unspellable
Member
158 grain bullets?
Reed, what's your thinking about 158 gran bullets in the 357 Max?
Reed, what's your thinking about 158 gran bullets in the 357 Max?
357 Maximum Rounds are huge!
- Thread starter Peter M. Eick
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Reed1911
Member
Depends, most jacketed 158's are a little hot unless you are planning on long ranging them. Cast 158's are great for silly-wet as you can opt for a larger meplat for a better "smack". As long as you are not trying to push them to ultra high velocity there is nothing wrong with shooting them, and they do offer a bit less felt recoil than the heavier bullets. For 100yd target I love the 165g keith style bullets, flat shots and clean holes easy to see.
TallPine
Member
I don't get it ... .357mag cases are about 1/8" longer than .38 special - how does that make them "huge" ...?
Reed1911
Member
The .357 Maximum case is not a .357 Mag case. The .357 Mag case is 1.290" long while the .357 Maximum case is 1.605" long.
It is not a mainstream cartridge so don't feel bad about not knowing what it was, most folks don't.
It is not a mainstream cartridge so don't feel bad about not knowing what it was, most folks don't.
Harbinger
Member
TallPine,
.38 Special Max. case length- 1.155" (29.34 mm)
.357 Mag. Max case length- 1.290" (32.77 mm)
357 Max Max. case length- 1.605" (40.77 mm)
357 Maximum rounds are huge.
.38 Special Max. case length- 1.155" (29.34 mm)
.357 Mag. Max case length- 1.290" (32.77 mm)
357 Max Max. case length- 1.605" (40.77 mm)
357 Maximum rounds are huge.
Heavy Barrel
Member
The difference.
Seancass
Member
pictures are always helpful. i happened to know what a max. is but have never shot or even seen one actually, but pictures are always good. always.
TallPine
Member
duh ........ 
ok, so are any revolvers chambered in max or just rifles???
can you still shoot .357 mag or .38 sp in the same gun ?
(so i guess this is sorta like 45-70, 45-90, and 45-110 etc ..............)
ok, so are any revolvers chambered in max or just rifles???
can you still shoot .357 mag or .38 sp in the same gun ?
(so i guess this is sorta like 45-70, 45-90, and 45-110 etc ..............)
Reed1911
Member
No, it is not limited to the rifle only, yes you can shoot 38's and 357's in it.
unspellable
Member
Revolvers
Ruger once upon a time chambered the 357 maximum. I've heard rumors there was another SA, from Seville or somebody.
There is the Dan Wesson has the 357 SuperMag DA revolver. This revolver is actually chambered for the 357 SuperMag. In spite of which they mark it on the side as 357 Maximum, don't ak me why. The 357 Maximum is actually a slightly shortened version of the 357 SuperMag. So the DW will chamber the 357 mnaximum but the Ruger will not chamber the 357 SuperMag.
The 357 Maximum case length is 1.605, min OAL is 1.940, max OAL is 1.990.
The SAAMI maximum average pressure for the 357 Maximum is 40,000 psi.
The 357 SuperMag case length is 1.610, min OAL is 1.940, max OAL is 2.025.
The 357 SuperMag was developed by Elgin Gates and intended to deliver a large momentum at 200 meters using a heavy bullet of 180 grains or so, something it does very well.
The 357 Maximum was an attempt by Ruger & Remington to take the 357 SuperMag commercial, and is so often the case they had to fix what wasn’t broke. Ruger, in spite of Gates’ advice to the contrary, did not want to make the frame window long enough to accommodate the 357 SuperMag. Thus the 357 Maximum concept was born, using a much lighter bullet to achieve hyper velocities and the trouble started.
The Maximum works well enough if you avoid the temptation to drive 110 grain bullets at hyper velocities.
But all this does create an irresistable temptation for us DW shooters to snigger at the Ruger shooters. It's wrong, I know ...
Ruger once upon a time chambered the 357 maximum. I've heard rumors there was another SA, from Seville or somebody.
There is the Dan Wesson has the 357 SuperMag DA revolver. This revolver is actually chambered for the 357 SuperMag. In spite of which they mark it on the side as 357 Maximum, don't ak me why. The 357 Maximum is actually a slightly shortened version of the 357 SuperMag. So the DW will chamber the 357 mnaximum but the Ruger will not chamber the 357 SuperMag.
The 357 Maximum case length is 1.605, min OAL is 1.940, max OAL is 1.990.
The SAAMI maximum average pressure for the 357 Maximum is 40,000 psi.
The 357 SuperMag case length is 1.610, min OAL is 1.940, max OAL is 2.025.
