32 H&R Mag Opinions

[P. Plainsman]

In a smaller 2" gun with factory loads, I think the .32M is outclassed by the .380.

However, with a longer barrel, a .32M can outclass a .380, which is what I said originally.

Just to be clear, all the .32 Mag ballistic info that I cited was from 2" snubby revolver barrels, not long barrels. The GA 100 grain rounds have been chronographed to produce almost 1000 fps from a snubby.

For example, a 2" Taurus .32M against a Firestorm or Bersa .380. Similar size and weight guns, but the .380 is going to be more potent with factory ammo, IMO.

No, the Taurus is several ounces lighter than those .380s. And if you pick a 13.5 oz S&W 431PD as your .32 revolver for the comparison, then it's much lighter. The Bersa weighs 23 oz empty; it is 70% heavier than the S&W revolver. A significant difference, especially for pocket or ankle carry.

That's what's intriguing about the lightweight .32 Magnum snubbies -- properly loaded, they offer the same (not less) bullet mass and velocity as a .380 pistol, plus the reliability of a revolver, for much less (not the same) weight than the .380 pistols.

On the other hand, the .380 pistol gives you two extra rounds to begin with and one extra round on the reload, it shoots a wider bullet, and good examples are typically easier to shoot well than a snubnosed revolver. A new Bersa is also a good deal cheaper than a S&W 431/432, and somewhat cheaper than a .32 Taurus snubby.

 

[wbond]

Bersa and Firestorm .380s are 9+1 with right mag.

I've also seen a 10+1 mag that's the same size. I don't know how that is done, but it is.

With the 7+1 mag the gun is smaller, but there is also an 8+1 mag that is the same size as the 7+1.

I'm quite intrigued by the 8+1 mag since it's smaller than the 9+1 or 10+1.

As for gun weight, yes the Taurus .32M is a little lighter than a Firestorm or Bersa .380, but I don't find it signifigantly so. I've handled both. That said, I'd really love to buy the Taurus for my collection.

However, I'd much rather have my Firestorm .380 with an 8+1 or 10+1 mag than a Taurus .32M with 6 rounds.

 

[wbond]

.32M velocity from 2"

I still think that 1100 fps from factory ammo 85 gr .32M with 2" barrel is wishful thinking. I don't know of any factory ammo maker that even claims that, let alone delivers it. This is what I was referrring to when I said it appears that stats for 5" and 6" barrels are being misquoted as coming from 2" barrel. I stand by that until someone takes a chronograph and shows otherwise.

I think 1040 fps is reasonable for factory ammo 85 gr .32M from a 2" barrel.

Factory ammo only please. Reloads would also be interesting, but my statement was based on factory ammo. Let's one of us get a chrono and test some factory ammo.

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P.S. - I notice no one wants the free ammo I offered. I find that interesting since I don't want it either. If no one wants the Georgia Arms stuff for free, then why even quote their stuff for .32M stats?

 

[Hammerdown]

Hello wbond
I read your responses and was a bit confused at the statements on Factory ammo, so looked up the Current ballistics information on the Federal web page. I chose Federal as they are the Only current leading manufacture of the .32 H&R magnum, and were the ones who designed and developed the load from the begining. The upper performance level achieved with the .32 H&R magnum round is hard to prove in comparison to the other two rounds as there are very few manufactures that make handguns that offer this round in different barrel lengths, or they offer Light weight revolver's that will exibit much more recoil than the stainless models or carbon steel blued models like I showed above.If we look closly at MOST factory ballistics on the .380 ACP. caliber they were obtained from a barrel length of 3.75" which to me is alot closer to a 4" barreled gun than a 2" model. Below is Ballistic tables showing the three rounds you seem to be comparing here. Because of big differences in Bullet diameter we can NOT fairly compare them as well. This difference alone would greatly effect velocity along with recoil felt. To make our finding's fair across the board we NEED to have THREE things the same here, and I am NOT seeing that but being Bullet diameter, Weight of weapon used, and Barrel length all being the same for all practible purposes when looking at these three rounds in comparison.One factor that places the .32 H&R magnum a tad behind the other's noted here is Federal designed this round for a handgun of lighter action. I am not saying there is a thing wrong with an H&R revolver, but they can not compare to say a S&W, Ruger, Tauras and such in the durability arena hence the cartridge suffered it's FULL potential from the start and Most that enjoy and shoot this round often, have swung over to handloading for it because of this issue.I will also add that my S&W revolver shown weighs in at 43 Ounces and this makes for a pussycat on recoil when comparing it with any of the current revolvers made, and if recoil is an issue the .32 S&W long round is very mild. I hope this Factory load information will prove there is a notable difference when we look at the .32 Magnum, Which to me is ahead in all areas shown even Factory loaded and the Original poster was asking questions on The "32H&R Magnum" RELOADED in this thread any ways wasn't He. Take care, Hammerdown.



