stans
Member
With any bear, penetration is the key, so if a 357 is your only option then go with the 180 grain solid, either jacketed soft point or lead semi-wadcutter.
.357 for Grizzly Bear?
- Thread starter Cool Hand Luke 22:36
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seeker_two
Member
Remember: there's a BIG difference b/t bear hunting (killing a bear humanely) and bear defense (getting the bear to stop attacking you, go away, and die elsewhere).
I've always though the best bear defense pistol would be a Glock 20 10mm w/ 180gr FMJ +P's in the hi-cap magazine. Lots of close-range, deep-penetrating firepower that would drive a bear away to die somewhere else. But, for bear hunting , the line starts at .30-06 and ends at the 105mm Howtizer.
A .357Mag/180gr combo could work, but I'd opt for something larger than the SP101. Follow-up shots are a must, and you'll have a lot of trouble w/ follow-ups shooting 180's from that snubby. I'd lean more toward a 686 Plus or Tracker 7-shot as a minimum & a 627 8-shot as preferable. (or just get the Glock).
Have fun. Hope you don't see any bears...
I've always though the best bear defense pistol would be a Glock 20 10mm w/ 180gr FMJ +P's in the hi-cap magazine. Lots of close-range, deep-penetrating firepower that would drive a bear away to die somewhere else. But, for bear hunting , the line starts at .30-06 and ends at the 105mm Howtizer.
A .357Mag/180gr combo could work, but I'd opt for something larger than the SP101. Follow-up shots are a must, and you'll have a lot of trouble w/ follow-ups shooting 180's from that snubby. I'd lean more toward a 686 Plus or Tracker 7-shot as a minimum & a 627 8-shot as preferable. (or just get the Glock).
Have fun. Hope you don't see any bears...
surfinUSA
Member
These big bears have been taken, and in some cases recently with 9mm (shooter fishing with a companion that was armed with and dropped a 12ga shotgun), 40 S&W, 45 acp (bear came in the house IIRC the shooter was a Judge) and 44 special (Elmer Kieth documents at least one of these events). Are they ideal? No and neither is any handgun round.
But a 357 will get the job done if you are lucky (of course if you were lucky you wouldn't be in a position to see if a 357 will save you from a big bear).
Either way go with solid bullets, the heavier the better. If the 357 is all you have thats what you use. You could a lot better but you could also do alot worse.
But a 357 will get the job done if you are lucky (of course if you were lucky you wouldn't be in a position to see if a 357 will save you from a big bear).
Either way go with solid bullets, the heavier the better. If the 357 is all you have thats what you use. You could a lot better but you could also do alot worse.
Not optimal, but Buffalo Bore makes a 180gr hard cast load for just that occasion. Check a recent article at gunblast.com.
Here's the story behind my abbreviated first post:
People have all kinds of horror stories about brown bear encounters. A large number of people will tell you that nothing short of a rifle in a large mag-caliber will do, and if you carry a handgun you should either-
a) file off the sight so it won't hurt so bad when the bear shoves it up your a--; or
b) shoot your companion in the knee so that the bear will eat him instead.
On the other side are people who point to documented cases of outdoorsmen dropping brown bears with 124gr fmj 9mm loads, .40 glocks, and even .22lr's.
The middle gound makes the most sense. The theory is that a bear-country pistol should be your "always everywhere" gun that you carry "always and everywhere", so that you'll have a weapon no matter when you encounter a bear. The pistol should be light enough, small enough, and comfortable enough that you won't leave it in your tent or cabin because its too much hassle. On the other hand, you will want to carry the most powerful gun that meets that criteria.
Buffalo Bore developed its 180 gr hard cast load b/c they realized alot of bear country folks were carrying .357's as their "always everywhere" gun even though it was on the light side of brown bear defense calibers. So they developed essentially a +p+ heavy load that penetrates and breaks bones better than any other .357 round. Its not perfect, but it maximizes the .357's performance.
