pbearperry
Member
Korth
The Korth was made for people who need status symbols.It does nothing a S&W ,Colt,or Ruger can't do.
The Korth was made for people who need status symbols.It does nothing a S&W ,Colt,or Ruger can't do.
.357 magnum: Korth vs. Smith
- Thread starter Strykervet
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Guillermo
member
someone has their THR signature as "a Korth is a Korth of Course, of Course"
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
While I agree with the general principle that the Korth is overpriced and probably at least half the cost is purely to puff up the egoes of the rich and shameless. However, there are some of us who appreciate finer fit and finish than is typically exhibited in your average S&W, Colt or Ruger. We just typically buy custom guns, FA's and USFA's. It has nothing to do with "status".
bragmardo
Member
Try Egun.de. I bought dozens of Korth revolvers there at prices ranging from 1,000 to 2,500 Euros. To me, this price is justified by their unsurpassed quality of manufacture. All steel parts of Korth revolvers are ground, polished, and differentially hardened. By contrast, Smith and Wesson no longer even bothers to machine the firing systems of its revolvers, resorting to the tawdry expedient of injection molding. Willi Korth claimed that his revolvers maintain their accuracy after 50,000 full power .357 Magnum rounds. For those who doubt his claim, here is a testimonial pitting a Korth revolver against a vintage forged S&W M28:
Please note that the frame size of the Korth falls between those of the K and L frames in the S&W lineup. And yet it withstands the pressures of heavy .357 Magnum loads much better than the S&W N frame. This factor alone warrants its premium price.
Guillermo
member
a Remington 870 will do everything that a Holland and Holland double barrel does...and more. Some buy the H&H for status but some merely appreciate them to the point of being willing to pay for them.
Smiths do nothing that a Rossi won't...but they sure do sell a buttload of them...many to people posting here about how it is silly to pay a premium because you like something better.
I bought a Colt Python when I was young. I had to have that "cool" looking gun. I quickly retired it. I shot competitions with S&W revolvers, both ISSF and action. I used a S&W 14-2 in centerfire and a Walther GSP and later a Hämmerli 208 for rimfire.
I own many S&W revolvers, all nice older ones without the lock. And I bought them cheap when most people went for the "wondernines".
I own one Korth and those that say that it is a mere status symbol, or those that tried it and could not appreciate the trigger characteristics, are the guys that I laugh at when I see them at the range.
When I can find another 24 series Korth, I will go for it if I can find one at a price that I can afford. And the guns that I own are no safe queens, I am not a collector but a hard core shooter.
I own many S&W revolvers, all nice older ones without the lock. And I bought them cheap when most people went for the "wondernines".
I own one Korth and those that say that it is a mere status symbol, or those that tried it and could not appreciate the trigger characteristics, are the guys that I laugh at when I see them at the range.
When I can find another 24 series Korth, I will go for it if I can find one at a price that I can afford. And the guns that I own are no safe queens, I am not a collector but a hard core shooter.
bragmardo
Member
JohnBT
Member
"a Remington 870 will do everything that a Holland and Holland double barrel does...and more."
LOL
Yeah, okay, whatever. Keep right on believing that if you like.
JT
LOL
Yeah, okay, whatever. Keep right on believing that if you like.
JT
JohnBT
Member
"I was offered a Korth for $1,000.00 one time, i thought it was over priced for that money!"
Probably one of the early ones that I said sell for $500 or $800 or so. It was overpriced at $1000.
Probably one of the early ones that I said sell for $500 or $800 or so. It was overpriced at $1000.
Guillermo
member
facts...I deal in facts
JohnBT
Member
Okay, it was a Model 20. Here's a guy who bought one for $225...
...with Taurus grips on it.
www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=368935
I also read about a run of 1,000 police revolvers. I don't know if this was one of them or not.
The steel on the expensive Korths is so hard (rockwell 60 iirc) that it barely gets dirty and it takes a great blue.
Jonh
...with Taurus grips on it.
www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=368935
I also read about a run of 1,000 police revolvers. I don't know if this was one of them or not.
The steel on the expensive Korths is so hard (rockwell 60 iirc) that it barely gets dirty and it takes a great blue.
Jonh
JohnBT
Member
"facts...I deal in facts "
Okay, just for fun, an easy one. Will an 870 let you shoot two fast shots, one with an IC choke and one with a MOD choke? Nope. The H&H double will.
Fact.
Okay, another one. When you order the 870, will they fit it to your dimensions, style of shooting and intended usage for length of pull, cast, drop and so forth so it fits you and points where you look? Nope. H&H will. I don't believe Remington even employs a fitter.
Fact.
Okay, just for fun, an easy one. Will an 870 let you shoot two fast shots, one with an IC choke and one with a MOD choke? Nope. The H&H double will.
Fact.
Okay, another one. When you order the 870, will they fit it to your dimensions, style of shooting and intended usage for length of pull, cast, drop and so forth so it fits you and points where you look? Nope. H&H will. I don't believe Remington even employs a fitter.
Fact.
Guillermo
member
true...I stand corrected
I guess I should have used a $400 Russian side by side as the example instead
the main point, that premium guns (or in this case ultra-premium) do not do anything that cheaper guns don't
JohnBT
Member
A $400 Russian SxS?
Makes a good fence post or boat paddle. It's not a well balanced, fine handling shotgun at all.
You appear to think that if a gun will throw pellets downrange it's perfect and cannot be improved upon.
