357 maximum bullets?

[sharp tooth]

Looking to order some bullets from hawkbullets 200grain they say a light jacket and I use h110 so I figured have them add a cannelure if reasonable to ensure even burn especially since this would also be a deer rifle making sure things don’t come loose…. I can not locate the Hornady xtp 180s with the second cannelure curious if some one could get me a measurement where that missing cannelure should be.
This is for a contender super 14 I should have plenty of headspace to fill to seat bullet further out and add more powder of course working up slowly, any advice??

 

[Varminterror]

Is the Hawk Bullets 200grn a replica of the contour of the 180grn XTP? Why else might you be wanting to transfer the same cannelure position to a different bullet?

 

[sharp tooth]

Looking for a reference point and no it’s not I just want a slightly larger bullet

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Looking to order some bullets from hawkbullets 200grain they say a light jacket and I use h110 so I figured have them add a cannelure if reasonable to ensure even burn especially since this would also be a deer rifle making sure things don’t come loose…. I can not locate the Hornady xtp 180s with the second cannelure curious if some one could get me a measurement where that missing cannelure should be.
This is for a contender super 14 I should have plenty of headspace to fill to seat bullet further out and add more powder of course working up slowly, any advice??

Which one. Their selection of 200gr. .358”/.359” includes FP, RN, Spitzer... You really don’t need a roll crimp in a Contender barrel. You just need good neck tension. Seat it to .050” off the lands and see if you get complete burn with expected velocity. If not, adjust your seating a little. Again, we’re not talking about a self-loader or revolver where you have to worry about pull or push on the nose of the bullet. H110 needs a good seal and you will get that from good neck tension and a tight fit to barrel. Contender barrels tend to run a bit tight so a .358” jacketed bullet is already going to be a very tight squeeze.

 

[AJC1]

The difference between max oal is about .100" in 38 and 357 bullets no idea on the max.

 

[sharp tooth]

Which one. Their selection of 200gr. .358”/.359” includes FP, RN, Spitzer... You really don’t need a roll crimp in a Contender barrel. You just need good neck tension. Seat it to .050” off the lands and see if you get complete burn with expected velocity. If not, adjust your seating a little. Again, we’re not talking about a self-loader or revolver where you have to worry about pull or push on the nose of the bullet. H110 needs a good seal and you will get that from good neck tension and a tight fit to barrel. Contender barrels tend to run a bit tight so a .358” jacketed bullet is already going to be a very tight squeeze.

Do you have any suggestions on a 200+ grain bullet? I wanted the 200 ftx but I am worried about low velocity and not expanding this company told me the lead they use is softer and should expand at low speeds with the thin jacket

edit, I know this isn’t a good test but I blasted a dead pine tree at 50 yards with the 180 xtp dead accurate however the bullet basically disintegrated obviously a pine tree is much harder then a deer but I was worried I may be pushing that xtp to fast ??

 

[AJC1]

Do you have any suggestions on a 200+ grain bullet? I wanted the 200 ftx but I am worried about low velocity and not expanding this company told me the lead they use is softer and should expand at low speeds with the thin jacket

edit, I know this isn’t a good test but I blasted a dead pine tree at 50 yards with the 180 xtp dead accurate however the bullet basically disintegrated obviously a pine tree is much harder then a deer but I was worried I may be pushing that xtp to fast ??

https://www.speer.com/bullets/handgun_bullets/deepcurl_handgun_hunting/19-4215.html
I would think these would be first choice for hunting with a max

 

[sharp tooth]

https://www.speer.com/bullets/handgun_bullets/deepcurl_handgun_hunting/19-4215.html
I would think these would be first choice for hunting with a max

All sound advice around the max points to heavier bullets then a 158

 

[Bfh_auto]

All sound advice around the max points to heavier bullets then a 158

I agree. 180 or 200 gr would be a better choice for a 357 max.
I have a 180xtp. But my calipers went MIA when my mom and mother-in-law were down while I was in the hospital.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Do you have any suggestions on a 200+ grain bullet? I wanted the 200 ftx but I am worried about low velocity and not expanding this company told me the lead they use is softer and should expand at low speeds with the thin jacket

edit, I know this isn’t a good test but I blasted a dead pine tree at 50 yards with the 180 xtp dead accurate however the bullet basically disintegrated obviously a pine tree is much harder then a deer but I was worried I may be pushing that xtp to fast ??

I load the 200gr LBT WFN-GC sold under the Grizzly brand now - used to be Cast Performance, or maybe still is - over a close to max. charge of 2400 powder. I don’t worry about expansion. That big wide flat bullet moving close to 1300fps does enough damage without expanding. I want a through and through so the deer bleeds out fast. That bullet is a hammer.

 

[AJC1]

All sound advice around the max points to heavier bullets then a 158

I was referring to the design but I concede I did not properly verify that before posting.

 

[Frulk]

You interested in some cast lead 200 grainers with gas checks to play around with? For some reason I think I have about a 1000 laying around. I could send you a hundred for free just so you could experiment with them. Not looking to sell you any. I’ll have to look for them when I get home. I’ll pm you a picture.

 

[sharp tooth]

You interested in some cast lead 200 grainers with gas checks to play around with? For some reason I think I have about a 1000 laying around. I could send you a hundred for free just so you could experiment with them. Not looking to sell you any. I’ll have to look for them when I get home. I’ll pm you a picture.

That sounds good I don’t normally go after cast but I think with limited options at this point I need to consider that something viable for what I am doing

 

[Frulk]

OK...think what you're looking for are these. The pic on the box does not show the second cannelure.