Using the "always everywhere" selection criteria, its no wonder that many folks select .357's or 10mm Glocks. Nobody in their right mind would hunt brown bears with them. But they're reasonble choices to carry for defensive fire to make your way back to your rifle.
Here's the story behind my abbreviated first post:
People have all kinds of horror stories about brown bear encounters. A large number of people will tell you that nothing short of a rifle in a large mag-caliber will do, and if you carry a handgun you should either-
a) file off the sight so it won't hurt so bad when the bear shoves it up your a--; or
b) shoot your companion in the knee so that the bear will eat him instead.
On the other side are people who point to documented cases of outdoorsmen dropping brown bears with 124gr fmj 9mm loads, .40 glocks, and even .22lr's.
The middle gound makes the most sense. The theory is that a bear-country pistol should be your "always everywhere" gun that you carry "always and everywhere", so that you'll have a weapon no matter when you encounter a bear. The pistol should be light enough, small enough, and comfortable enough that you won't leave it in your tent or cabin because its too much hassle. On the other hand, you will want to carry the most powerful gun that meets that criteria.
Buffalo Bore developed its 180 gr hard cast load b/c they realized alot of bear country folks were carrying .357's as their "always everywhere" gun even though it was on the light side of brown bear defense calibers. So they developed essentially a +p+ heavy load that penetrates and breaks bones better than any other .357 round. Its not perfect, but it maximizes the .357's performance.
Using the "always everywhere" selection criteria, its no wonder that many folks select .357's or 10mm Glocks. Nobody in their right mind would hunt brown bears with them. But they're reasonble choices to carry for defensive fire to make your way back to your rifle.
mtnbkr
Member
cookekdjr has it. It's not enough to "own" a big bore handgun, you have to carry it. Frankly, I wouldn't carry a 6" 44mag or larger regularly enough. It's too much weight and bulk on top of what I'm already going to have with me. My 4" GP100 is always with me in the forest. The BB load looks good, but I don't use it because I already have a 180@1250+ handload (from MY gun, not a test barrel).
Chris
Chris
Preacherman
Member
I made my choice of a "hiking handgun" based on growing up in Africa, where lots of things have teeth and regard humans as crunchy and tasty (and easy!). I'd compare a brown bear to a Cape buffalo as something to avoid at all costs, if possible.
As a "minimum standard", I settled on .44 Magnum. I can control this caliber in (relatively) rapid fire, and put five or six shots where they need to go at close to medium range. With Garrett Hammerheads or the BB equivalent, I feel relatively well-equipped. The "platform" of choice is the Ruger Redhawk with 5½" barrel. It's more than strong enough for the hottest loads, yet, with the shorter barrel, is easily carried in a cross-draw or chest holster. (I wouldn't pack behind the hip in a thick brush situation - might have obstructions in getting your hand to the gun, and the gun to a shooting position, if bushes or branches are in the way).
Sure, the Redhawk is heavy, but not much heavier than a steel .357 Magnum K-frame or a 1911. As Clint Smith has famously said, a handgun is meant to be comforting, not comfortable! If I am not willing to carry the weight of a serious defensive handgun, adequate to deal with the challenges I may face in a given environment, then what the heck am I doing in that environment?
As a "minimum standard", I settled on .44 Magnum. I can control this caliber in (relatively) rapid fire, and put five or six shots where they need to go at close to medium range. With Garrett Hammerheads or the BB equivalent, I feel relatively well-equipped. The "platform" of choice is the Ruger Redhawk with 5½" barrel. It's more than strong enough for the hottest loads, yet, with the shorter barrel, is easily carried in a cross-draw or chest holster. (I wouldn't pack behind the hip in a thick brush situation - might have obstructions in getting your hand to the gun, and the gun to a shooting position, if bushes or branches are in the way).
Sure, the Redhawk is heavy, but not much heavier than a steel .357 Magnum K-frame or a 1911. As Clint Smith has famously said, a handgun is meant to be comforting, not comfortable! If I am not willing to carry the weight of a serious defensive handgun, adequate to deal with the challenges I may face in a given environment, then what the heck am I doing in that environment?
