350 Legend, 9x19 bullets????

Palladan44

Palladan44

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In doing some research in potentially expanding out to other calibers, I'm taking a close look at 350 Legend. I'm liking how much component and firearm overlap this chambering has with what I already have on hand. My last question and one which I can't get a ton of clarity on is whether I can use 9x19 .355 projectiles (I know they are blunt nosed and have terrible BC for the velocity and potential range the 350 can get out to, but I wouldn't be using it for long range work anyways. But, can you load the 9x19 projectiles to a very high velocity without risk of tumbling/ keyholing?
I'm talking WW-296 here and potentially 2400 fps or more w/ 125 or 147gr bullets.
Thanks!
 
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The bullet diameter of 350 Legend has bee a point of contention since it was first released. Some argue .355 (like 9mm) some argue .357 like (38 Special and 357 magnum). Per the SAAMI spec technically either bullet diameter is correct as the SAAMI spec for the cartridge list a .357 +.000/-.003. A .358 diameter jacketed bullet (common to 35 caliber rifles) is not. Either way a 9MM bullet will work and be safe. Depending on the specification of your particular barrel they may not be as accurate as you would like. It is not a bad idea to slug or cast your barrel and measure the lands and groove diameters of your barrel. This may help point you to a bullet diameter that will work best with you rifle.
 
small town life said:
350 legend is .358, not .355.
Click to expand...
It is both, kinda. It has the same bore size as 9mm, .38 Special and .357. The SAAMI specs for the bores of 9mm and .38 are the same, even though the projectile sizes are different. As mcb said above, the bullet spec on 350L is .357 +0/-.003 projectile. The .38/357 bullets are specced at .358, but most manufacturers use .357 for their bullet sizes. So most .38 bullets are OK for 350L.

.38
Bore Dia- .346
Groove Dia- .355

9mm
Bore Dia- .346
Groove Dia- .355

350 Legend
Bore Dia- .346
Groove Dia- .355

I have seen load data for both .355 and .357 projectiles, but almost all loads are made for .355 bullets. Using .357 bullets of the same weight would cause quite a bit more pressure. You can use .355 bullets with loads that are for .355 or .357 bullets. I would not use .357 bullets for loads designed for .355 bullets.

For instance, Hodgdon lists loads for several bullets, all of which are .355 except for the Hornady Sub-X 250, which is .357 and lists ONLY subsonic loads.
 
Oh, and to answer the OP, I have played with RMR's 147 bullets. They verified via email that 350 speeds are OK.

I have had feeding issues with all of them, but the 350 has not been the most reliably feeding AR I own. They are better in the bolt gun, but I still have not gotten sub-MOA (or sub-2MOA) with any of them.
 
small town life said:
350 legend is .358, not .355.
Click to expand...

The 350 Legend bullets I see for reloading are .355.

www.midwayusa.com

Hornady InterLock Bullets 350 Legend (355 Diameter) 170 Grain Spire

The Hornady InterLock is designed to be a devastating hunting bullet and nothing less. The InterLock Ring - a Hornady exclusive - ensures that the core...
www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com

www.midwayusa.com

Winchester Bullets 350 Legend (355 Diameter) 145 Grain Full Metal

Winchester reloading components are the same that are used in Winchester ammunition. Winchester puts their components through very tedious and strict...
www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com
 
Palladan44 said:
In doing some research in potentially expanding out to other calibers, I'm taking a close look at 350 Legend. I'm liking how much component and firearm overlap this chambering has with what I already have on hand. My last question and one which I can't get a ton of clarity on is whether I can use 9x19 .355 projectiles (I know they are blunt nosed and have terrible BC for the velocity and potential range the 350 can get out to, but I wouldn't be using it for long range work anyways. But, can you load the 9x19 projectiles to a very high velocity without risk of tumbling/ keyholing?
I'm talking WW-296 here and potentially 2400 fps or more w/ 125 or 147gr bullets.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Only one way to find out. Load some and try it.
 
maxxhavoc said:
It is both, kinda. It has the same bore size as 9mm, .38 Special and .357. The SAAMI specs for the bores of 9mm and .38 are the same, even though the projectile sizes are different. As mcb said above, the bullet spec on 350L is .357 +0/-.003 projectile. The .38/357 bullets are specced at .358, but most manufacturers use .357 for their bullet sizes. So most .38 bullets are OK for 350L.

I have seen load data for both .355 and .357 projectiles, but almost all loads are made for .355 bullets. Using .357 bullets of the same weight would cause quite a bit more pressure. You can use .355 bullets with loads that are for .355 or .357 bullets. I would not use .357 bullets for loads designed for .355 bullets.
Click to expand...

If 350 Legend barrels are cut the way 9mm/38/357 barrels are cut, they will generally be larger than .355. SAAMI specs show the pistol barrel specs as .355 + .004. The 350 Legend specs are .355 + .002, so anything between .355 and .357 is within spec.

I don't know of any modern information on pressure data when using slightly oversize bullets. Can you point me to a source? Thanks.
 