32 H&R MAGNUM JHP
PERSONAL DEFENSE HANDGUN

Federal Load No.C32HRB
Factory Primer No.100
Caliber .32 H&R Magnum
Bullet Weight 85 Grains
Bullet style JHP
Use 6

Velocity in Feet Per Second

Muzzle-1120
25-1067
50-1023
75-986
100-953

Energy in Foot Pounds

Muzzle-237
25-215
50-197
75-183
100-171

38 SPECIAL +P HYDRA-SHOK JHP
PREMIUM PERSONAL DEFENSE

Federal Load No.+P HV
Factory Primer No.P38HS1
Caliber 38 Special +P
Bullet Weight 129
Bullet style-Hydra-Shok JHP
Use 6
T.B*6
Velocity in Feet Per Second

Muzzle-950
25-926
50-904
75- 884
100- 865
Energy in Foot Pounds
Muzzle
25-258
50-246
75- 234
100-214
380 AUTO (9X17MM SHORT) HYDRA-SHOK JHP
PREMIUM PERSONAL DEFENSE

Federal Load No.PD380HS1H
Factory Primer No.100
Caliber 380 Auto (9x17mm Short)
Bullet Weight 90
Bullet style Hydra-Shok JHP
Use 6

Velocity in Feet Per Second
Muzzle-1000
25- 953
50- 914
75-879
100- 847
Energy in Foot Pounds
Muzzle-200
25-182
50- 167
75-154
100-143

 

[cocojo]

Well a lot has been said about the 32 Mag round. Personally I don't see much difference between the 32 Mag and the 380 other than width. Both rounds seem to do about the same thing out of smaller size weapons. The 380 doesn't seem to penetrate deep enough, when HP's are used and the 85HP federal 32 penetrates deeper but does not expand as well. My feeling is that I don't think that you could tell one bit of difference in the crush cavity of the two rounds in ballistic gell or the human body. As for the 38 special goes, you have a heavier bullet, which goes in deeper and expands well out of a 2 inch, as in the Speer short barrel loadings or the 158 SWCHP's. Momentum is on the side of the 38 special. Weight, penetration depth and momentum are big factors on the side of the 38 special. That's what make the 45 so great, not velocity. I really think that the 32 mag and the 380 need better bullet designs, like the 38 special has received. I feel that the 32 mag would fair better than the 380 in regards to this, much better sectional density. Some may agree with me and some may not, but I feel that penetration to reach deep inside, momentum and weight with good expansion are key elements in choosing a round.

 

[wbond]

I conclude with this:

Other than a slight weight difference, a 2" barrel snubby is very similar in size to a 3.5" barrel .380, except the .380 is thinner.

But enough of this.

I still find it interesting that no one wants the .32M free Georgia Arms ammo I offered (250 rounds, you pay shipping). I don't want it because I think it's to dirty. I prefer Federal, Stars and Stripes, or possibly Texas Ammo.

If anyone decides they want my 250 rounds of Georgira Arms 85 gr JHP .32 Mag ammo, then please send me a private message because I doubt I will return to this thread.

I'm going to start spending more time at the range and less time online.

Thanks

 

[P. Plainsman]

I really think that the 32 mag and the 380 need better bullet designs, like the 38 special has received.

Agreed. I will say that today the .380 is doing better than the .32 Mag in this regard; several of the majors load their premium defense/LE hollowpoint in a .380 format. With the .32 Mag you are pretty much stuck with the Hornady XTP or the old-tech 100 gr Speer JHP that Georgia Arms uses. The Hornady is not a terrible choice for a mousegun round, though -- it favors penetration over expansion more than competing JHPs, and you do need penetration with a small cartridge.