The 357 SuperMag was developed by Elgin Gates and intended to deliver a large momentum at 200 meters using a heavy bullet of 180 grains or so, something it does very well.
The 357 Maximum was an attempt by Ruger & Remington to take the 357 SuperMag commercial, and is so often the case they had to fix what wasn’t broke. Ruger, in spite of Gates’ advice to the contrary, did not want to make the frame window long enough to accommodate the 357 SuperMag. Thus the 357 Maximum concept was born, using a much lighter bullet to achieve hyper velocities and the trouble started.
The Maximum works well enough if you avoid the temptation to drive 110 grain bullets at hyper velocities.
But all this does create an irresistable temptation for us DW shooters to snigger at the Ruger shooters. It's wrong, I know ...
Heavy Barrel
Member
The only three hand guns ever chambered for the 357 Max to my knowledge were Ruger,Dan Wesson and Thompson Contender.I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.I bought My Ruger when they were released in 1983,still have it,always will.It has at best.003 flame cutting,barely visable.When I stopped shooting the Remington factory ammo the flame cutting also stopped.One of the most accurate single action I have ever owned.
unspellable
Member
Revolvers
I'd definitely heard rumors about Seville or some other imnported SA chambering the 357 Max. If true, they must have been scared away about the same time Ruger was.
It's a pity the Ruger/Remington fiasco happened, it's basically a very good cartridge when properly loaded and if you have a long frame you can do other things such as DW going on to the whole SuperMag series, 357, 375, 445, & 414. Now S&W has the 460 and 500 which are essentially the SuperMag concept. (They even borrowed DW technology for the barrel.)
It's also too bad Ruger doesn't bring back the Maximum now that the answer to the erosion problem has been figured out. Although it's a problem the 357 SuperMag never had to begin with.
The 445 SuperMag (Stretched 44 Magnum) went from a wild cat to a proprietary round. At one time there was talk of going commercial with it. They should have. Lot's of horsepower without going to extremes like the 500 S&W.
One advantage the DW has for SuperMag class cartridges is the adjustable cylinder gap. You really want a 0.003 inch gap to help keep erosion down and that's a bit tight for factory tolerances on a non-adjustable revolver.
I'd definitely heard rumors about Seville or some other imnported SA chambering the 357 Max. If true, they must have been scared away about the same time Ruger was.
It's a pity the Ruger/Remington fiasco happened, it's basically a very good cartridge when properly loaded and if you have a long frame you can do other things such as DW going on to the whole SuperMag series, 357, 375, 445, & 414. Now S&W has the 460 and 500 which are essentially the SuperMag concept. (They even borrowed DW technology for the barrel.)
It's also too bad Ruger doesn't bring back the Maximum now that the answer to the erosion problem has been figured out. Although it's a problem the 357 SuperMag never had to begin with.
The 445 SuperMag (Stretched 44 Magnum) went from a wild cat to a proprietary round. At one time there was talk of going commercial with it. They should have. Lot's of horsepower without going to extremes like the 500 S&W.
One advantage the DW has for SuperMag class cartridges is the adjustable cylinder gap. You really want a 0.003 inch gap to help keep erosion down and that's a bit tight for factory tolerances on a non-adjustable revolver.
unspellable
Member
The Seville
Well I did a little research. The Seville was not an import, it was made in the USA. There was definitely a stretch frame version chambered for either the 357 SuperMag or the 357 Maximum, it's a little unclear which at this point. It was also chambered for the 375 SuperMag.
They also had back room examples of them in 414 SuperMag and what they called a 44 SuperMag which was either a 445 SuperMag or something close to it. These were never put in production.
The Seville was said to be superior to the Ruger Blackhawk in fit and finish. Apparently they were not scared away from the 357 Maximum or SuperMag as Ruger was but they had typical small company difficulties and so they didn't make a lot of them. But apparently they were making a few for some time after Ruger dropped out. They do not seem to have any special collector's interest to drive prices through the roof so if you stumble across one it might be worth grabbing.
Well I did a little research. The Seville was not an import, it was made in the USA. There was definitely a stretch frame version chambered for either the 357 SuperMag or the 357 Maximum, it's a little unclear which at this point. It was also chambered for the 375 SuperMag.
They also had back room examples of them in 414 SuperMag and what they called a 44 SuperMag which was either a 445 SuperMag or something close to it. These were never put in production.