And this is the 200 grainer on the left with the 180 grain XTP on the right. The 200 is allox coated. If you're interested in them PM me your address and I'll get a hundred on their way to your door. They're .358 dia and around 12 for hardness

 

[AJC1]

OK...think what you're looking for are these. The pic on the box does not show the second cannelure.

View attachment 1112644

And this is the 200 grainer on the left with the 180 grain XTP on the right. The 200 is allox coated. If you're interested in them PM me your address and I'll get a hundred on their way to your door. They're .358 dia and around 12 for hardness

View attachment 1112645

The length to crimp grove makes me think that cast bullet is for 35 rem.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

OK...think what you're looking for are these. The pic on the box does not show the second cannelure.

View attachment 1112644

And this is the 200 grainer on the left with the 180 grain XTP on the right. The 200 is allox coated. If you're interested in them PM me your address and I'll get a hundred on their way to your door. They're .358 dia and around 12 for hardness

View attachment 1112645

That cast 200’s a great deer and pig bullet, @Frulk I load one real similar in both .357max and .35Rem. Very generous offer.

 

[Frulk]

The length to crimp grove makes me think that cast bullet is for 35 rem.

Can’t argue that as I’m not familiar with the .35 Rem. However, the caster does state it’s a pistol bullet. Somehow I ordered 1K by mistake. Haven’t decided what to do with them yet.

I did the same (ordered by mistake) 1000 310 grain gas checked 44 Mag. Those I’ll slowly throw down range but it’s probably two lifetimes worth of that grain weight bullet for me.

 

[Captcurt]

Looking to order some bullets from hawkbullets 200grain they say a light jacket and I use h110 so I figured have them add a cannelure if reasonable to ensure even burn especially since this would also be a deer rifle making sure things don’t come loose…. I can not locate the Hornady xtp 180s with the second cannelure curious if someone could get me a measurement where that missing cannelure should be?

I mic'd one of my XTP's and the bottom cannelure is .325 from the bottom of the bullet and the top one is .462, give or take .002.

Not sure what is available from Speer, but I had a State Trooper tell me that the HorCor was a bullet that could stay together out of his 41 Mag. Should work in the Maximum.

 

[Frulk]

The captain beat me to it. That was going to be my next move.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Can’t argue that as I’m not familiar with the .35 Rem. However, the caster does state it’s a pistol bullet. Somehow I ordered 1K by mistake. Haven’t decided what to do with them yet.

Well, I guess the only thing you can do is find yourself a rifle in .35Rem.

 

[Frulk]

Well, I guess the only thing you can do is find yourself a rifle in .35Rem.

ENABLER ALERT!!!!!!

 

[Varminterror]

Keep in mind, long barreled specialty pistols in 357max might be slow compared to bottleneck rifle cartridges, but it’s more of a challenge to find bullets for long Max’s because the velocity is too HIGH, not because it’s too low. Most of the 180’s on the market are NOT designed to tolerate the impact velocity of a 14” Max.

For large case, fast 35 cal pistols, I draw down .358” Speer HotCors. These will still expand at relatively low impact velocities, such as if I put 200+ yards of air under them before impact, but will still survive high velocity impact if I get a close range shot. HUGE advantage for these rifle bullets is the fact they have very short bearing surfaces, so they REALLY reduce pressure, allowing a lot of powder behind them. The Hornady 180grn SSP-SP’s were awesome for that purpose as well; unfortunately, discontinued.

I have a matrix of bullets in a spreadsheet I investigated several years ago to align with this type of application. In the Hornady line, the “FP” versions of the 125 and 158 XTP are designed for higher velocity cartridges like the Max than the other non-FP versions. Lemme get that data after supper to point to a few.

My gut feeling that “thin jacket” bullets aren’t going to be the right tools for a 14” Max pistol.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

ENABLER ALERT!!!!!!

Guilty as charged.
That bullet looks a like the one I buy from Hunters Supply. I get it without the gas checks and oversized and run them through the Lee .358” sizer with a Hornady GC. I have loaded them in .38Spl for use in .357Mag revolvers and can’t really recommend it. The Hunter’s bullet needs at least 1000fps at the muzzle to run true. Not sure about the one you have there but I suspect.

By the way, as for ordering things and later wondering what I was thinking… yeah, been there, done that.

 

[Bfh_auto]

The length to crimp grove makes me think that cast bullet is for 35 rem.

That looks like my 200 RNFP Lee bullet.
They do stick out of the case pretty far.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Keep in mind, long barreled specialty pistols in 357max might be slow compared to bottleneck rifle cartridges, but it’s more of a challenge to find bullets for long Max’s because the velocity is too HIGH, not because it’s too low. Most of the 180’s on the market are NOT designed to tolerate the impact velocity of a 14” Max.

For large case, fast 35 cal pistols, I draw down .358” Speer HotCors. These will still expand at relatively low impact velocities, such as if I put 200+ yards of air under them before impact, but will still survive high velocity impact if I get a close range shot. HUGE advantage for these rifle bullets is the fact they have very short bearing surfaces, so they REALLY reduce pressure, allowing a lot of powder behind them. The Hornady 180grn SSP-SP’s were awesome for that purpose as well; unfortunately, discontinued.

I have a matrix of bullets in a spreadsheet I investigated several years ago to align with this type of application. In the Hornady line, the “FP” versions of the 125 and 158 XTP are designed for higher velocity cartridges like the Max than the other non-FP versions. Lemme get that data after supper to point to a few.

My gut feeling that “thin jacket” bullets aren’t going to be the right tools for a 14” Max pistol.

What velocity are you running them at? I use them in my Whelen and get very little expansion on deer. They do work though.