.357 sig - is it popular?

[JimKirk]

I really like my 357 SIG ... a Glock 31 ... I have also been reloading this cartridge for around ten years and find it not different than any other bottle neck cartridge ... bullet choice is slightly more limited due the short neck ... but there are plenty of good bullets out there that shoot and reload very well ...

 

[PabloJ]

Bought an estate sale box of goodies. Ended up with a bucket (2-3 gallons worth) of 357 sig brass and about 120 rounds of target and HP ammo for it. Was wondering if I should try to just sell locally, or deal with the shipping.

Not real familiar with it, and can't say I've ever seen a gun chambered in it in my LGS.

The State Police in my state uses that caliber. I guess the only good thing about the caliber is that if you own a Glock so chambered you can buy .40S&W barrel for it. Does that help you see "the light"?
PS. I heard experts, so called say that with light weight bullets it equals .357 Magnum. I'm not sure what that means in practical terms? Maybe more blast and noise than say 9mm Luger +P?

 

[Deaf Smith]

A full house .357 magnum was known for many years to be THE man stopper. Even Jeff Cooper put it at the top as well as Massad Ayoob.

125 gr. JPG at 1450 isn't nothing to sneeze at. And some Sig loads do make that and that was the load that made the .357 magnums reputation.

Deaf

 

[Reloadron]

When the cartridge first came out there was no shortage of hype surrounding it, you absolutely without a doubt had to have one. The beauty was since the cartridge is a .40 S&W necked down to a .357 a simple barrel swap and you could shoot either. The idea was to be able to push a .357 bullet to extreme velocity from a semi-automatic pistol. The idea was not new or really all that novel considering a bottle neck pistol cartridge was nothing new. The 7.62 x 25 Tokarev comes to mind as far as velocity.

I know some of the members here are also familiar with the 38-45 Auto which went by several names. During the early 60s a fellow named Bo Clerke (pronounced Clark) necked down a .45 ACP to .357. A 1911 38 Super barrel was reamed to take the cartridge. Barrels were marketed or some rolled their own. RCBS sold the case forming dies and Clymer sold the reamers. The round was fairly hot and if I recall correctly originally designed as a target round. I started to build one over 20 years ago but ... Anyway, I still have the dies.

There was a time when the .357 Sig first was released it was popular and like anything new and popular ammunition and loading dies were hard to find. Today it seems I don't hear much about the cartridge.

Ron

 

[Rockrivr1]

A 357 Sig bbl came with my Sig 229 40 S&W. I've shot the 357 Sig and have a few boxes of ammo in the safe, but overall it wasn't anything special. At least to me anyway. I'll keep the bbl and ammo in case I ever want to shoot it again, but don't think that twill be anytime soon.

 

[M1key]

G33 is dead nuts accurate to 75 yards with Gold Dots. Love packing it and the G27.

Gold Dot or Corbon...muy estupendo

M

 

[Snowdog]

Did I mention Underwood's 125gr Gold Dot load averages 1511 FPS from a Glock 32?

1511 FPS (??!!!)

That's a whopping 634 ft. lbs of energy from a 4" barrel!
I'd imagine it would be more still from longer barrels such as the G31.

Underwood is the cat's meow right now. Their published velocities used to be 1450 FPS for this load. It is now listed at 1475 FPS. However, folks all over are finding they're matching those velocities and then some.
The Gold Dot they use holds up quite well even at these velocities.

If you are wanting a load that embodies the original intentions for this cartridge, Underwood does the job and cuts no corners doing so.

tnoutdoors9 tests Underwood's 357 Sig load

 

[Pokajabba]

Unfortunately it's not popular and it's no surprise because .40 S&W, it's cousin so to speak, is declining in popularity. The Sig is an amazing performer, better than 9mm and .40 S&W IMO, but it's expensive and I don't see a large following of it in the reloading groups probably because it's a bottlenecked round.

The Sig has been around 20+ years and it's so simple to get into by just buying a barrel for a .40 caliber pistol. If that's all it takes and after 20 years it hasn't joined the 9mm, .40, and .45 to become a part of the Big Four, it's not going to.

Heck, .380 is more popular than .357 Sig. It's not a dying round, because as long as .40 isn't dead, it will ride its coattails, but it's far from breaking through that ceiling. About the only thing that will ever change the .357 Sig's popularity would be if the military adopts it as the cartridge for their new service handgun. I don't see that happening.

I was strongly considering the .357 Sig as my carry piece, but the price and possible reloading work involved just drove me away. I'd only get into it if the price of factory ammo dropped to that of 9mm or a tad bit higher.

 

[Deaf Smith]

And like I said Snowdog, 1600 fps from a Storm Lake Glock 34 barrel for that 125 gr slug.