The Seville was said to be superior to the Ruger Blackhawk in fit and finish. Apparently they were not scared away from the 357 Maximum or SuperMag as Ruger was but they had typical small company difficulties and so they didn't make a lot of them. But apparently they were making a few for some time after Ruger dropped out. They do not seem to have any special collector's interest to drive prices through the roof so if you stumble across one it might be worth grabbing.
Firepower!
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Hello
Ok. First I admitt I know nothing about the 357 Maximum. I want to know how much more powerfull and bigger is 357 Max than 357 Mag? How does it compare in power to 44 Mag, etc. And what revolvers can fire this?
Ok. First I admitt I know nothing about the 357 Maximum. I want to know how much more powerfull and bigger is 357 Max than 357 Mag? How does it compare in power to 44 Mag, etc. And what revolvers can fire this?
Ford Truck
Member
About 20 + years ago, I came across a used Savage Model 24V in .357 Max. over a 3" 20 gauge. It's not a revolver, but it's the only .357 Maximum I've ever fired. It makes a good woodsrunner gun. I reckon I'll keep it.
BlindJustice
Member
Not Huge still the same diameter as .357 Mag. just LONG....
BlindJustice
Member
THe 1894 Marlin can't handle a 200 grain bullet in .357 Mag. cases but use the .38 SPecial cases and it can.... it has a certain range for each of the
three calibers it is offered in, .38 Spcl/.357 mag. .44 Spcl/.44 Mag, and .45 Colt. The Conversions to Cowboy SPecial which has a case length of .898 involves installing a shorter carrier to operate the cut down to that lenght case. I'm getting my Marlin 1894 converted to .45 Auto RIm. It will involve the shorter carrier and milling for the extra thick rim in the bore and to the extractor I have a 625 S&W in .45 ACP / Auto RIm to go with it.
It should be a 12 shooter.
Back to .357 Mag - on leverguns.com a test of a Marlin 1894 in .357 Mag.
chrono'd about 500 FPS higher than the same load in a 6 inch Bbl. revolver.
the slower burning powder in a magnum works with enough barrel length.
.
three calibers it is offered in, .38 Spcl/.357 mag. .44 Spcl/.44 Mag, and .45 Colt. The Conversions to Cowboy SPecial which has a case length of .898 involves installing a shorter carrier to operate the cut down to that lenght case. I'm getting my Marlin 1894 converted to .45 Auto RIm. It will involve the shorter carrier and milling for the extra thick rim in the bore and to the extractor I have a 625 S&W in .45 ACP / Auto RIm to go with it.
It should be a 12 shooter.
Back to .357 Mag - on leverguns.com a test of a Marlin 1894 in .357 Mag.
chrono'd about 500 FPS higher than the same load in a 6 inch Bbl. revolver.
the slower burning powder in a magnum works with enough barrel length.
.
About 20 + years ago, I came across a used Savage Model 24V in .357 Max. over a 3" 20 gauge. It's not a revolver, but it's the only .357 Maximum I've ever fired. It makes a good woodsrunner gun. I reckon I'll keep it.
Sounds like a good combination. I would like to find one like it.
Sounds like a good combination. I would like to find one like it.
Fatelvis
Member
I use home-cast 220 grain bullets (Lyman 358627) in my DW 357 Supermag, for IHSMA shooting. It's basically a 44 magnum that shoots a little flatter. By far my favorite and most accurate revolver. I had Dan Wesson, (now owned by CZ) give it a trigger job, mount a Bomar rear sight, and install a taller front patridge sight that they narrowed considerably. Since it was all done by the factory, it is competition legal. I think only Freedom Arms' revolvers edge out the Dan Wessons in long range shooting, as in IHSMA. 357 Max....a great cartridge, too bad hotrodders loaded it wrong, and ruined it for the rest of us!
BlindJustice
Member
+1 for Drail - if it was to work in a Lever Action I would bet it couldn't fit
in a 1894 - then if you went to a 1895 which handles the centerfire rifle
cartridges, just get a .35 Rem. ???
in a 1894 - then if you went to a 1895 which handles the centerfire rifle
cartridges, just get a .35 Rem. ???
madcratebuilder
Member
That is my experience also. I used to load 125's as hot as I could and I have some flame cutting. I've slowed it down a bit.
Magnum Wheel Man
Member
My understanding as well... use 158 or heavier ( I like the 180's ) & with the Dan Wessons, being able to keep the barrel cylinder gap tight helps with the flame cutting...
my D.W. Supermag has taken several northern Whitetail deer... almost no flame cutting visible
also have 2 Contender barrels for the "max" as well...
my D.W. Supermag has taken several northern Whitetail deer... almost no flame cutting visible
also have 2 Contender barrels for the "max" as well...
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