Jim March has a clever marketing plan for boosting interest in the .32 Mag that hinges on a company like Cor-Bon marketing a "bad news" .32 load for concealment revolvers, one that would combine a reasonably hot charge (like the Georgia Arms) load with a custom-tailored expanding bullet. Then take out ads marketing the ammo and the little sixgun together as a package. This sounds awfully sensible to me.

I feel that the 32 mag would fair better than the 380 [with good loads], much better sectional density.

Maybe. Don't know.

I still find it interesting that no one wants the .32M free Georgia Arms ammo I offered (250 rounds, you pay shipping).

Whoa! Didn't see that! I'll take it. I like that stuff.

Hmm, there could be a wrinkle in shipping it to me; let me follow up with you privately in a spell.

I'm going to start spending more time at the range and less time online.

That's sage advice. Work forced me to skip a planned shootin' session this weekend and that always makes me cranky. This crankiness lasts until around Thursday, when I start to look forward to the next weekend's range trip ...

 

[pauli]

i've pondered a 32 mag snubby; it would seem to be quite suitable as a pocket gun to take while running.

 

[Stainz]

I generally have only the highest of praise for GA Arms ammo. I am just not so sure about the .32M 100gr JHP's... they are really hot and nasty... and, maybe sized a bit small (Mic-ed new cartridges revealed GA Arms to be .0004", average, smaller in OD just ahead of the rim than Magtech 98gr LRN .32 S&WL's.). I chrono-ed them yesterday, admittedly in bright sunlight where some other caliber rounds were chrono-ing 2-4% lower than in dull overcast, to get 1117 fps SD +/- 17 fps for the .32M's; 636 fps SD +/- 24 fps for the .32 S&WL's - all from my month-old SS 4.6" BHG SSM . The Magtech's literally fell out, cylinderfull after cylinderfull; the GA Arms fouled the ejector rod's exit from the first round on of the .32M's, making said rod useless after the first cylinderfull... subsequent reloads required the removal of the cylinder... which also became difficult after a few of the .32M's, again, due to fouling. Thinking my SSM was at fault, I had already de-burred and polished the frame holes for the base pin and ejector rod. It's those nasty .32M's!

Effectiveness? I had a bunch of 2L pop bottles full of water set on a steel plate rack for 'reactive' targets. I shot my favorite protective round - a .38 Special +P 158gr LHPSWC from my 2" 10 - 834 fps. Ho hum... small entry, slightly larger exit; bottle rocked, water ran out unimpressively. I tried 230gr FMJ .45ACP @ 810 fps, 255gr LSWC .45AR @ 865 fps, 158gr FP @ 815 fps - similar results. Finally, a GA Arms .32M... wow! Central portion of top blew out - with some water spout. Small entry, large exit - huge gush of water as bottle remnants flew off the rack. I was impressed... if I am ever the victim of marauding 2L pop bottles full of water, that .32M may be the answer... as long as I don't need to reload that cylinder rapidly - or recycle those cases - they all had a small bulge just ahead of the rim. Also, good glasses are a must - they spit... the Magtech's were fine. YMMV.

Stainz

 

[cookekdjr]

If anyone decides they want my 250 rounds of Georgira Arms 85 gr JHP .32 Mag ammo, then please send me a private message because I doubt I will return to this thread.
wbond,
Pm sent. I'll take it.

 

[P. Plainsman]

I am just not so sure about the .32M 100gr JHP's... they are really hot and nasty... and, maybe sized a bit small [...]. I chrono-ed them yesterday, [...] to get 1117 fps SD +/- 17 fps for the .32M's; 636 fps SD +/- 24 fps for the .32 S&WL's - all from my month-old SS 4.6" BHG SSM .
[T]he GA Arms fouled the ejector rod's exit from the first round on of the .32M's, making said rod useless after the first cylinderfull... subsequent reloads required the removal of the cylinder... which also became difficult after a few of the .32M's, again, due to fouling. Thinking my SSM was at fault, I had already de-burred and polished the frame holes for the base pin and ejector rod. It's those nasty .32M's!

Very useful data, Stainz; thanks for reporting it.

