.32 Winchester Special

[Dr T]

I recently came across a Marlin 336 rifle (long barrel, short magazine, pistol grip stock) for a shade under $500. While I have several 30-30s, it started me wondering about this particular combination.

On the one hand, it is fairly unusual and would be an interesting addition. However, I prefer that all of my rifles be able to shoot well.

On the other hand, the ammo is likely to be difficult to find.

Does anyone have any experience with either this configuration of the 336 or the .32 Winchester Special in general?

 

[hardluk1]

A old hunting friend used a 32winnysp for some years . It as as good as a 30-30 for his needs. Killed a bunch of deer some hogs and a couple bears with it. I thinks its place is more for the bear as a wider bullet compared to the 30-30. A quick check show all the major ammo companies product 32wni sp still . You won't find it as easily as a box of 308 or 30 -30 but it is avalible. Put a larger order covering any needs for you and family and pick up what you think you need in 32win sp with a online order. Or start with a very basic lee kit and roll your own for the 32 and 30-30

 

[hartcreek]

I have loaded it for more then two deckades. I simply neck up 30-30 brass using RCBS 32 WCF dies. I use a Lee 8mm bullet mold and gascheck the bullets. I also have loaded 8mm spitzers for single loading. I bought 500 jacket bullets from Natches more then a deckade ago to use for hunting only and I still have several hundred in boxes....No you can order your own......

The 32 WCF uses a slower twist rate then 30-30 so inspect the bore well. There really is no difference between the two cartridges powerwise

 

[W.E.G.]

Its too bad nobody seems to know for sure why the .32 Special was even invented.

My guess is that it was just a marketing thing.
.32 sounds bigger and badder than .30 - whether it actually is or not.

Good information about bullet construction and bullet performance was harder to get back then.

Today, the .32 Spl. is a good example of the history of lever guns.

 

[BWB]

Originating in the early days smokeless powders, before handloading with it became safe and normal, it was intended to be reloaded with black, which everyone knew how to do. Hence the 1 in 16" twist and perhaps the slightly larger bore.
Even so, why Winchester introduced another cartridge so similar to the .30 WCF remains something of a mystery.
They are ballistically identical, and the .32 SPL's I've owned shot very well with factory ammo and handloads with the nominal 170 gr flat nose bullets.

 

[W.E.G.]

it was intended to be reloaded with black

Sure about that are you?

See http://www.levergun.com/articles/special.htm

Several years ago, I came upon a copy of Winchester's 1916 catalogue. Imagine my surprise when I found the following detailed explanation as to why Winchester had introduced the 32 Winchester Special:

The .32 Winchester Special cartridge, which we have perfected, is offered to meet the demand of many sportsmen for a smokeless powder cartridge of larger caliber than the .30 Winchester [original name for the 30-30] and yet not so powerful as the .30 Army [now known as the 30-40 Krag].

That was the entire explanation! There was not so much as a hint about any connection to using blackpowder reloads, facilitating handloading or other such nonsense!

The catalogue went on with a simple explanation of why the 32 WS was able to deliver a significant increase in power, when loaded at the same pressure, compared to the 30-30. Published ballistics in that catalogue verified this claim. The 32 WS was credited with generating about 10.6% more muzzle energy than its progenitor.

After considering pertinent facts and upon reflection, I suspect most would agree: The evidently invented story is unfounded, perhaps even a bit ridiculous.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I have a Winchester 94 in 32 Winchester Special and I enjoy it a good deal. I don't think it really has any advantages over .30-30 but if you reload then it really isn't more expensive to shoot than .30-30. You will have more bullet selection for .30-30 though. The blackpowder reloading story is an often cited fallacy but while it may not be the reason for the creation of the caliber, but the calier does lend itself well to reloading with blackpowder and so it remains a nice side benefit. I have loaded some with blackpowder in the past and it's a lot of fun as well.

 

[hartcreek]

How you figure that you can have more load options for a 30-30 verses a 32 Winchester when with both you have to avoid spitzers in the tubes to avoid chain fire.