JNewell
Member
The only thing we can say in favor of the .357 Mag + Griz combination is that it's probably better than nothing at all, but that's faint praise.
If you must go that way, the heavy (170-180-200 gr) hard cast bullets are all you should consider, but...
...you really need to take a couple of boxes to the range and try them in the SP101. I have been shooting these in a Security Six and a Model 66, both of which weigh more and have more grip to hold onto, and these loads are anything but a picnic. In an SP101, you'll also need to verify POA vs. POI; most of these will shoot very, very low (the SP101's fixed sights are regulated for faster, lighter bullets).
If you must go that way, the heavy (170-180-200 gr) hard cast bullets are all you should consider, but...
...you really need to take a couple of boxes to the range and try them in the SP101. I have been shooting these in a Security Six and a Model 66, both of which weigh more and have more grip to hold onto, and these loads are anything but a picnic. In an SP101, you'll also need to verify POA vs. POI; most of these will shoot very, very low (the SP101's fixed sights are regulated for faster, lighter bullets).
Cosmoline
Member
In my case I have a slug gun or rifle as the main firearm, and the handgun is a backup. Why do I need it? Because I'm deepest in bear country during salmon madness, and one of the side effects of that madness includes doing things like leaving your shotgun on the bank so you can wade out to a good spot. Both your hands are filled with fish and/or gear, so it's not really realistic to have a shotgun on. The magnum is there as a backup. I emphasized it should be inexpensive because you can expect it to get soaked.
If you have no rifle or slug gun and you're relying on your handgun as the primary defense, I'd say go with a Casull.
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
I have no luck there. I have been backpacking out west a few times and I have had black bear around at night at least once per trip.
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
Good point.
Adequate bear medicine:
http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwacker/body_bushwacker.html
Of course, avoiding bears is probably much easier than avoiding humans.
http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwacker/body_bushwacker.html
Of course, avoiding bears is probably much easier than avoiding humans.
Gunnutz13
Member
When the Bear hits the fan...
OK...here's what you will probably be lookin at...you come across a bear on the trail or one wanders into camp...either way...you, the bear, or both, are caught off guard...hopefully, there will be a little distance between you and the bear. It attacks...in a 40mph running gallop, it is on you in seconds...giving you a slim profile for a target as it covers the distance...your heart is pounding, and if you can keep your composure, bring the gun to bear ( ) and pull the trigger, and place the round that you have under the hammer in the most optimum spot...it better be the biggest, baddest round known to mankind. Do you aim at the head...hell yea...but will it bounce off ?!...Luckily...most wild bears steer clear of humans, but the ones that lurk around state park campsites are used to humans and will attack if you are between them and their next meal.
My carry choice when camping is my 4" S&W model 629 in 44magnum. ( Yea, I know...you're not supposed to carry a firearm in State Parks...even though I have a CCW permit...but I'm in the wild, and I'm the top of the food chain. )
OK...here's what you will probably be lookin at...you come across a bear on the trail or one wanders into camp...either way...you, the bear, or both, are caught off guard...hopefully, there will be a little distance between you and the bear. It attacks...in a 40mph running gallop, it is on you in seconds...giving you a slim profile for a target as it covers the distance...your heart is pounding, and if you can keep your composure, bring the gun to bear (
) and pull the trigger, and place the round that you have under the hammer in the most optimum spot...it better be the biggest, baddest round known to mankind. Do you aim at the head...hell yea...but will it bounce off ?!...Luckily...most wild bears steer clear of humans, but the ones that lurk around state park campsites are used to humans and will attack if you are between them and their next meal.My carry choice when camping is my 4" S&W model 629 in 44magnum. ( Yea, I know...you're not supposed to carry a firearm in State Parks...even though I have a CCW permit...but I'm in the wild, and I'm the top of the food chain. )
JNewell
Member
Good point, to a point...but remember that when you're talking about defending yourself against something as large and aggressive as a grizzly, there really isn't any handgun that's going to provide a guaranteed happy ending, regardless of its size, weight, or chambering.
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