That's my Glock 34 with the Storm Lake .357 barrel.

Not bad at all. Durn near a M1 Carbine.

Deaf

 

[edmo01]

.357 sig - is it popular?

Of those in my circle of shooting friends, no. Just like GLOCK's 45 GAP, I don't know anyone shooting this caliber.

This doesn't mean it is a bad caliber or an inadequate caliber... Just not popular in my circles.

They really should have called it the 355 Sig.

Edmo

 

[Mainsail]

.357 Sig has become my primary round for daily carry. I'll occasionally carry my .45acp or 10mm guns but when I got the itch for a Sig Legion P229 I got it in .357 sig.

The pendulum swings and right now 9mm is very popular despite its history of marginal performance. After someone decides it's 'responsible' for a catastrophic failure again (whether it actually deserves it or not) it'll get dropped again and agencies and enthusiasts will look to the heavier calibers again. I don't dislike 9mm at all, but I no longer chase the trends and regardless of its popularity I simply don't trust 9mm to get the job done over the wider range of potential threats (2 legs or 4). The .357 sig round gives me that warm fuzzy that says if I need it, it'll make a mess.

Funny sidebar: S&W refers to it as .357 Auto while Sig Sauer refers to their round as .40 Auto.

 

[cougar1717]

357sig - when you sell the brass, it will probably be out of area and need to be shipped, unless you can find someone local who reloads for it. It's a great idea with great performance and is a piggyback caliber for many 40S&W handguns. However, economy, popularity, and firearms produced in the caliber are not it's strong suits. It's great if you're an aftermarket barrel manufacturer - the 357sig to 40S&W is probably the best selling conversion barrel.

 

[TfflHndn]

Widely popular, no. It has its niche, like the .327 FedMag, or the .41 Mag. I happen to like odd calibers, and I like the .357Sig. I have a P229 with extra barrels in 9mm and .40S&W, and of the three I enjoy shooting the .357SIG the most. It's really not difficult to reload, and no more expensive than other calibers when you do. But for non-reloaders the cost of ammo will turn many to the 9mm, .40 or .45 and that's a simple fact. I know a couple other guys who have a .357SIG but not many. Those that do, love them in my experience.

 

[ny32182]

I would say it is more popular than 10mm and definitely .45 GAP (are these still made? Serious question), but way less popular than any of the mainstream cartridges. Most well stocked gun shops probably have one or two and some ammo.

I bought a G32 and some brass a while back, but then reality hit me:

Upsides:

+200 or so FPS over 9mm

Downsides:

Brass is uncommon/likely has to be bought
Loading requires either two sizing operations or lubing
Bullet selection is much more limited than regular 9mm
Obviously if you are sticking to factory ammo, availability and cost are bad compared to everything else.
Capacity is down vs. 9mm
Lots of recoil vs. competing rounds

In the end, I hate this phrase, but it is the proverbial "solution in search of a problem".

Once remaining law enforcement gives it up (and they probably will) I fear it will be REALLY relegated to niche status, and it doesn't even have all the upsides that keep, say, 10mm afloat.

 

[Fiv3r]

I have often been interested in it, but I haven't seen it on a shelf around here in a long time. I actually found .327 easier, even if it was only flavor.

Cool round, but not exactly the easiest to find. I don't reload, so that would be a hang up for me.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I remember reloading some for my buddy back in the late '90. PITA. Also picky about neck tension and bullet olgive location and length, and cannelure vs OAL. He was not happy that his favorite bullets did not "line up". I have to explain to him that the bullet is harder than the case and attempting to crimp without a place to crimp, actually loosenes the cartridge.

Mike

 

[Blade First]

"125 gr. JPG at 1450 isn't nothing to sneeze at. And some Sig loads do make that and that was the load that made the .357 magnums reputation."

It's really that simple...an auto-pistol cartridge that meets or exceeds the stellar street performance of .357Mag revolver rounds out of a 4" barrel...or, in the case of two of my SIGs, 3.89 inches.

Shooting water jugs at 50yds. will give even newbies the sense of how flat, fast and powerful the round is.

And, if you desire self-defense ammo in your working pistol, why would you not think thirteen or more rounds of the same weight bullet of the same design moving at the same speed aren't better than five, six, seven or eight rounds of .357Mag out of a revolver? If you can say 'spare mag', think of the multiple.

In my area, .357SIG target and self-defense rounds are readily available; maybe in your area, too. It's a caliber well worth trying if you're inclined to experiment. I don't reload because there's not enough time but it doesn't keep .357SIG from being my favorite medium caliber.

