35 whelen misfire problems

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Zoer

Zoer

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I have newly rebarreld 35 whelen that has misfire issues with reloads but not factory ammo. Only difference in the rounds is that the factory ammo has a slight roll crimp. Is that a big enough difference to cause misfires?
 
What do your primer strikes look like, which primers are you using, and what powder, bullets? Could be a number of issues, pictures of miss fires could help. Also what kinda rifle?
 
The crimp should not be a problem. Compare the head to datum measurements of the factory ammo to reloads. The shoulder of the reloads might be pushed back to far on sizing. Hows the headspace on the new barrel?
 
I have tried three different primers. Same results. About one in five
Shots is a misfire The shoulder on the reloads is exactly the same as the federal factory rounds that always go off. I don't have anyway of measuring headspace The rifle is a pre 64 win with a new shilen barrel that is resonantly accurate when it wants to fire. I have been a reloader for years and have never had a problem as stubborn as this
 
Headspace problem?

Try neck sizing. Or back the full length sizing die out so there is a gap of .010" between die and shell holder. Size 3 fired brass. See how they chamber. When you close the bolt, you want a crush fit. But dont force the bolt. If they chamber hard, set a .005" gap .
 
Some of the rounds will fire if given a second chance. I take great pains to seat the primers in and haven't ever had a problem in any other rifle. I also had the firing pin and spring replaced.
 
OAL

Light primer striking misfires.
I just wanted to pass this along for something to consider if you are having misfires with your reloads. I am loading 25.06 remington brass, CCI200 primers and 117 grain Sierra Game King bullets.
Only a very low percentage of the loads actually fired. My first thought was primer seating issues but everything I read steered my away from that. The problem turned out to be the bullets were seated out a smidge too far. I had partially neck sized an empty case then stuck a bullet in the mouth and chambered it, then measure the COAL with calipers to determine COAL for this bullet in this gun. I loaded 4 groups of 3 at 1/2 grain intervals looking for the best group.
When chambering these loads, the bolt locked without any tighteness, but when the firing pin struck the primer, the cartridges were acutally moving forward on the bullet as it was already touching the lands. Factory rounds fired fine. Primed brass with no bullet fired fine. I finally seated the bullets .01 deeper and they all fired fine with no problem. I hope this helps someone else somewhere down the road. Happy Loading!
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Click to expand...
From link http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=689597
 
243winxb. That is something I had not thought of and makes sense I will try seating the bullets a bit deeper and see what happens. My reloads are seated right at the lands and the factory rounds aren't I also never have problems with just a primer and no bullet.
 
I am just hoping to find a solution that doesn't mean I have a head spacing issue But if I have a head spacing issue why don't have I a problem with factory ammo or a bullet less case?
 
One of the biggest dis-services done to reloaders is the content talk about needing to seat the bullet just off the lands for accuracy. If that were truly necessary how in the world would ammo manufacturers be able to produce very accurate match ammo? Yes, when shooting benchrest you want every advantage possible and very slight improvements in accuracy will help win a match but I do not believe this is necessary with a hunting rifle. Doing so usually causes more problems than not and with little to no accuracy increase.

Just a note, Weatherby rifles are considered some of the most accurate factory rifles available yet all of their rifles have long leads so seating the bullet just off the lands is not possible most times.
 
Zoer try running a primed case thru ur seating die sans bullet and seeing if the rifle willl set off the primer. Also how much force does it take to seat a bullet? I keep coming back to an induced headspace issue being the likely culprit...honestly bullet seeting depth shouldnt affect ignition of the primer, and if your getting them to pop on the second try most likely ur getting a weak strike for some reason or another.
 
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Loonwulf. I will try your suggestion I had the firing Pin and spring replaced when the rifle was rebarreld so I am just confused as hell to say the least
 
Just to be sure perhaps check your firing pin protrusion, replacement may have been out of spec slightly, again dosent seem likely but possible
 
Zoer .... Have you even considered what I suggested in post #6 ...

My opinion is that you are over sizing your brass just slightly and the primer is not getting a solid enough blow ....

Give this a try .... back your die out of your press a turn or so .... take a fired case size it ....place the sized case in your chamber... the bolt should not close ....turn the die in a small amount ... try the empty case in the chamber again .... color the entire shoulder of the case with a black magic marker ... you should see where the brass and chamber meets ... the black will be removed or smeared ... .... keep trying until there are very faint signs of the brass touching the chamber ... load a couple pieces and try firing them ...
 
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Jimkirk. I will give it a try this weekend. I really hope you are right as it will be much cheaper than having the head space adjusted. This is my first 35 whelen so I am wondering if the slight shoulder on this round is more picky than say a 30/06 ?
 
Zoer said:
Jimkirk. I will give it a try this weekend. I really hope you are right as it will be much cheaper than having the head space adjusted. This is my first 35 whelen so I am wondering if the slight shoulder on this round is more picky than say a 30/06 ?
Click to expand...
It is very unlikely you need the headspace on your rifle adjusted, factory ammo shoots just fine. It is more likely you are bumping the shoulder back too far and creating a head space problem with your ammo, not your rifle. Post #6 will probably solve the problem.
 
I have a .25/06 Browning A-Bolt that the chamber is a "frog hair" deep on ... so I have experienced the very thing you are ... I can not really tighten down so the die and shellholder on the like "normal" ... once you figure out the "correct" length for your sized brass ...you should be good to go ... that is unless you do have a firing pin/spring issue ...

Hope you get the problem fixed....
 
I agree above pushing the shoulder back too far. The bullet seating depth shouldn't affect ignition to that extent. With a newly fired cases I normally adjust my FL dies to where they just size down the neck and barely bump the shoulder. Do it in small increments until you see these results. What powder are you using and how many grains with what weight bullet. You also may be using a powder that needs a magnum primer for that case capacity. I have had a Whelen in the past and the very slow powders for this caliber is nearly like a comparable to a 300 win. With 4350 you can almost fill to the neck with a 225 gr bullet.
 
I had all sorts of ignition problems and hangfires with my 35 Whelen. I fixed it by sizing the case so it was an exact fit to the chamber. My rifle is a M1903 so I could take the firing pin mechanism out and close the bolt without any mainspring or extractor spring tension. This allowed me to test how much I was pushing back the shoulder during resizing. When the bolt is closed there is absolutely no forward or back movement on a sized cartridge. I also used the most sensitive primers I have, which are Federal. The mainspring on the rifle was replaced with a new Wolff.

While I consider the 35 Whelen a great cartridge the shoulder is shallow and the evidence I have seen is that it cushions the firing pin blow. So everything I did was to maximize the energy output on the primer.
 
I had the same problem with my first two .35 Whelen builds. My 3rd and final build is the .35 Whelen Ackley Improved. Problem solved! The sharper shoulder and reduced body taper makes for solid headspacing and no more shoulder set-back from firing pin hits. These I neck size using the Lee collet die with excellent results.
 
thanks to all

Thank you to everyone with advice on this problem,,, I will work on moving the shoulder until I get it figured out .. I hope reloading for the 35 whelen doesn't require more brain power than I pocess
 
farmerboy 78,,,, I am using varget, imr 4064, win 748 // 250 hornady sp, 250 nosler and barnes 225 ,,, sub moa with most combinations the rifle seems to shoot most everything fairly well
 
I had best luck with IMR 3031 in the 35 Whelen. Slower burning powders worked but I think this cartridge is better off with powders in the 4895 burn rate or faster. I do not recommend ball powders. I had the worst hangfires with AA2520, which is a ball powder. Ball powders are harder to ignite and given the shoulder issues with this cartridge, you want easy to ignite.
 
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