Makes a good fence post or boat paddle. It's not a well balanced, fine handling shotgun at all.
You appear to think that if a gun will throw pellets downrange it's perfect and cannot be improved upon.
bragmardo
Member
You have made your point. Now apply it at home. Your earlier claim that "S&W is far better" should be qualified by noting that S&W lacks comprehensive single and double action trigger weight and stacking adjustments built into every .357 Magnum Korth revolver, and that the latter will unfailingly digest ten times the number of full bore Magnum rounds that will irreparably damage the former. Suum cuique.
Cosmoline
Member
Ruger could make the same claim, but they're not charging the same price. As far as the durability of the Korth, that's nullified by the fact that you can just buy multiple vintage Smiths. Or simply have them tuned up. And you'll still spend a lot less. Heck you could buy multiple PYTHONS for the price of the Korths stateside.
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JohnBT
Member
"Now apply it at home. Your earlier claim that "S&W is far better""
Ah, I see what you did, you left out some of what I posted. I said,
"S&W is far better. Keep reading."
If you had kept reading, I then got to the part about the earlier Korth guns that were of a lower quality and price point. See now? Then I went and found the post about the guy who got a Korth .38 for $225.
Korth reportedly also made at least one run of a thousand less expensive police revolvers.
I have some S&W's, but I really like my 2 Pythons.
John
Ah, I see what you did, you left out some of what I posted. I said,
"S&W is far better. Keep reading."
If you had kept reading, I then got to the part about the earlier Korth guns that were of a lower quality and price point. See now? Then I went and found the post about the guy who got a Korth .38 for $225.
Korth reportedly also made at least one run of a thousand less expensive police revolvers.
I have some S&W's, but I really like my 2 Pythons.
John
bragmardo
Member
If you mean the Ruger Redhawk .357, I suppose that it can be as durable as a Korth, given that it weighs half again as much. Consider that a 4" Korth Combat revolver weighs 1016g, whereas a 6" Sport model weighs 1175g, as against the much less rugged 4" and 6" S&W 686 weighing in at 1191g and 1298g, respectively. Can Ruger support the same claim in the frame size splitting the difference between the S&W K and L frames?
You cannot "tune up" a stretched frame.
bragmardo
Member
I am very fond of my S&W Registered Magnums and Colt Pythons. But for social work or sport shooting I will pick up an MR73 or a Korth every time. They are that much better.I have some S&W's, but I really like my 2 Pythons.
Cosmoline
Member
But you can just not worry about the thousands of an inch at issue. Or you can sell it off and pull out one of the other revolvers you bought for the price of a Korth.
The Sixes are slightly bigger than the K's. And tougher. But I'm not sure what's so valuable about being right between two S&W frame sizes.
I'm not knocking Korth. I've never shot one and given their rarity here and the incredible prices it's unlikely I ever will. Even if I had that kind of money, I'd have to work down a long list before I got to Korth. Just thinking about all the other things I could get for a few grand generates a very long list. From vintage Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles to a brace of high grade Pythons.
It's all about the price in the end. Even the fellow in your posted torture test agrees:
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bragmardo
Member
Only until you start printing shotgun patterns owing to forcing cone erosion, while your shooting companions get lead showers from the barrel to cylinder gap grossly enlarged by frame stretch. Ask me how I know all that.
As I said above, aftermarket prices in Germany are quite reasonable. Besides, there are many good reasons to pay for quality once.
It's not hard to be tougher when you are slightly bigger. But size matters a lot when you carry the gun concealed. Incidentally, the later production runs of Korth revolvers include the very competitively priced, matte finished "Profi" model.
I pay between 350 and 900 Euros for high grade Pythons in Germany. Vintage Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles are expensive everywhere.
In the long run, quality matters more.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That's a matter of opinion. If by "do not do anything that cheaper guns don't" you mean that they all go bang, then I would agree. Beyond that, and I hope all our expectations are at least a little higher, there can be a significant difference. Again, it has nothing to do with ego or status. An 870 or a Merkel 280 will both go "bang" when the trigger is pressed. The difference is that the Merkel does something the 870 does not. It is lighter. It is quicker for the first two shots. It fits me better. It handles better. It handles quicker. It points better. It has a better trigger. It has a more comfortable stock and pistol grip design. It has beautiful wood. It stirs my soul and is more enjoyable to own, shoot and hunt with.
I'm still trying to figure out why so many people feel the need to berate things they can't afford, or choose not to afford. It's snobbery of a different sort.
Guillermo
member
ok John,
I have a guild gun that a serious shotgunner would give his package to own (actually the value may have climbed since I last looked it up...but it isn't 25 grand).
You could come up with an example of your own.
Of course this is all minutia...you get the point...just refuse to acknowledge it.
Its okay...I coach high schoolers. I am used to it.
I have a guild gun that a serious shotgunner would give his package to own (actually the value may have climbed since I last looked it up...but it isn't 25 grand).
You could come up with an example of your own.
Of course this is all minutia...you get the point...just refuse to acknowledge it.
Its okay...I coach high schoolers. I am used to it.
John Wayne
Member
- Joined
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For the price of a Korth you could get a S&W Registered Magnum, which will probably be equally hard to find.
bragmardo
Member
I have two Registered Magnums in excellent mechanical shape. Most of the other specimens of prewar S&W Magnum revolvers that I have examined have had their barrel to cylinder gap stretched way out of factory spec. I never came across this kind of wear in a Korth Magnum revolver. Their production numbers are comparable.
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