There are plenty of bullets for the .32 in round nose, flat points and hollow stuffing the first one in the chamber spitzers.

If the bullet will work for a .32-20 or an 8mm you sure have plenty of options

 

[BWB]

W.E.G
Before you get too far out on the end of your sanctimonious board you may wish to read the following carefully:

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=32&magid=7

 

[Loc n Load]

Winchester 32

I also have 32 94 that a friend of mine discovered walled up in the back of a closet in a house they were dismantling....it has the recvr mounted peep sight on it and I have handloaded for it as well....it shoots as well as my 30-30's and if it were legal to deer hunt with it, I would.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Neither the 30-30 or the 32 special was intended to be loaded with black powder and they never were. The 30-30 was named using the same convention as many of the black powder cartridges that existed when smokeless powder came on the scene. An example was the 45-70 or 45 caliber and 70 grains of BP. The case of the 30-30 was the size that would have been used for 30 grains of BP. The 32 special was a popular cartridge in the NE for bear and moose in the woods. The 30-40 was more popular in the west as it had a little better range, but not much.

 

[BWB]

You are correct; neither was intended to be nor ever was factory loaded with black powder.
But as the link above proves, the .32 Spl was indeed intended to be field reloaded with black, while that was not recommended for the 30-30.

 

[Onmilo]

Winchester offered the .32 Special specifically for people who intended to handload/reload.
The .30/30 was offered only as a factory loaded cartridge for the first several years after introduction and handloading tools and components were not available in any real quantities until about 1903-1905 era.

 

[Edarnold]

I suspect a critical factor for the .32 Special was the the familiar bullet diameter: at .321, it was the same as the very popular .32-40, which had a great reputation for accuracy in target rifles of the '80's and 90's. If you had bullet moulds for the .32-40, you were set for midrange loads, while the .30-30 was an odd-ball size that matched nothing but the new and scarce .30-40. We have to lose the mindset that ".30 caliber" was a default standard, because in the mid-90's it was anything but.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I found a model 32 special 94 Eastern carbine that was just like the one a cousin had loaned me for my first deer hunt many years ago. I carried it all last season but didn't get a shot.
I like it for the sentimental value and it's a good shooter as well.

 

[twofifty]

I suspect a critical factor for the .32 Special was the the familiar bullet diameter: at .321, it was the same as the very popular .32-40, which had a great reputation for accuracy in target rifles of the '80's and 90's. If you had bullet moulds for the .32-40, you were set for midrange loads, while the .30-30 was an odd-ball size that matched nothing but the new and scarce .30-40. We have to lose the mindset that ".30 caliber" was a default standard, because in the mid-90's it was anything but.

thanks for that insight about 30 cal then being the new kid on the block.

 

[Doc.Holliday]

I reload with cast bullets for both calibers in similar vintage and condition pre 64 Winchester carbines. My 32spl. shoots more accurately than my 30-30 and I suspect it is the rate of twist with cast loads.
In my neck of the woods the old timers preferred the 32 for moose over the 30-30
Doc.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

How you figure that you can have more load options for a 30-30 verses a 32 Winchester when with both you have to avoid spitzers in the tubes to avoid chain fire.

There are plenty of bullets for the .32 in round nose, flat points and hollow stuffing the first one in the chamber spitzers.

If the bullet will work for a .32-20 or an 8mm you sure have plenty of options

32 Special uses a .321 bullet. .32-20 is quite undersized at .313 and 8mm (Mauer and Steyr) is almost always going to be a spitzer bullet. You could probably make 32-40 work (.322-323) though. That said, Midway has 4 bullet choices for 32 Special and 4 for 32-40, so let's say 8 options total. Midway has 269 options available for .308-.311 (suitable for 30-30). Even if you discount the spitzers, there's still way more than 8 options. All of this is of course a moot point if the OP plans to cast his own (which is generally what I do) but I just wanted to give a head's up in case he wasn't planning on it.

