For guns like the Marlin lever and Rossi M92 in .357, if I am following a manual for powder type and charge, bullet wt and primer, is it ok to just take the max load from the "pistol section" and use that? I have factory new brass, not old used brass.
.357 Mag In Lever Action?
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glockgod
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NEVER start with max!! Work your way up to it!
Yes. Both the rifles and pistols are designed to the same pressure standards.
Where the rifle data varies from the pistol data, there may be some slower burning powders that can take advantage of the rifle’s longer barrel without exceeding pressure specs. Using those powders in a hand gun would only result in a big fireball and more noise.
Do not venture beyond the reputable published data.
I reloaded 357 Magnum for handguns before I got a rifle. To make life simple, I shoot the same reload in either.
Where the rifle data varies from the pistol data, there may be some slower burning powders that can take advantage of the rifle’s longer barrel without exceeding pressure specs. Using those powders in a hand gun would only result in a big fireball and more noise.
Do not venture beyond the reputable published data.
I reloaded 357 Magnum for handguns before I got a rifle. To make life simple, I shoot the same reload in either.
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ArchAngelCD
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Safe to use. Like said above both handgun and rifle are designed for the same pressures. Now, where are the photos of your rif!e?
Listen to this guy.
The one thing really cool about 357 is that you will see a considerable increase in muzzle velocity running what would be considered a "pistol" loading just due to the increase in barrel length. Especially when you get into the magnum pistol powders as it gives them alot more time to burn, thus offering increased velocity.
Pat Riot
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Dunross
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FWIW, I rarely went with the max load after the first year or so with either my N-frame revolver or my Marlin 1894. I liked the performance I got from both by backing off a bit. Different guns, different powders, different bullets affect all of that though.
As cfullgraf notes it's the slower burning powders that really make the longer barrel lengths stand out for velocity gains. H110 out of a sixteen inch barrel can give a large fps difference even over a six inch revolver. I tend to load my carbine loads differently than my revolver loads for that reason. I can shoot the carbine loads out of a revolver if I want, but it's just going to create a lot more flash/bang than using a powder more suited for shorter barrels would. Impressive fireball in low-light conditions though.
My carbine loads are visibly marked so I can know just from looking at them what I've got.
I have 2 pistol cartridge carbines; a lever gun in 44 Magnum, and a semi-auto in 45 ACP. While I wouldn't mind making "rifle only" or "handgun only" handloads I don't. My handgun loads work just fine in my rifles and the only difference is sizing my cast bullets to fit my 44 lever gun (my handguns take .432" and my Puma takes .433"+).
GeoDudeFlorida
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No, it is not. NEVER start with Max. and NEVER assume a pistol-cartridge load will behave the same in a carbine as it does in a revolver.
Most reloading manuals differentiate between .357 revolver and rifle/carbine loads, even though many use the same powders. From the Lyman's 48th...
Carl N. Brown
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The Marlin 1894 and Rossi 92 rifles are available chambered for rounds hotter than .357 magnum.
I own both a Rossi 92 Legacy Puma carbine (20" barrel) and a Ruger Security Six in .357 Magnum. I would never load for the carbine over the recommended maximum for .357 Magnum revolver simply because I would not want hot loads intended for "rifle only" to end up being fired in my revolver or anyone else's revolver for that matter.
As others have pointed out, standard .357 Magnum revolver rounds get a real boost in velocity and energy (and recoil) when fired from a carbine length barrel, far more than pistol rounds like 9mm Luger and .45 ACP fired in carbine length barrels.
I own both a Rossi 92 Legacy Puma carbine (20" barrel) and a Ruger Security Six in .357 Magnum. I would never load for the carbine over the recommended maximum for .357 Magnum revolver simply because I would not want hot loads intended for "rifle only" to end up being fired in my revolver or anyone else's revolver for that matter.
As others have pointed out, standard .357 Magnum revolver rounds get a real boost in velocity and energy (and recoil) when fired from a carbine length barrel, far more than pistol rounds like 9mm Luger and .45 ACP fired in carbine length barrels.
Carl N. Brown
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Never load .357 Magnum loads in .38 Special cases because you don't know who will inherit your unfired rounds and what .38 Special they might shoot them in.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Here are two good examples of why jumping straight to a pistol max. load for a revolver in a carbine is a really bad idea:
It is NOT just a matter of chamber pressure. The strength of the action is not the only factor. When discussing max. loads you have to consider every aspect of the situation. First, WHY are you jumping straight to a max. load instead of following safe and proven guidelines? Either one of these loads using Bullseye or 700X in an 18" or longer barrel is going lead like crazy and in the Marlin's microgroove barrel they are not going to be accurate. Bullseye is a very fast powder intended for target-velocity loads in medium-length service-pistol barrels, not rifles or carbines, and 700X is a very fast shotgun powder intended for heavy loads in a long, smooth bore - but it works pretty well for target pistol loads, too. Being safe is a lot more important than being cool or impatient.