Most interesting. The stuff seems to behave differently in the Single Six and in my SP101. Doesn't feel too hot, doesn't spit, a little dirty but doesn't impede the gun's working, except that after I fire 30 or 40 rounds a couple of the chambers start to get tight. At that point a sharp, deliberate tap on the ejector rod will drop the empties.

100 @ 1117 fps from a 4 1/2" barrel is nice.

I wish Speer would make a 100 grain version of its .32 Gold Dot bullet for the little magnum.

 

[wbond]

Another conclusion.

I made a conclusion post before, but then got a lot of private messages wanting the free 250 rounds of free Georgia Arms 85 gr JHP.

That was a first come, first serve offer. The person who sent me a private message first has got dibs on it now. So for the rest of you, sorry but it's taken now.

========================================

FYI - I've found the Federal .32M to very clean. My Ruger SP101 is very clean after 100 rounds and all spent Federal rounds still eject easily.

I also found that 12 rounds of GA 85 gr JHP made my SP101 so dirty that it looked like I'd been firing black powder. The cases no longer ejected from some cylinders. What a freakin mess.

So for the person who's getting the 250 rounds of GA free, I hope you enjoy, but I don't see the attraction.

For the rest of you, you really aren't missing much. So don't feel bad.

================================================

Federal makes excellent, clean .32 Mag Ammo, which can be bought cheap online from places like http://www.midwayusa.com and others.

Stars and Stripes Ammo and Texas Ammo are also reputed to make excellent, clean .32M ammo.

Why in heck would you want to shoot very dirty GA ammo? It isn't that much cheaper than the other brands of ammo available online.

Oh well. To each his own.

I bid you all adeu. I'm not French (thankfully), so I probably misspelled that.

=============================================

It's not to late to make a new years resolution. Mine is to spend more time at the gun range and to spend much less time online. Since I have a computer related job, I spend plenty of time at work online as it is. I shoud have my head examined for doing it on my free time. No more. I vow to not go to High Road or Bersa Talk more than once every other month from now on. So help me God.

 

[Stainz]

Well, I messed up big time... and ordered dies, lead, brass, and a shellplate for my 550 from Dillon... added some other goodies. That's $200 I should have kept - and just sold the BHG SSM. Still need to empty over 250 rounds of the G.A. 100gr-ers... that's a lot of cleaning. Basically, that closeout priced SSM was no bargain... and I'd advise others to just stick with a .38!

Stainz

 

[Hammerdown]

The . 32 H&R magnum

Hello Stainz
I am a bit confused and do not know what handgun you were firing these.32 H&R magnums from, but do Know until I had my model 16-4 did not find satisfaction in the round for tight groups with smaller framed revolver's. This revolver made the difference and S&W did WELL on this strong framed Target model. I am pleased with the groups it print's but have noticed this infamous round will NOT perform well, unless Pushed hard. I feel comfortable using the size frame the 16's have as They are durable and I doubt you could hurt one handloading this smaller magnum as on the upper limits for this round. I would be interested in knowing what handgun you had that showed poor performance from this round as well.Take care Hammerdown

 

[Stainz]

The SA revolver I use is a SS 4.6" Ruger SSM (Single Six .32 H&RM) with a Bird's Head Grip, purchased several weeks ago from Davidson's, who is the 'closeout' source for these Rugers. I have mic-ed the rounds, new and used, and found the GA Arms .32M fresh ammo OD to be 0.3333-0.3335"; increasing to 0.3370" at the bulges when fired - which actually 'looked' worse. The spent cases, ahead of the bulge, was still nearly 0.3340" - which was about what the Magtech .32 S&WL rounds measured before and after firing. Those .32 S&WL's are quite mild - actually chronoed 644 fps vs the .32M's 1,117 fps.

I took a sample of each bullet apart. The Magtech .32 S&WL has a 96-98gr LRN of 0.312" OD (max) while the .32M had a JHP of similar mass - 99-100gr - and measured an extreme OD of 0.312". The powder in the Magtech .32 S&WL weighed 2.3gr and was a dark grey ball-structure. The .32M's of GA Arms had a whopping 8.7gr of what actually looked like very fine, ie flash pan, blackpowder (Although I know it wasn't!). Incidently, I have used a lot of W231/HP38 & Titegroup... and never put that much powder in a case!

Stainz

PS The proper OD for .32 S&WL and .32 H&RM is 0.337".