 

[SwampWolf]

Very informative article, BWB. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I have all of the Rifle magazines and most of the Handloader magazines. Imo, these two publications are the best around for good, solid data and insights on guns and loads. Some might find the following two "old time" authors' perspectives on the .32 Special cartridge interesting, if not informative (much of which has already been recounted by previous posters in this thread):

Jack O'Connor, in his book "The Hunting Rifle" opined: "...The .32 Winchester Special is ballistically just about identical with the .30/30, except for a slightly larger bullet at a slightly higher velocity. It was designed for those who wanted to buy a smokeless-powder rifle but reload the cartridges with black powder. Barrels for the .32 Special had a 1-16 twist instead of the 1-12 of the .30/30. Because of the sharper twist, old .30/30's with worn and rusted barrels will still shoot pretty well, but .32 Specials in the same condition throw all their bullets all over the paper..."

Henry M. Stebbins, in his book "Rifles, A Modern Encyclopedia" wrote: "...It is special, too. The 16-inch twist lets us shoot black powder in it if we have to or want to use it behind cast lead. With smokeless the plain-based lead, without gas-checks, goes at pretty fair speed before it fouls up the rifling grooves. 'Way back, .32 Special factory velocity was some 100 f.s. ahead of the 30-30s, and perhaps a difference in killing power could be noted in 100 or more carefully autopsied deer...
"...One advantage claimed for the .30-30 is that a badly rusted barrel will still spin bullets out with fair accuracy. Few of us have to hunt with such barrels, and the slow .32 twist makes for a little longer life.
"So it's a toss-up. Unless we take a light a rifle as the .30-30 to the far north, where ammo for it is practically currency, or unless we want factory-loaded full-jacketed or varmint rounds, the .32 is as good a choice as the .30. The lower sectional density of its bullets means little."

 

[BWB]

Good stuff too. The old timers we old timers grew up with knew what they were doing, and their perspectives are just as valuable today.
My first deer rifle was a gift from my father when I was eleven, a Winchester Model 64 .32 Special. You saw a lot of .32's (almost all '94's) in New England deer camps long ago, but the 30-30 was still very much the majority back then, with the 35 Remington and .32 Special about tied for second. Once in a while a 38-55 or 32-40. They all killed those big bucks with certainty if shot well, and I doubt the unfortunate deer could tell the difference.
We of the .32 Special persuasion were good at convincing ourselves it was somehow better than the 30-30, but that was just ignorance. We also argued endlessly about whether Johnson outboards were better than Evinrude, until we found out they were the same motors with different paint and trim.:banghead:

 

[Sergei Mosin]

My great-grandfather had a Model 94 saddle ring carbine in .32 Winchester Special. We think it might have been a Christmas/birthday gift from his parents when he was a young man, about 1921 (his birthday was in December.) He used it for deer and bear in Pennsylvania; I think he switched to a bolt-action in later years and my grandmother and father used the Model 94. I have it now, and someday hope to pass it on to my descendants.

 

[SwampWolf]

We also argued endlessly about whether Johnson outboards were better than Evinrude, until we found out they were the same motors with different paint and trim.

That's been true for decades (OMC) but I'm pretty sure they started out as different companies and made different engines for some time. Luckily, I've always been a Mercury man-that is, until the Mariners showed up...

 

[Dframe]

I've never owned a .32 but people whos opinion I value HIGHLY claim it's the greatest deer cartridge ever. I'll not dispute them.

 

[Onmilo]

Dframe
.32 Specials were even more popular than Savage 99s up in Northern Wisconsin back in the mid 70s and 99s were THE Deer gun up there at the time.

 

[toiville2feathers]

I was told that the 32 spec. was competition for the 35 REM. The 30WCF was the new kid on the block. Winchester came out with the 32 special because Remington was working on the new auto and the 30 rem, 32 rem and 35 rem.
I have no documentation for that statement, other than numerous card game, deer camp conversations in several old deer camps, dating back 60 years ago when I was a pup and those making the statement were considered to be very accurate an old sages.