS lock up and not load. Now i can load one rd in chamber and top rd in mag with HP ,then the rest FMJ, BUT can only load 6 rds i n the mag or it will again lock up. If I load FMJ i can load all 7 rds and works flawlessly! If its the springs, then i was burned with both mags as neither has more than 25-30 rds through them!

 

[BushyGuy]

my beretta tomcat hasnt rimlocked with silvertips or fmj i have a single stack magazine they shouldnt rimlock wiht hte factory magazines only the cheap imitations.

 

[Shadow 7D]

do +power mag springs help prevent rimlock, I know that the cz 83 mags have alot of rattle, loose bullets, in 9mak

 

[UniversalFrost]

carry a p32 on a daily basis and never had a problem with rimlock with the S&B FMJ's I use. have heard of problems with the HP's from american makers, but that is about it.

also if you google there is an interesting site on the 32acp and gel tests and shows all the current makers of 32acp out there with ballistics, etc.. and penetration tests with the gel made me even more confident in my S&B FMJ's as being superior for penetration and also KE over hollow points in this caliber.

JOE

 

[Blakenzy]

Because when Browning was trying to make an auto pistol work, the idea of supporting a case on its mouth never occurred to him[...] Along about 1904 or so, he saw a 9mm Luger and the light dawned, but by then even the .25 ACP was in the works.

WHAT!!! Do you mean JMB's devine vision wasn't perfect!?!?!!

 

[glassman]

I've experienced rimlock in my Tomcat using JHP on more than one occasion no matter how I loaded it. It's never happened with FMJ however. The frame also cracked after about 300 rounds. In fairness and to their credit, Beretta sent back an Inox version that has worked perfectly (using FMJ rounds). A lot has been written on this forum (both pro and con) about the .32 round and especially about the Tomcat. It might be worth a search before putting your money down. Best of luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Ron James]

It is indeed odd, I like the 32 caliber and never have had less than three in my ownership at any one time in the past 50 years. I had never even heard of the term rim lock until the last couple of years. In all the years I have been shooting the .32 ACP I have never had a Rim Lock. As stated, with all my shooting and reading I had never heard of such an event. Having 5ea .32's on hand, I took a box of ammo and did some testing, nope, only if you hold down the top round ( not easy to do ) can you slide a rim over a rim. Rims jumping over each other in recoil, never happened to me nor have i personally seen just a thing or know anyone who has seen such a thing.If someone says it happens , well I have no doubt it happens, but Me Myself and I, believe it is a non issue.

 

[jonnyc]

...til you have it happen! Then it's a big issue.

 

[Jim K]

Can I say (again and again!) to fire at least 200 consecutive rounds from a carry gun with the carry ammo and magazine(s). If you get a problem and think you have corrected it, start the count over.

As I said earlier, the problem is not the gun, it is the ammunition. I get tired of reading about people who carry guns they KNOW are prone to failure and yet won't spend enough money for even a reasonable amount of testing.

Jim

 

[orionengnr]

Why do first-time posters always resurrect old dead threads?

Do a search on KT.org; this subject has been well-documented. It's not rocket science.

A semi-rimmed cartridge is not a good choice for a semi-auto pistol. Workable, maybe, if you do it right.

Without (trying to) bash anyone's carry choice, I cannot see why anyone would choose a .32 over a .380, when they are essentially the same size/weight. I have owned both the P32 and P3AT and shooting them side by side, the recoil of the .32 seems about 1/3 of the .380.

Infer from that what you will, but after that experiment, I will never consider a .32.

Disclaimer: I consider a .380 marginal as a carry gun. I own an LCP but do not carry it. I may some day, but I will not go below that threshold.

 

[Willo]

I chose a .32 over a .380 because Seecamp doesn't offer .380 in a version that California has approved. And even if they did, I couldn't afford it.

So I do .32. Never a problem with rimlock, knock on wood. Quite honestly I can't see a huge difference between these mouse calibers anyway. You empty the entire gun into whomever happens to be on your arse, and you pray.

Anything less than .38 spl is suspect anyway. Sure 380 might give you a little better chance, but really... how many people here have ever had to draw a gun? How many have ever had to fire one? I'll take a small mouse gun in whatever caliber that's on me, rather than a .45 I left at home, when TSHTF. As long as I don't have to pick off a dude at 40 yards, I think most mouse guns will do pretty much the same thing: make the 'bad guy' start running. Asking much more from a handgun is asking a lot.