AJC1
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Do you say never load ruger loads in 45c because someone may hurt themselves. This exact same thing could be said about 45/70. Well I have both a lever and a trapdoor, but I should never load to lever levels because I own a trapdoor....
GeoDudeFlorida
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Let's be realistic, here. Loading to .357Magnum pressures in a .38Special case is never a good idea. More to the point, why would you?
AJC1
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Because I have a ton of that brass and it's just as capable
And I dont own a 38...
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tightgroup tiger
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Brass doesn't hold the pressure, the cylinder or barrel does. I don't load per say, 357 magnum recipes in 38 special brass without downloading to account for the shorter brass and lack of air space. I load down proportionally for this when using Keith bullets in my N-frame P&R Smith and Wesson's.
One other thing, Revolvers have a barrel to cylinder gap that vents off some pressure, but lever action rifles, due to the increase in velocity, have a much slower rifling than a revolver, due to having to stabilize the bullet at a much higher speed, that also takes pressure away from the load. Difference from 18.5/1 rifling in a Smith revolver to up to 24-30/1 rifling in a rifle, depending on who made it.
So pressure should be an even wash between the two different designs of guns.
I agree with Cfullgraph that Maximum load in a pistol is still maximum load in a rifle, which is what I believe he was trying to convey with his post, but I believe that starting at maximum load in any "new to me" gun is a fool's errand and asking for a lot of trouble.
It's not something I will do.
One other thing, Revolvers have a barrel to cylinder gap that vents off some pressure, but lever action rifles, due to the increase in velocity, have a much slower rifling than a revolver, due to having to stabilize the bullet at a much higher speed, that also takes pressure away from the load. Difference from 18.5/1 rifling in a Smith revolver to up to 24-30/1 rifling in a rifle, depending on who made it.
So pressure should be an even wash between the two different designs of guns.
I agree with Cfullgraph that Maximum load in a pistol is still maximum load in a rifle, which is what I believe he was trying to convey with his post, but I believe that starting at maximum load in any "new to me" gun is a fool's errand and asking for a lot of trouble.
It's not something I will do.
wcwhitey
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Now how I would approach this is by loading .38 +p charges of slow burning powders in that .38 brass. Now completely safe in both .357 carbine or revolver and you will be at or approaching .357 velocities in the carbine. My two cents.
AJC1
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The key is that you use the .357 oal, the second crimp grove. It ends up at 357 oal and everything works fine. The marlin rifles say 38/357 but the shorter oals on the 38s just screw things up. One would think that a 357 oal would not fit a 38 but I never make such assumptions. Fortunecookie45lc showed how a ruger 454 cassule chambered a 460 and that would be equally bad.
wcwhitey
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I get where you’re going. Old school 358156 GC loads, second grove. I still myself would not go there. My Rossi loved shooting .38 never an issue. Sorry I sold it.
kerreckt
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Just as others have stated. I load for my .357 handguns and use the same for my carbine. Makes it simple and safe.
buck460XVR
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Especially with a lever in .357. The way a .357 carbine/rifle locks up at the rear of the bolt, it gives the action some flex and will cause the case to stretch like with headspace issues in other guns. Using max loads in .357 levers will lead to case head separation if one does not keep those loads to virgin or once fired brass. While this is not an issue in revolvers, it is in lever actions.
As for using handgun load recipes in rifles/carbines. For the most part, when it comes to modern firearms, you are reloading the case to the caliber and not the platform. For example....have you ever seen factory .357 ammo that is labeled "for rifle" or "for revolver" only? No, even the Leverevolution ammo produced by Hornady, created for the lever carbine market, can be safely shot in revolvers. It's not pressure or velocity, but the bullet that is primarily made for the carbines, and even then, it really has no advantages over standard .357, 140 gr ammo.
having looked at .357, which I don't reload for, but have looked it over in more than a few reloading books, there are some charges, bullet, combinations that do - on paper anyways, get .357 to perform like a modest 30-30 in terms of nrg it produces. that said, the same load can be fired out of a revolver, but performs better in a rifle. some year I'll get a rifle like you have and get to play with this too, but - from my limited experience and research, playing with max loads is just a bad idea, whatever you are shooting at does not care about and extra 100 fps, and for the most part - will not affect a target differently in a significant way - say a deer or game. the bullet type may make a big difference though. if you want it to hit like a 30-30 or a 30-06, get one of those.
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