 

[rswartsell]

From my impressions, right with .41 mag as a good but UN-popular round dying slowly on the vine.

 

[Flfiremedic]

A full house .357 magnum was known for many years to be THE man stopper. Even Jeff Cooper put it at the top as well as Massad Ayoob.

125 gr. JPG at 1450 isn't nothing to sneeze at. And some Sig loads do make that and that was the load that made the .357 magnums reputation.

Deaf

This ^

Deaf knows what he is talking about. It's a phenomenal round, and if you are willing to spend the time...and yes money, it's as good as it gets for CCW. Why? Simple you can use it in the same semi-compacts that are typically carried in 9mm/40 cal (G19/23 and SIG P229 come to mind), in a hotter round with a recoil levels between 9mm and 40 cal. My choices for things that go bump in the night are 45 caps and 357 SIG.
Prepare for haters, 9mm fanboys, and various others to begin attacking.

 

[Chuck R.]

Well, this is about the 3rd .357 SIG thread I've seen in a couple days, so I finally broke down and ordered a barrel for one of my HKs to see what all the fuss is or isn't about. Actually found a good deal on a barrel for $156, so I figured what the heck.

Also going to order the tooling and dies this week to set up my Dillon. I mean, what's one more caliber to reload for right? If it works out I'll probably go ahead and order another barrel for my SIG 226.

I'm intrigued by the idea of a 9mm "Super" for the cost of a barrel.

Chuck

 

[Swing]

definitely .45 GAP (are these still made? Serious question)

Glock still lists said on their site. It was adopted by several law enforcement agencies (e.g., Florida Highway Patrol). But, beyond that, I'm not aware of any other manufacturer that has bothered with it and it seems the shooting public more or less ignored it.

 

[Deaf Smith]

This ^

Deaf knows what he is talking about.

Actually with Double Tap 125 gr. jhp load from my Glock 34 with Storm Lake barrel you get 1600 fps (thanks to its 5.31 barrel length.)

And 147s almost make what a .357 magnum gets for the 158 gr slug from a six inch barrel.

Deaf

 

[Polar Express]

OK, so to some this might be a silly post/question, but I'm trying to wrap my mind around this.

I can easily comprehend the high energy achieved, given the "E=M(V-squared)" formula.

I can also see the tests on youtube with 124-125 grain projectiles from the various 9mm offerings.

It APPEARS to me, that the obvious source of the increased velocity is the larger powder charge that you can put in the necked-down .40 case. (more powder=more energy to push the bullet down the bbl. (if I'm wrong here, please correct me)

So, did Sig choose the .357" projectile BECAUSE of the 'legendary' performance of the .357 mag? Or, did anyone do any testing using a slightly larger diameter (say... .380/9mm) bullet?

I have a hard time getting my mind over the 'diameter of the projectile' being relevant, even though I've seen a bunch (by now) of the gel blocks on the internet with cavities from 9mm side by side with that of a .45 (a significantly larger dia projectile)

Given the statement in the previous paragraph, are there advantages to a bullet that will hold itself together, yet expand more? Has anyone been able to make one to test?

I'm becoming more interested in the external size of the G19, (for a great balance of 'small enough to conceal', & 'large enough to keep a full grip on for training')... and Glock also makes the G32 chambered in .357 Sig which is the same external size (lots of holster options never hurt)

Even if you get a 19 to train on, you can do some final dust-up on the 32, and you have now a cheap way to train to your hearts content, yet carry something with a bit more juice.

I'm coming from a .45 ACP, so I always drank the 'larger bullet' Kool-aid, and I'm trying to open my mind to all options, without just over-analyzing this to the point of paralysis.

Is there something that I'm missing?

Thanks for the thread, and thoughts folks!

PE

 

[Mainsail]

The big advantage that hasn't been mentioned is that the .357Sig is a bottleneck cartridge, so feeding issues almost never happen. I can 'break in' with far fewer rounds before I am satisfied.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Given the statement in the previous paragraph, are there advantages to a bullet that will hold itself together, yet expand more?

It's called more volume of the crunch cavity. By expanding faster and larger in diameter you get significant increase of the size of the cavity formed. Even the FBI's "protocols" state size of the bullet matters (after adequate penetration.)

So, did Sig choose the .357" projectile BECAUSE of the 'legendary' performance of the .357 mag? Or, did anyone do any testing using a slightly larger diameter (say... .380/9mm) bullet?

They chose it cause it would fit in a 9 mm frame handgun, like the .40 S&W, and deliver .357 magnum performance.

I'm coming from a .45 ACP, so I always drank the 'larger bullet' Kool-aid

It ain't Kool-aid. Larger size bullets, as long as they produce adequate penetration, give larger crush cavities.

Deaf