 

[PRM]

I have owned 3 Walther PP series pistols in .32 ACP.

My current primary carry gun is an Interarms Walther PPK/S in .32.

In addition, I have an NAA Guardian in .32 that accompanies me when concealment is a concern..


NONE OF THESE HAVE EVER RIM LOCKED USING BOTH HP AND FMJ ROUNDS. The round count is currently in the thousands.


There are enough post to assert it does happen ~ But, I have never experienced it, and this has been a favorite caliber of mine for well into 3 decades.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Another issue is that in the KT the slide can (and often does) "smiley" the top round under recoil before the barrel unlocks, and that can, will, make the shorter OAL cases 'hop' the second to top round and lock the gun.

Personally, I've done it intentionally, but being happy with FMJ and realizing that a pistol that is 100% with ball, isn't so with HP, I carry the top 2 HP, if I'm going to, feel like it, and the rest or all FMJ.

IF you want to carry HP's, flyerwire and the ramp job will help, as in, if done correctly make it damn near 100%, ramp job is reshaping the bottom of the ramp so it can't contact the top round during recoil, before the barrel unlocks.

PRM, I believe that the PP series is direct blow back, only the slide is moving, were as the KT, and clones (LCP etc.) have a machined lug locked breach (modified browning), and that and the semi rimmed case can cause problems, doubt its the mags, Mec Gar's are known for their quality.

 

[Onmilo]

I am still an arrogant bastard that says if you load the magazine carefully and stop trying to turn a .32 acp into a .357 Magnum with wonder bullet super star point hollowtip ammunition you won't have any issues with rimlock.

Hollowpoints are a stupid idea in a .32 acp, stick with hot FMJ ball ammo such as Sellier and Bellot or Geco, Aguila actually isn't bad either if you can find it.

I still have my Kel-Tec P32, still have my 7.65 CZ83, and a couple of Walther PPs along with several other .32 acp pistols, you see, I collect the damned things.

Still have yet to experience another rimlock issue since that blunder with my P32.

Most Europeans choose .32 acp pistols over .380acp calibered pistols even today because they consider the .32 MORE reliable than the .380!

It amazes me to this day how American marketing can take a good thing and completely screw it up by offering overpriced crap ammo either intentionally to dissuade potential buyers and lead them to something they would rather sell or because they are trying to corner a market with whatever wonder item, new and improved for your convenience, they are pushing as flavor of the week.

Stick with FMJ and load your magazines with care or get out of shooting .32 acp, it isn't the caliber for you.

 

[thunder173]

My every day CC for about 15 years was a Walther PP in .32 ACP. I never once experienced rimlock with it, and I ran several thousands of rounds through that pistol,..using many different brands of ammo, both Euro and US made.

I may have been just lucky,..or not. But ultimately you have to chose. If it's gotta be a
.32,..get one and use it,... until YOU feel it's reliable. If it is,...you keep it. If it's not,..you either fix it,..if fixing is possible,..or you get rid of it.

You pays yer money,.. ya takes yer chances.....and hope you get a good one.

YMMV

 

[LawofThirds]

I've gotten it to happen once in a Colt 1903. You have to smack the previous round forward in the magazine and then push the next one in until it "clicks" over the rim, it's pretty hard to do.

 

[dogrunner]

Never a hitch with my NAA.............! I gotta go with the arrogant bastard.........learn HOW to load and use your weapon in the first place!

 

[lloveless]

I have a KT p-32, cause they didn't make the 3AT til several years later. My son has the 3AT and it HURTS to shoot it (by the way I shoot .357's and .44 mags without problem). Never had a problem with rimlock. My father had a.32 ACP JAGUAR from France. We didn't shoot the JAGUAR but a time or two, but no rimlock there either. There are those who passionately plead the rimlock cause. I have put more than 200 rounds through my p32 without a problem. I carry it. I have made the concession of carrying with a HP in the spout and first cartridge in the mag a HP. The rest are fmj, which according to the pro-rimlock are also prone to rimlock. Mine hasn't/doesn't maybe it has tighter tolerances?
ll