If you are running an AR, I wish you luck with getting the pistol bullets to feed. I tried the pistol bullets first, didn't feed well at all, then ground and polished the feed ramps, which helped some, but not enough to suit me. Then I went with the 170 grain Hornady interlock bullets and they feed perfectly. YMMV
 
NR53 said:
If you are running an AR, I wish you luck with getting the pistol bullets to feed. I tried the pistol bullets first, didn't feed well at all, then ground and polished the feed ramps, which helped some, but not enough to suit me. Then I went with the 170 grain Hornady interlock bullets and they feed perfectly. YMMV
Click to expand...
Yes, the "would be" firearm would be an AR. Good to know about the feed issues.
It doesn't surprise me.
The price of the "real deal" bullets are a bit of a turn-off, are there any FMJ options for less $$ ?
This makes me think perhaps 300 HAMR.
Cheaper more widely available bullets.
 
fxvr5 said:
If 350 Legend barrels are cut the way 9mm/38/357 barrels are cut, they will generally be larger than .355. SAAMI specs show the pistol barrel specs as .355 + .004. The 350 Legend specs are .355 + .002, so anything between .355 and .357 is within spec.
Click to expand...
True, and a good point. The rifle does have tighter tolerances.

fxvr5 said:
I don't know of any modern information on pressure data when using slightly oversize bullets. Can you point me to a source? Thanks.
Click to expand...
No, I do not. I do know it will cause higher pressures, but I have not seen anyone who has pressure tested with incorrect sized projectiles. I could provide anecdotal evidence that it was OK to do it (such as older Mini 30's and Finn M39s) , but I would never recommend that a reloader do something that could possibly create a dangerous situation. Especially when, like you said, the bullets designed for the gun are .355 and plentiful.

If someone wants to load .357 prjectiles in a 350L using .355 load data, I recommend getting a .355 sizer and doing it the right way. Just squish them down a bit.

Good discussion, seriously.
 
Palladan44 said:
Yes, the "would be" firearm would be an AR. Good to know about the feed issues.
It doesn't surprise me.
The price of the "real deal" bullets are a bit of a turn-off, are there any FMJ options for less $$ ?
This makes me think perhaps 300 HAMR.
Cheaper more widely available bullets.
Click to expand...
I haven't given up on 9mm bullets. As I said above, I have gotten one of these: .355 Sizing Die but haven't had time to try it. The longer .357 projectiles may make up the difference.

I am also trying to create an insert that I'm going to glue to the front of an AR mag that will have a feed ramp to assist in presenting the shorter rounds to the AR feed ramp. The wood-and dremel mockup is looking promising, Next step is to 3d Print one for repeatability. It both keeps the bullets from moving forward and lets them clear the front of the mag.

PXL_20240121_013947634.jpg

But honestly, 350 legend feeds worse than any other round I have messed with, except my .45acp Mauser.
 
maxxhavoc said:
No, I do not. I do know it will cause higher pressures, but I have not seen anyone who has pressure tested with incorrect sized projectiles.
Click to expand...

I found this in an old thread here on THR:

longdayjake, who owns/runs RMR bullets, has posted on this forum on the issue of shooting oversize bullets. He writes, "There isn't an issue with shooting a .358 jacketed bullet through a handgun. It won't create any noticeable pressure difference. A friend of mine that has pressure testing equipment tested some .357 9mm bullets out of a 9mm barrel and could not get pressures to show any difference in 9mm between the .357 and the .355 bullets." This was through a .355" barrel. see post #8 and following posts at this link:

Swage a 358 JACKETED rifle bullet down for 357 mag use

What kind of equipment cost is involved in swaging down a 358 bullet to 357??? Bullet being too tough is OK. To keep discussion on topics let just say this is for 357 maximum and heavy bullet choices are low. Is it an "easy" operation with a large arbor press or?
www.thehighroad.org

It would be nice to see the actual data, though.

Another point is that many 38/357 revolver barrels are cut .355", yet we shoot .357 jacketed bullets through them. And some Colt revolvers have a reputation for undersize bores, less than .355". No reports of problems with pressures there, but they have a barrel/cylinder gap, and run at lower pressure than the 350 Legend.

I would argue that if the bullets fit the SAAMI specs, we shouldn't expect a problem. That's what the specs are for - to make everything safe.
 
Remember SAAMI specs are significantly more generous than most of the industry uses to make bullets or barrels. They are sort of a minimum quality.

ie If a reloader opened a new box of 9mm jacketed bullets and mic'ed them and they varied between .3525 and .3555 min to max diameter measured over a small sample, most reloaders would be pissed. BUT they would still be technically in SAAMI spec

There is a reason they sell both .355 and .357 diameter jacketed bullets. No one argues 9mm does not use .355 diameter bullets and no one argues 357 Magnum does not use .357 diameter bullets.

BUT due to Winchester's poor introduction to the cartridge and failure to clarify it forcefully enough later, the internet now loves to argue if 350 Legend uses .355 or .357 diameter bullets... Such is the internet and modern gun companies.
 
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I reload for the 350 Legend and it definitely uses .355 bullets NOT .357 NOT .358. The confusion is in the literature that came along when it was being released. Winchester at the beginning even put .357 diameter on their ammo boxes. It was to get by some states regs that said .357 diameter bullet minimum required. The winchester bullets that were available to reloaders measured .355, a pulled bullet from the ammo box measured .355. Hornady bullets measure .355

I have not used pistol bullets myself, but a FB page dedicated to the 350 Legend there are several people there who have used 9mm pistol bullets and they say the work and are accurate. The do use the 147gr type mostly the 147gr XTP and the 147gr HST. Reports on targets and coyote and smaller size game they have had good results.
 
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